ahmadinejad sparks mass UN walk out
Comments
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This thread is awesome! Usually the conspiracy theories are just sort of hazy and abstract, kinda floating around the edge of the discussion, but now we've got some straight-up illuminati/free-mason craziness in the mix. It's like the watching the fucking History Channel!you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane0
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On a serious note, Five, I completely agree with you. People want to believe that the US is somehow a perpetual perpetrator, that all the bad stuff out there can at the end of the day be brought back to US guilt, so they'll raise all these questions, and selectively ignore all sorts of stuff so they can get from point A to point B, just like they planned, even if they won't/can't admit that to themselves.
What's the saying though? The simplest explanation is usually correct? Well, in this case the simplest explanation is that terrorists hijacked some planes and flew them into buildings, with, at worst, an assist from US government negligence. Period.you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane0 -
yosi wrote:in this case the simplest explanation is that terrorists hijacked some planes and flew them into buildings, with, at worst, an assist from US government negligence. Period.
Possibly. Though if it was down to a simple case of negligence then those guilty of such a huge breach of responsibilty should be brought to account.
Though it still doesn't answer the hundreds of lies and omissions found in the official government approved 9/11 comission report.
It's easy to just dismiss those asking questions as crazy conspiracy theorists, but there are still serious questions that remain unanswered.0 -
Byrnzie wrote:Electric_Delta wrote:Also, he has openly proclaimed his desire to destroy Israel!
No he hasn't.
Yes he did.Bristow, VA (5/13/10)0 -
Electric_Delta wrote:Byrnzie wrote:Electric_Delta wrote:Also, he has openly proclaimed his desire to destroy Israel!
No he hasn't.
Yes he did.
No he didn't.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... omment.usa
Jonathan Steele
The Guardian, Friday 2 June 2006
'...Ask anyone in Washington, London or Tel Aviv if they can cite any phrase uttered by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the chances are high they will say he wants Israel "wiped off the map".
Again it is four short words, though the distortion is worse than in the Khrushchev case. The remarks are not out of context. They are wrong, pure and simple. Ahmadinejad never said them. Farsi speakers have pointed out that he was mistranslated. The Iranian president was quoting an ancient statement by Iran's first Islamist leader, the late Ayatollah Khomeini, that "this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time" just as the Shah's regime in Iran had vanished.
He was not making a military threat. He was calling for an end to the occupation of Jerusalem at some point in the future. The "page of time" phrase suggests he did not expect it to happen soon. There was no implication that either Khomeini, when he first made the statement, or Ahmadinejad, in repeating it, felt it was imminent, or that Iran would be involved in bringing it about.'0 -
Absolutely correct, accountability and responsibility are key in anything in life.. but with that said, simply filling the void of unknown answers doesn't really amount to much either. Just as many claim the government over-reacted to 9-11 with the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq, it seems many citizens reacted in the same manner in the opposite direction, and both have the same foundations.. .misguided anger, resentment and misinformation. And for the record, I don't think simply dismissing people asking questions is the legitimate way to categorize such things, I think it's more to the point of those claiming the government actually did it or had their hand it in as their final answer are the one's being dismissed. Absolute answers in the face of uncertainty is not a rational, logical outcome no matter what the issue.Byrnzie wrote:Possibly. Though if it was down to a simple case of negligence then those guilty of such a huge breach of responsibilty should be brought to account.
Though it still doesn't answer the hundreds of lies and omissions found in the official government approved 9/11 comission report.
It's easy to just dismiss those asking questions as crazy conspiracy theorists, but there are still serious questions that remain unanswered.CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis0 -
New York Times offers a correction
yeah, i'm sure it was just a mistake assholes. the original headline was Iran Leader says U.S. planned 9/11 attacks.
- Corrections
Published: September 24, 2010
A headline on Friday with an article about an incendiary speech in the United Nations General Assembly by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran summarized his remarks about the Sept. 11 terror attacks incorrectly. In his speech, Mr. Ahmadinejad asserted various theories about the origin of the attacks, including the possibility that they had been planned by the United States. He did not say that the United States had planned the attacks.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/25/pageo ... .html?_r=30 -
Byrnzie wrote:What are people's opinions on the following remarks regarding 9/11?:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/report-neta ... l-1.244044
Netanyahu says 9/11 terror attacks good for Israel
According to Ma'ariv, Netanyahu said Israel is 'benefiting from attack' as it 'swung American public opinion.'
By Haaretz Service and Reuters
The Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv on Wednesday reported that Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu told an audience at Bar Ilan university that the September 11, 2001 terror attacks had been beneficial for Israel.
"We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq," Ma'ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events "swung American public opinion in our favor."
Netanyahu reportedly made the comments during a conference at Bar-Ilan University on the division of Jerusalem as part of a peace deal with the Palestinians.
Speaking Wednesday at a news conference on the Iran threat, Netanyahu compared Ahmadinejad to Adolf Hitler and likened Tehran's nuclear program to the threat the Nazis posed to Europe in the late 1930s.
Netanyahu said Iran differed from the Nazis in one vital respect, explaining that "where that [Nazi] regime embarked on a global conflict before it developed nuclear weapons," he said. "This regime [Iran] is developing nuclear weapons before it embarks on a global conflict."
i'm not surprised at anything that comes out of that maniacs mouth. this is afterall the same slimebag who said "the U.S. is easily manipulated, the world won’t say a thing. The world will say we’re defending.”0 -
TriumphantAngel wrote:New York Times offers a correction
yeah, i'm sure it was just a mistake assholes. the original headline was Iran Leader says U.S. planned 9/11 attacks.
- Corrections
Published: September 24, 2010
A headline on Friday with an article about an incendiary speech in the United Nations General Assembly by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran summarized his remarks about the Sept. 11 terror attacks incorrectly. In his speech, Mr. Ahmadinejad asserted various theories about the origin of the attacks, including the possibility that they had been planned by the United States. He did not say that the United States had planned the attacks.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/25/pageo ... .html?_r=3
I bet this wasn't a headline though, right? It was probably on page 24 in the bottom corner. So, as with the bullshit claim that Ahmadinejad called for Israel to wiped off the map, we'll be hearing this recent nonsense repeated again and again by those people who swallow everything the mainstream media tells them.0 -
:evil: :evil:TriumphantAngel wrote:New York Times offers a correction
yeah, i'm sure it was just a mistake assholes. the original headline was Iran Leader says U.S. planned 9/11 attacks.
- Corrections
Published: September 24, 2010
A headline on Friday with an article about an incendiary speech in the United Nations General Assembly by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran summarized his remarks about the Sept. 11 terror attacks incorrectly. In his speech, Mr. Ahmadinejad asserted various theories about the origin of the attacks, including the possibility that they had been planned by the United States. He did not say that the United States had planned the attacks.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/25/pageo ... .html?_r=3
Infuriating.
"we made a little boo-boo. totally by accident, we changed the whole context of what was said, and ran with it as the headline".
what a fucking JOKE.0 -
Drowned Out wrote:
:evil: :evil:TriumphantAngel wrote:New York Times offers a correction
yeah, i'm sure it was just a mistake assholes. the original headline was Iran Leader says U.S. planned 9/11 attacks.
- Corrections
Published: September 24, 2010
A headline on Friday with an article about an incendiary speech in the United Nations General Assembly by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran summarized his remarks about the Sept. 11 terror attacks incorrectly. In his speech, Mr. Ahmadinejad asserted various theories about the origin of the attacks, including the possibility that they had been planned by the United States. He did not say that the United States had planned the attacks.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/25/pageo ... .html?_r=3
Infuriating.
"we made a little boo-boo. totally by accident, we changed the whole context of what was said, and ran with it as the headline".
what a fucking JOKE.
Yup.
As if to make my point for me, lol.
Thank you mainstream media for agreeing to go ahead and discredit yourself.
:roll:If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?0 -
What is so funny about the furor you all seem to be working yourselves into is that when it comes down to it there really isn't that much of a difference between saying that the US government perpetrated 9/11, and endorsing such a view as one of three possible explanations, as if it is equally plausible and deserving of investigation. Ahmadinejad likes to dress up his lunacies in this rhetoric of academic skepticism, as in "there are these three theories about 9/11, and each of them are valid, and deserve to be studied," or "there are all these different theories about whether the holocaust happened, or about how many Jews were killed, etc., etc., and they are all valid, and deserve equal recognition and investigation." Perhaps this isn't as morally repugnant as simply asserting wild 9/11 conspiracies as fact, or outright holocaust denial, but it is certainly not that much further down the ladder. What is so funny is that some of you are so easily taken in by such a worn-out, thread-bare, and frankly childish rhetorical trick.you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane0
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would you expect anything less from a newspaper like the new york timesDrowned Out wrote:
:evil: :evil:TriumphantAngel wrote:New York Times offers a correction
yeah, i'm sure it was just a mistake assholes. the original headline was Iran Leader says U.S. planned 9/11 attacks.
- Corrections
Published: September 24, 2010
A headline on Friday with an article about an incendiary speech in the United Nations General Assembly by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran summarized his remarks about the Sept. 11 terror attacks incorrectly. In his speech, Mr. Ahmadinejad asserted various theories about the origin of the attacks, including the possibility that they had been planned by the United States. He did not say that the United States had planned the attacks.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/25/pageo ... .html?_r=3
Infuriating.
"we made a little boo-boo. totally by accident, we changed the whole context of what was said, and ran with it as the headline".
what a fucking JOKE.Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?0 -
i'm not taken in by anything. i'm more interested in facts. the fact is that he didn't say that the United States had planned the attacks, which is what the article said.yosi wrote:What is so funny about the furor you all seem to be working yourselves into is that when it comes down to it there really isn't that much of a difference between saying that the US government perpetrated 9/11, and endorsing such a view as one of three possible explanations, as if it is equally plausible and deserving of investigation. Ahmadinejad likes to dress up his lunacies in this rhetoric of academic skepticism, as in "there are these three theories about 9/11, and each of them are valid, and deserve to be studied," or "there are all these different theories about whether the holocaust happened, or about how many Jews were killed, etc., etc., and they are all valid, and deserve equal recognition and investigation." Perhaps this isn't as morally repugnant as simply asserting wild 9/11 conspiracies as fact, or outright holocaust denial, but it is certainly not that much further down the ladder. What is so funny is that some of you are so easily taken in by such a worn-out, thread-bare, and frankly childish rhetorical trick.
end of story.0 -
When Ahmadinejad pointed out that there were currently three theories in existence regarding the 9/11 attacks - one of which being government complicity - he was simply making a statement of fact - regardless of whether he was intentionally being a shit-stirrer or not. Britain and the U.S have been stirring shit up with regards to Iran for the past 5 - 10 years, so why shouldn't he give us a dose of our own medicine? At least his statements are based on facts, such as the following:
This from the Washington Post in 2006:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01669.html
'A recent Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll of 1,010 Americans found that 36 percent suspect the U.S. government promoted the attacks or intentionally sat on its hands. Sixteen percent believe explosives brought down the towers. Twelve percent believe a cruise missile hit the Pentagon. Distrust percolates more strongly near Ground Zero. A Zogby International poll of New York City residents two years ago found 49.3 percent believed the government "consciously failed to act."'Post edited by Byrnzie on0 -
TriumphantAngel wrote:
i'm not taken in by anything. i'm more interested in facts. the fact is that he didn't say that the United States had planned the attacks, which is what the article said.yosi wrote:What is so funny about the furor you all seem to be working yourselves into is that when it comes down to it there really isn't that much of a difference between saying that the US government perpetrated 9/11, and endorsing such a view as one of three possible explanations, as if it is equally plausible and deserving of investigation. Ahmadinejad likes to dress up his lunacies in this rhetoric of academic skepticism, as in "there are these three theories about 9/11, and each of them are valid, and deserve to be studied," or "there are all these different theories about whether the holocaust happened, or about how many Jews were killed, etc., etc., and they are all valid, and deserve equal recognition and investigation." Perhaps this isn't as morally repugnant as simply asserting wild 9/11 conspiracies as fact, or outright holocaust denial, but it is certainly not that much further down the ladder. What is so funny is that some of you are so easily taken in by such a worn-out, thread-bare, and frankly childish rhetorical trick.
end of story.
Exactly. One must question why the media/governments/etc. perpetuate these twisting of words if it's not to 'prepare the ground'... just like Iraq. Instill fear and hatred in people's mind and presto, you have a gun ho country ready for a 'justified' war.0 -
yosi wrote:What is so funny is that some of you are so easily taken in by such a worn-out, thread-bare, and frankly childish rhetorical trick.
That's because we're all simpletons Yosi.
As for the issue of gullibility, the media lied about Ahmadinejad stating he wanted Israel wiped off the map, and they lied when they claimed Ahmadinejad said the 9/11 terrorist attacks were the work of the U.S government, but you believed them on both occasions.0 -
the man is the devil incarnate. i suggest we wipe iran off the map... its the only way to be sure. and safe.hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say0 -
What Ahmadinejad Knows
Iran's president appeals to 9/11 Truthers.
By BRET STEPHENS
Let's put a few facts on the table.
• The recent floods in Pakistan are acts neither of God nor of nature. Rather, they are the result of a secret U.S. military project called HAARP, based out of Fairbanks, Alaska, which controls the weather by sending electromagnetic waves into the upper atmosphere. HAARP may also be responsible for the recent spate of tsunamis and earthquakes.
• Not only did the U.S. invade Iraq for its oil, but also to harvest the organs of dead Iraqis, in which it does a thriving trade.
• Faisal Shahzad was not the perpetrator of the May 1 Times Square bombing, notwithstanding his own guilty plea. Rather, the bombing was orchestrated by an American think tank, though its exact identity has yet to be established.
• Oh, and 9/11 was an inside job. Just ask Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
The U.S. and its European allies were quick to walk out on the Iranian president after he mounted the podium at the U.N. last week to air his three "theories" on the attacks, each a conspiratorial shade of the other. But somebody should give him his due: He is a provocateur with a purpose. Like any expert manipulator, he knew exactly what he was doing when he pushed those most sensitive of buttons.
He knew, for instance, that the Obama administration and its allies are desperate to resume negotiations over Iran's nuclear programs. What better way to set the diplomatic mood than to spit in their eye when, as he sees it, they are already coming to him on bended knee?
He also knew that the more outrageous his remarks, the more grateful the West would be for whatever crumbs of reasonableness Iran might scatter on the table. This is what foreign ministers are for.
Finally, he knew that the Muslim world would be paying attention to his speech. That's a world in which his view of 9/11 isn't on the fringe but in the mainstream. Crackpots the world over—some of whom are reading this column now—want a voice. Ahmadinejad's speech was a bid to become theirs.
This is the ideological component of Ahmadinejad's grand strategy: To overcome the limitations imposed on Iran by its culture, geography, religion and sect, he seeks to become the champion of radical anti-Americans everywhere. That's why so much of his speech last week was devoted to denouncing capitalism, the hardy perennial of the anti-American playbook. But that playbook needs an update, which is where 9/11 "Truth" fits in.
Could it work? Like any politician, Ahmadinejad knows his demographic. The University of Maryland's World Public Opinion surveys have found that just 2% of Pakistanis believe al Qaeda perpetrated the attacks, whereas 27% believe it was the U.S. government. (Most respondents say they don't know.)
Among Egyptians, 43% say Israel is the culprit, while another 12% blame the U.S. Just 16% of Egyptians think al Qaeda did it. In Turkey, opinion is evenly split: 39% blame al Qaeda, another 39% blame the U.S. or Israel. Even in Europe, Ahmadinejad has his corner. Fifteen percent of Italians and 23% of Germans finger the U.S. for the attacks.
Deeper than the polling data are the circumstances from which they arise. There's always the temptation to argue that the problem is lack of education, which on the margins might be true. But the conspiracy theories cited earlier are retailed throughout the Muslim world by its most literate classes, journalists in particular. Irrationalism is not solely, or even mainly, the province of the illiterate.
Nor is it especially persuasive to suggest that the Muslim world needs more abundant proofs of American goodwill: The HAARP fantasy, for example, is being peddled at precisely the moment when Pakistanis are being fed and airlifted to safety by U.S. Marine helicopters operating off the USS Peleliu.
What Ahmadinejad knows is that there will always be a political place for what Michel Foucault called "the sovereign enterprise of Unreason." This is an enterprise whose domain encompasses the politics of identity, of religious zeal, of race or class or national resentment, of victimization, of cheek and self-assertion. It is the politics that uses conspiracy theory not just because it sells, which it surely does, or because it manipulates and controls, which it does also, but because it offends. It is politics as a revolt against empiricism, logic, utility, pragmatism. It is the proverbial rage against the machine.
Chances are you know people to whom this kind of politics appeals in some way, large or small. They are Ahmadinejad's constituency. They may be irrational; he isn't crazy.you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane0 -
You keep saying that the "wiped off the map" thing is a lie, but you've never explained how the change in translation amounts to a change in meaning. When he talks about the "Zionist regime" he is pretty clearly talking about Israel as a political entity, and not about any particular Israeli government, so it really isn't at all clear to me how his statement, regardless of the translation used, does not amount to a call for Israel's destruction.you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane0
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