rabbi calls for the murder of women and chidlren

Pepe Silvia
Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
edited June 2010 in A Moving Train
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGX1_oFPFOM

US Rabbi calls on Israel to kill Palestinian 'women, children and cattle'

Hasidic Jewish Rabbi Manis Friedman, from St. Paul, Minnesota, has issued a statement that Israel should destroy Palestinian holy sites and kill civilians in what he calls “the Jewish way” to fight a “moral war”.

The statement was printed in response to the question :

“How Should Jews Treat Their Arab Neighbors?” in the May/June edition of the Jewish magazine 'Moment', in a section titled 'Ask the Rabbis'.

The magazine printed responses from nine different rabbis, each representing a different school of Jewish thought. The rabbis surveyed included Independent, Humanist, Reform, Modern Orthodox, Renewal, Reconstructionist, Conservative, Sephardic and Chabad.

Rabbi Friedman represented the Chabad section of the article. His full statement was as follows:

“I don’t believe in western morality, i.e. don’t kill civilians or children, don’t destroy holy sites, don’t fight during holiday seasons, don’t bomb cemeteries, don’t shoot until they shoot first because it is immoral. The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way: Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle).”


“The first Israeli prime minister who declares that he will follow the Old Testament will finally bring peace to the Middle East. First, the Arabs will stop using children as shields. Second, they will stop taking hostages knowing that we will not be intimidated. Third, with their holy sites destroyed, they will stop believing that G-d is on their side. Result: no civilian casualties, no children in the line of fire, no false sense of righteousness, in fact, no war.”“Zero tolerance for stone throwing, for rockets, for kidnapping will mean that the state has achieved sovereignty. Living by Torah values will make us a light unto the nations who suffer defeat because of a disastrous morality of human invention.”

Friedman's statement was countered by that of Rabbi Fred Schindler Dodd, from Maryland, who said in his response to the question “How Should Jews Treat Their Arab Neighbors?” by saying, “My least-proud-to-be-Jewish moment was witnessing hundreds of kippah-clad Jerusalem protesters chant, mavet l’Aravim (“death to Arabs”). But acts of reconciliation and coexistence, proud moments, abound, too. May we tip the scales toward coexistence, justice and peace for all who inhabit the Holy Land and this holy Earth.”
don't compete; coexist

what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
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Comments

  • fugged up.
    Gimli 1993
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    St. Paul 2014
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    ... and yet there were some that were at the protest against Israeli actions in London the other day.

    "the Jewish way: Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle)." We've seen that in action.
  • alivegirl
    alivegirl Posts: 124
    redrock wrote:
    ... and yet there were some that were at the protest against Israeli actions in London the other day.

    Rabbi Weiss "We Cry and We Pray for the People of Palestine and Gaza!"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oZOFnbYdlk
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Friedman's statement was countered by that of Rabbi Fred Schindler Dodd, from Maryland, who said in his response to the question “How Should Jews Treat Their Arab Neighbors?” by saying, “My least-proud-to-be-Jewish moment was witnessing hundreds of kippah-clad Jerusalem protesters chant, mavet l’Aravim (“death to Arabs”). But acts of reconciliation and coexistence, proud moments, abound, too. May we tip the scales toward coexistence, justice and peace for all who inhabit the Holy Land and this holy Earth.”

    we need more rabbi dodd's
  • flywallyfly
    flywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    If this was a Muslim cleric people on here would be having a fit.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,963
    If this was a Muslim cleric people on here would be having a fit.


    Yep, I agree. This is crazy talk. The only difference...thankfully...is that a US Rabbi doesn't have nearly the influence that a Muslim cleric in the Mideast has. Maybe that is why it is worse when a Muslim Cleric (from the Mideast) says stuff like this because they actually have control of the people and "governments" over there. But, either way, this is scary, crazy talk.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    The only difference...thankfully...is that a US Rabbi doesn't have nearly the influence that a Muslim cleric in the Mideast has. Maybe that is why it is worse when a Muslim Cleric (from the Mideast) says stuff like this because they actually have control of the people and "governments" over there.

    What do you base this assumption on?
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,963
    Byrnzie wrote:
    The only difference...thankfully...is that a US Rabbi doesn't have nearly the influence that a Muslim cleric in the Mideast has. Maybe that is why it is worse when a Muslim Cleric (from the Mideast) says stuff like this because they actually have control of the people and "governments" over there.

    What do you base this assumption on?

    Hmmmm....well, if it was a muslim cleric in the US and not in the mideast I would think his influence would be about the same as a rabbi in the US.

    I'm basing it off of reality in the mideast that muslim clerics are the true leaders in many areas. Do you disagree?

    I may be wrong that a US based religious leader has less influence and effect on the people in Israel or Muslim countries, but that's what I think. The distance is one assumption I'm basing it off of I guess then.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    If this was a Muslim cleric people on here would be having a fit.

    For some strange reason, crying for blood over political cartoons disturbs me. Must be "latent racism", right?
  • flywallyfly
    flywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    If this was a Muslim cleric people on here would be having a fit.

    For some strange reason, crying for blood over political cartoons disturbs me. Must be "latent racism", right?

    Not really sure what that has to do with this story but I'll play along and agree with you. My point is there are some people that have a double standard according to which religion/religious figure is currently showing their ignorance.
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    If this was a Muslim cleric people on here would be having a fit.

    For some strange reason, crying for blood over political cartoons disturbs me. Must be "latent racism", right?

    Not really sure what that has to do with this story but I'll play along and agree with you. My point is there are some people that have a double standard according to which religion/religious figure is currently showing their ignorance.

    Dude, YOU brought up Muslims, not me .... 8-) anyhow, we are on the same page regarding double standards.
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    I'm basing it off of reality in the mideast that muslim clerics are the true leaders in many areas. Do you disagree?
    what do you know about the reality in the middle east? have you ever been there? do you speak the language? or do you actually just base this off of bullshit like MEMRI publications and mistranslations, and false media representation?
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    Dude, YOU brought up Muslims, not me .... 8-) anyhow, we are on the same page regarding double standards.


    his point still stands, if a muslim cleric in the us had said these things of christians, jews or non muslims people in the us would be going crazy and want him deported or something
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Dude, YOU brought up Muslims, not me .... 8-) anyhow, we are on the same page regarding double standards.


    his point still stands, if a muslim cleric in the us had said these things of christians, jews or non muslims people in the us would be going crazy and want him deported or something

    And justifyably so ... Do you want nutbar extremists in your neighbourhood, Jewish or otherwise? I agree there's a double standard in North America ... And an even worse one in the Middle East that works in the other direction. I guess we can safely conclude that everyone is kinda fucked up.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,963
    _outlaw wrote:
    I'm basing it off of reality in the mideast that muslim clerics are the true leaders in many areas. Do you disagree?
    what do you know about the reality in the middle east? have you ever been there? do you speak the language? or do you actually just base this off of bullshit like MEMRI publications and mistranslations, and false media representation?

    First of all, I said that I thought what the rabbi said was crazy talk and people would be more upset about it if he were a muslim cleric. Do you disagree with that?

    Also, I said...Muslim Clerics in the middle east have a lot of power over the people. Is that wrong?

    I also am assuming, and I admit I could be wrong, that a religious leader actually in the area of conflict would have more influence than a religious leader in the US or other country...is that wrong?

    I was giving my opinion on one potentially valid reason for some to let this comment from a US based rabbi slide while holding Muslim clerics in the middle east accountable. I didn't say I agreed with it anywhere either, just one possible reason.

    Do you read what is written or just who posted it? Dislike me so much that you have to disagree with me even when I think we probably have the same opinion on this subject matter? Man, you and Byrnzie are driving me nuts.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Byrnzie ... driving me nuts.

    Welcome to my world ...
    ;)
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Hmmmm....well, if it was a muslim cleric in the US and not in the mideast I would think his influence would be about the same as a rabbi in the US.

    I'm basing it off of reality in the mideast that muslim clerics are the true leaders in many areas. Do you disagree?

    I may be wrong that a US based religious leader has less influence and effect on the people in Israel or Muslim countries, but that's what I think. The distance is one assumption I'm basing it off of I guess then.

    You mean basing it 'on', not basing it 'off of'.

    Anyway, you may be right, but then again you could be wrong.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Byrnzie ... driving me nuts.

    Welcome to my world ...
    ;)

    I try my best. :P
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,963
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Hmmmm....well, if it was a muslim cleric in the US and not in the mideast I would think his influence would be about the same as a rabbi in the US.

    I'm basing it off of reality in the mideast that muslim clerics are the true leaders in many areas. Do you disagree?

    I may be wrong that a US based religious leader has less influence and effect on the people in Israel or Muslim countries, but that's what I think. The distance is one assumption I'm basing it off of I guess then.

    You mean basing it 'on', not basing it 'off of'.

    Anyway, you may be right, but then again you could be wrong.

    You're right, I may be wrong.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Byrnzie ... driving me nuts.

    Welcome to my world ...
    ;)

    he only drives you nuts cause you allow it. 8-)
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