Education Probs in US

polaris_x · February 2011

sorry ... i don't have the time to go into the sociology of the myth factor here ... but the reality of the situation paints a different picture ... sure, there are thousands of examples of success but for every one of those there are probably twice as many of people getting stonewalled or denied opportunities ...

shawshank - that's a great story ... i wish there were more ...

and yes - i do believe education levels are purposefully set ... just look at where the US ranks in education vs. the rest of the world ... being the sole superpower and richest country - there is no excuse for the US not to lead the world in education and yet they are so far behind ... also, if you account for the education gap - it's even worse ...

Shawshank · February 2011

polaris_x wrote:

just look at where the US ranks in education vs. the rest of the world ... being the sole superpower and richest country - there is no excuse for the US not to lead the world in education and yet they are so far behind ... also, if you account for the education gap - it's even worse ...

I agree 1,000% with this statement. There is no excuse for it. None whatsoever. I fully believe we should invest much much more in education, whether some people see doing so as the "S" word or not is really irrelevant. I believe we should make schools much more competitive, and make them strive for excellence and reward that excellence. That's one thing I love about the schools my kids go to. They are ranked extremely well in not only Texas, but on a national scale, and out of district people pay big money to have their kids go to school here.

Jeanwah · February 2011

I'm very surprised that the No Child Left Behind act hasn't been mentioned yet. This GW Bush era Act continues and it's the major reason the public education system fails our kids and teachers alike. Anyone affected would agree that it's done more harm than good to education in general.

mikepegg44 · February 2011

polaris_x wrote:

sorry ... i don't have the time to go into the sociology of the myth factor here ... but the reality of the situation paints a different picture ... sure, there are thousands of examples of success but for every one of those there are probably twice as many of people getting stonewalled or denied opportunities ...

shawshank - that's a great story ... i wish there were more ...

and yes - i do believe education levels are purposefully set ... just look at where the US ranks in education vs. the rest of the world ... being the sole superpower and richest country - there is no excuse for the US not to lead the world in education and yet they are so far behind ... also, if you account for the education gap - it's even worse ...

you can do the quick version, I have a degree in sociology. I understand and have read many of the same things you do. The issue I have always had with sociology as a "science" is that the generalizations that come from studying the group rarely apply to the individual. That being said it is hard for any sociologist to accurately discuss the American dream...myth or not...anyone who works hard can achieve better things than if they were to give up, and that is just a universal rule.

I am sorry you think the US purposely makes people stupid...and there is no excuse for the US to not lead the world...but I can guarantee you we differ on why we think it trails behind. It certainly isn't funding, the countries ahead of the US have a different CULTURE when it comes to education, they value it and it shows in their work. That is why I asked the question to begin with, is it the individual participants fault or the system itself...there are definite problems but those can certainly be overcome(to a limit that is for certain) if one works hard enough at their education...

but as judge smails put it, the world needs ditch diggers too.

polaris_x · February 2011

mikepegg44 wrote:

you can do the quick version, I have a degree in sociology. I understand and have read many of the same things you do. The issue I have always had with sociology as a "science" is that the generalizations that come from studying the group rarely apply to the individual. That being said it is hard for any sociologist to accurately discuss the American dream...myth or not...anyone who works hard can achieve better things than if they were to give up, and that is just a universal rule.

I am sorry you think the US purposely makes people stupid...and there is no excuse for the US to not lead the world...but I can guarantee you we differ on why we think it trails behind. It certainly isn't funding, the countries ahead of the US have a different CULTURE when it comes to education, they value it and it shows in their work. That is why I asked the question to begin with, is it the individual participants fault or the system itself...there are definite problems but those can certainly be overcome(to a limit that is for certain) if one works hard enough at their education...

but as judge smails put it, the world needs ditch diggers too.

haha ... i don't think there is a quick version ... but lets say race, class, gender dynamics play a role in opportunities ... is the glass ceiling a myth for women? ... i don't think so ...

no need to apologize for what my beliefs are ... it's how i see it ... you can't continue to send people overseas to ruin other countries if the populace was aware ...

but to your point ... i would put much of the blame on the system ... every child at the very least should be afforded the same base level of education that should allow them to attend post-secondary institutions ... sure, how far they get should be proportional to the work they put in ... but as you know ... that isn't the reality i am seeing ...

now, i may not live in the US ... but I do and have spent a lot of time there ... i've been to well over 40 states ... from big cities to small nowhere towns ... north, east, south, west ... all over ... and my observations have formed my beliefs ...

Blockhead · February 2011

polaris_x wrote:

haha ... i don't think there is a quick version ... but lets say race, class, gender dynamics play a role in opportunities ... is the glass ceiling a myth for women? ... i don't think so ...

no need to apologize for what my beliefs are ... it's how i see it ... you can't continue to send people overseas to ruin other countries if the populace was aware ...

but to your point ... i would put much of the blame on the system ... every child at the very least should be afforded the same base level of education that should allow them to attend post-secondary institutions ... sure, how far they get should be proportional to the work they put in ... but as you know ... that isn't the reality i am seeing ...

now, i may not live in the US ... but I do and have spent a lot of time there ... i've been to well over 40 states ... from big cities to small nowhere towns ... north, east, south, west ... all over ... and my observations have formed my beliefs ...

I'll ask again what inner city public school did you attend and where did you make house visits. Its really easy to blame the system when you have never be in it. I asked my wife last night and she said that before she was a teacher should would have been blaming the system/schools/teachers. But the reality is at least at most inner city schools is that the parents don't care about their childs education. They have to give out free grocery cards to get the parents to come to parent teacher conferences and most of the time the parents take their gift cards and leave. My wife and I bought her entire 6th grade class all of their school supplies (folders/paper/pencils/etc..) because the parents think its the gov. job to provide all that. How is a kid supposed to succeed in school if their parents won't buy them some paper and pencils. My wife told me last week that an 11year old 6th grade in her class is pregnant. I guess thats the school's fault to??? The systems could be alot better than it is but no matter how good the school system is you can't make/force the students to care/learn. Maybe if these parents actually had to pay some money for their kids education they would actually care.

markin ball · February 2011

I am responsible for my child's education. I don't give a crap about public vs. private, who gets more funding or who got a rich daddy. The buck stops here. Now, that being said, we as a society should do all we can to promote an educated populace. Smarter people make better decisions and get a better society. You can even raise my taxes if that will help. "I am mine" but we are all in this together, too.

polaris_x · February 2011

Shawshank wrote:

They are ranked extremely well in not only Texas, but on a national scale, and out of district people pay big money to have their kids go to school here.

exactly ...

whygohome · February 2011

It's our culture. Kids don't want to learn; they are not interested in history, literature, sociology, psychology, etc. They are interested in Facebook, MTV, what celebrities are doing, "reality" TV, idiots on the beach in Jersey, etc. It is our culture.

I teach at a university, and the courses I teach are mostly made up of freshman and sophomores. Last semester, I was happy to see that out of 32 students the large majority were not going into a business-related field. Most were going into the sciences, or the medical field. I know this may change, but it was nice to see - we need more doctors, we need more scientists. We do not need more hedge fund managers; we do not need more Goldman Sachs drones. Unfortunately, I feel that a handful, or more, of these students will change their minds when they see where the $$ is. $$$ is God.

I cannot believe that I am at the point of asking students, and reminding them, to put the fucking phones away, or to not check their facebook pages every minute if they use a laptop. I see a lack of personal responsibility; I see a false attitude of entitlement; I see a lack of accountability; I see a lack of awareness; I see a lack of civic engagement. I asked my classes if anyone watched or read the State of the Union: only 4 or 5 students did. They do not have any clue as to what is going on in this country, nor does anyone else. And why should people be aware of what is going on in their own country? Why would they be when celebrities are dancing on TV? Why would they be when a handful of morons are parading around a beach town? Why would they be when there is a sale at the mall?

I know some of you might say, "well, it's not all their fault." Of course it isn't, but I wanted to inform everyone on what I see. The youth of today - mainly those in high school and college - are the result of a culture so saturated with materialism, consumerism, gluttony, selfishness, a warped sense of individualism, docile behavior, and so on.

We are all to blame. This is the culture we have created, or better yet, this is the culture we have allowed to be created for us. We blindly follow because we can accumulate all the wealth and materials that we desire and that is all that matters. We feed our insatiable appetites with material possessions without once thinking to check the tag to see that every damn thing we buy is made in China, or Thailand, or Indonesia, etc., likely in sweat shops.
The obesity rate in this country is a staggering and disgusting 32%, and this is in direct correlation to our lazy (physically and intellectually) culture. (By the way, obesity related illnesses count for roughly 200 billion health care costs wasted per year). It makes me sick.

It is OUR fault.

lukin2006 · February 2011

George Carlins take on Education...the man knew his shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q

Jeanwah · February 2011

whygohome wrote:

It's our culture. Kids don't want to learn; they are not interested in history, literature, sociology, psychology, etc. They are interested in Facebook, MTV, what celebrities are doing, "reality" TV, idiots on the beach in Jersey, etc. It is our culture.

I teach at a university, and the courses I teach are mostly made up of freshman and sophomores. Last semester, I was happy to see that out of 32 students the large majority were not going into a business-related field. Most were going into the sciences, or the medical field. I know this may change, but it was nice to see - we need more doctors, we need more scientists. We do not need more hedge fund managers; we do not need more Goldman Sachs drones. Unfortunately, I feel that a handful, or more, of these students will change their minds when they see where the $$ is. $$$ is God.

I cannot believe that I am at the point of asking students, and reminding them, to put the fucking phones away, or to not check their facebook pages every minute if they use a laptop. I see a lack of personal responsibility; I see a false attitude of entitlement; I see a lack of accountability; I see a lack of awareness; I see a lack of civic engagement. I asked my classes if anyone watched or read the State of the Union: only 4 or 5 students did. They do not have any clue as to what is going on in this country, nor does anyone else. And why should people be aware of what is going on in their own country? Why would they be when celebrities are dancing on TV? Why would they be when a handful of morons are parading around a beach town? Why would they be when there is a sale at the mall?

I know some of you might say, "well, it's not all their fault." Of course it isn't, but I wanted to inform everyone on what I see. The youth of today - mainly those in high school and college - are the result of a culture so saturated with materialism, consumerism, gluttony, selfishness, a warped sense of individualism, docile behavior, and so on.

We are all to blame. This is the culture we have created, or better yet, this is the culture we have allowed to be created for us. We blindly follow because we can accumulate all the wealth and materials that we desire and that is all that matters. We feed our insatiable appetites with material possessions without once thinking to check the tag to see that every damn thing we buy is made in China, or Thailand, or Indonesia, etc., likely in sweat shops.
The obesity rate in this country is a staggering and disgusting 32%, and this is in direct correlation to our lazy (physically and intellectually) culture. (By the way, obesity related illnesses count for roughly 200 billion health care costs wasted per year). It makes me sick.

It is OUR fault.

While I agree it's our fault for being distracted with being a consumer over being simply human, it's the societal norms, consumerism and digital ways of the current age that is bluffing kids into thinking that "belonging" means more than thinking for one's self. It's not just what we've created, it's about being content with who we are, over trying to "fit in". I think that's what the true bottom line is: conformity vs. being true to one's self.

mikepegg44 · February 2011

polaris_x wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

you can do the quick version, I have a degree in sociology. I understand and have read many of the same things you do. The issue I have always had with sociology as a "science" is that the generalizations that come from studying the group rarely apply to the individual. That being said it is hard for any sociologist to accurately discuss the American dream...myth or not...anyone who works hard can achieve better things than if they were to give up, and that is just a universal rule.

I am sorry you think the US purposely makes people stupid...and there is no excuse for the US to not lead the world...but I can guarantee you we differ on why we think it trails behind. It certainly isn't funding, the countries ahead of the US have a different CULTURE when it comes to education, they value it and it shows in their work. That is why I asked the question to begin with, is it the individual participants fault or the system itself...there are definite problems but those can certainly be overcome(to a limit that is for certain) if one works hard enough at their education...

but as judge smails put it, the world needs ditch diggers too.

haha ... i don't think there is a quick version ... but lets say race, class, gender dynamics play a role in opportunities ... is the glass ceiling a myth for women? ... i don't think so ...

no need to apologize for what my beliefs are ... it's how i see it ... you can't continue to send people overseas to ruin other countries if the populace was aware ...

but to your point ... i would put much of the blame on the system ... every child at the very least should be afforded the same base level of education that should allow them to attend post-secondary institutions ... sure, how far they get should be proportional to the work they put in ... but as you know ... that isn't the reality i am seeing ...

now, i may not live in the US ... but I do and have spent a lot of time there ... i've been to well over 40 states ... from big cities to small nowhere towns ... north, east, south, west ... all over ... and my observations have formed my beliefs ...

no I think the glass ceiling was/is a real thing. I am not denying that socioeconomic class puts you at a disadvantage, I think that is very real. But you cannot apply a group dynamic to an individual thing. the american dream cannot be realized by groups of people. If you work hard at anything you do in life, your place will almost always be better off than when you started. do crappy things happen to people, yes, but that doesn't mean the american dream is a myth. There are only a few countries in the world where a person can be born as a poor kid from the country and grow up to be president. Applying the American dream dynamics to a group is like measuring how fully your stomach is because of what other people ate. I hope that makes sense to people, it does to me!!

Jeanwah · February 2011

This is great.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M4tdMsg3ts

haffajappa · February 2011

Jeanwah wrote:

This is great.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M4tdMsg3ts

wow... she's got got guts!
good for her!

Jeanwah · February 2011

Talk about problems...

http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/22/news/ec ... um=twitter

In an effort to close a yawning budget deficit, Michigan has approved a proposal to drastically shrink Detroit's troubled school system over the next few years.

The plan calls for the closure of 70 schools, which would cut the number of schools in the district in half by 2014, leaving only 72 public schools in Detroit. The closures would be on top of the 59 that were shuttered last year.

As a result, high school class sizes would jump to 60 students each over the next few years.

mikepegg44 · February 2011

Jeanwah wrote:

Talk about problems...

http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/22/news/ec ... um=twitter

In an effort to close a yawning budget deficit, Michigan has approved a proposal to drastically shrink Detroit's troubled school system over the next few years.

The plan calls for the closure of 70 schools, which would cut the number of schools in the district in half by 2014, leaving only 72 public schools in Detroit. The closures would be on top of the 59 that were shuttered last year.

As a result, high school class sizes would jump to 60 students each over the next few years.

my first history class in college was 400 people, didn't stop me from learning the material.
It certainly is not ideal for those kids involved but Detroit is slowly turning into thunderdome...

MasterBlaster for Mayor? anyone?

haffajappa · February 2011

mikepegg44 wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

Talk about problems...

http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/22/news/ec ... um=twitter

In an effort to close a yawning budget deficit, Michigan has approved a proposal to drastically shrink Detroit's troubled school system over the next few years.

The plan calls for the closure of 70 schools, which would cut the number of schools in the district in half by 2014, leaving only 72 public schools in Detroit. The closures would be on top of the 59 that were shuttered last year.

As a result, high school class sizes would jump to 60 students each over the next few years.

my first history class in college was 400 people, didn't stop me from learning the material.
It certainly is not ideal for those kids involved but Detroit is slowly turning into thunderdome...

MasterBlaster for Mayor? anyone?

i think there is a significant difference between elementary/high school and university though :shock:

Education Probs in US

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