US rejects UN call to abolish death penalty

mikepegg44 wrote:

playing a little bit of devil's advocate here, because I do believe that the United States is obligated to take into consideration the feelings and recommendations of other countries.
If you start immediately enacting recommendations by other countries, at what point do you stop bowing to international pressure? A line in the sand needs to be drawn or we are no longer an autonomous country. I am not saying this is the right line, but some of these recommendations were not about human rights but about political cock-fighting. One of Cuba's was for us to release cuban citizens that were spying.
It will be interesting when we can see a complete list of all the recommendations. But one of them said that we have INHUMANE CONDITIONS in our JAILS. What the hell? What more do people want than 3 meals a day, a rough over people's heads, the ability to go to school, cable television, a rec yard, a weight room, a commissary, the ability to read books from all over the world, e-mail, etc...I am not saying I want to go there or anything, but for someone to call our Prison system inhumane is kidding themselves. Are some jails over-crowded...yes? but that does not lead to inhumane treatment or conditions.
I don't know, I do believe the united states has moved to a position of trying to understand and listen to what other countries would like to see from us, considering the Bush administrations handling of the UN, we have come a long way in a short time. But listening doesn't always mean having to agree. We are an interesting country, often times I liken it to someone picking on my sister. We can do it all day long, but as soon as someone outside the family starts to do it we get defensive whether we are right or wrong

Drowned Out wrote:

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mikepegg44 wrote:

playing a little bit of devil's advocate here, because I do believe that the United States is obligated to take into consideration the feelings and recommendations of other countries.
If you start immediately enacting recommendations by other countries, at what point do you stop bowing to international pressure? A line in the sand needs to be drawn or we are no longer an autonomous country. I am not saying this is the right line, but some of these recommendations were not about human rights but about political cock-fighting. One of Cuba's was for us to release cuban citizens that were spying.
It will be interesting when we can see a complete list of all the recommendations. But one of them said that we have INHUMANE CONDITIONS in our JAILS. What the hell? What more do people want than 3 meals a day, a rough over people's heads, the ability to go to school, cable television, a rec yard, a weight room, a commissary, the ability to read books from all over the world, e-mail, etc...I am not saying I want to go there or anything, but for someone to call our Prison system inhumane is kidding themselves. Are some jails over-crowded...yes? but that does not lead to inhumane treatment or conditions.
I don't know, I do believe the united states has moved to a position of trying to understand and listen to what other countries would like to see from us, considering the Bush administrations handling of the UN, we have come a long way in a short time. But listening doesn't always mean having to agree. We are an interesting country, often times I liken it to someone picking on my sister. We can do it all day long, but as soon as someone outside the family starts to do it we get defensive whether we are right or wrong

Maybe you’d reconsider that statement, knowing the EU is refusing to send prisoners to your country due to inhumane treatment?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-c-f ... 41145.html

Or that the major human rights agencies disagree with you?
http://www.hrw.org/wr2k1/usa/index.html
http://www.hrw.org/en/by-issue/publications/2365
http://www.amnesty.ca/usa/supermax.php

Not sure if it was a consideration in these recommendations, but the US has the worlds largest (reported) prison population per capita….HALF of those incarcerated are there for non-violent marijuana convictions. When you consider the imbalance in stats of drug arrests between whites and minorities, you are left with the realization that there are a huge number of people incarcerated under inhumane conditions (by international standards), who committed no violent act, and were likely targeted for arrest based on racial profiling (which is a human rights violation). Add to that the fact that these prisons are privately owned, and for-profit....yikes.

mikepegg44 wrote:

. . . But one of them said that we have INHUMANE CONDITIONS in our JAILS. What the hell? What more do people want than 3 meals a day, a rough over people's heads, the ability to go to school, cable television, a rec yard, a weight room, a commissary, the ability to read books from all over the world, e-mail, etc..

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

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Jason P wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

. . . But one of them said that we have INHUMANE CONDITIONS in our JAILS. What the hell? What more do people want than 3 meals a day, a rough over people's heads, the ability to go to school, cable television, a rec yard, a weight room, a commissary, the ability to read books from all over the world, e-mail, etc..

I still think it is kind of dumb that we put weight rooms in the middle of prisons so they can basically bulk up to WWE-size proportions by the time they are released in 5 years. Shouldn't we be feeding them gruel and injecting them with estrogen?

how would you recommend they blow off their stress and avoid major health complications? exercise is the best way. and for rehabilitation, which is the goal of most prisons, it requires physical and mental health, and people can not stay physically healthy if they are not allowed to exercise or lift weights. would you rather pay for all of the obesity and diabetes related health issues and complications, or allow them to maintain some form of physical health so that the tax payer burden of health maintainence costs less over time?

edit to add, allowing them to exercise IS humane.

mikepegg44 wrote:

have you seen locked up abroad on the Nat'l Geographic channel? how about read the midnight express?
Prison is a punishment. But here, you can actually better yourself in prison IF YOU CHOOSE TO, cannot say that about everywhere.

mikepegg44 wrote:

people aren't kept in super max prisons with 23 hours of solitary for fun or because it was an unlucky draw...they earn it somewhere, somehow.

Courts don’t assign convicted criminals to supermax units. Instead, the decision to confine prisoners under these conditions is generally made by the relevant department of corrections or by prison officials at some point after sentencing. Evidence suggests that prisoners are isolated for a wide range of reasons, many of which are not related to the dangers they pose or to the risk that they might attempt to escape.

A number of states have moved all prisoners facing execution into supermax units, regardless of their individual disciplinary records. In Wabash, Indiana prisoners have been assigned to supermax detention for acts of insolence toward prison staff. Others have reportedly been confined in supermax units because of overcrowding or because they complained about prison conditions. Women in Valley State Prison in California have alleged that they were assigned to the supermax unit, or threatened with assignment, if they complained about sexual abuse by guards. Some prisoners have reportedly been assigned to supermax units because of their political affiliations, although such allegations are difficult to verify because the allowable grounds for confinement are so broad.

They typically spent all their waking and sleeping hours locked alone or with a cellmate in small sometimes windowless cells from which they were released for only a few hours each week for solitary recreation or showers. Super-max prisoners had almost no access to educational or recreational activities or other sources of mental stimulation and were handcuffed, shackled and escorted by officers whenever they left their cells.

Amnesty International recognizes that it is sometimes necessary to segregate prisoners for the safety of others or for their own protection. However, many aspects of conditions in US supermax facilities violate international human rights standards and in some facilities constitute cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. Prolonged isolation in conditions of reduced sensory stimulation can cause severe physical and psychological damage