limited edition vinyl records,why?

100 Pacer · September 2008

LeatherMandi wrote:

the whole benny lp , Binaural and ITW shit really pisses me off..I mean its just stupid. Why not print enough for all fans to enjoy? I don't do the ebay thing but it doesnt mean that i still don't get pissed and confused everytime i want to add to my vinyl collection (that i ACTUALLY LISTEN TO)
I mean shit, binaural wasnt even that popular amongst the masses! i just wanted to be able to hook up headphones to my record player and listen to my fav pj tunes..

i know there has to be so many binaurals , bennys and itw's that are on a fucking wall some where.... a crying shame :(

although slightly off-topic, Brad Klausen shed some light recently about the whole "limited" concept with regards to PJ posters when asked why posters are printed in small numbers. his answer does touch on some points that carry over well to the vinyl issue/argument at hand. regardless, thought it was worth repeating in this thread:

number 7 wrote:

People bring this point up a lot...

It's not to keep them limited on purpose so they are rare,...it's the logistics of screen printing...each color is printed individually...so a 5 color print of a run of say 500 means you have to pull ink on to paper 2500 times. Which means you have to pick up a sheet of paper, put it on the press, pull ink through a screen onto it, take that sheet and place it on a drying rack, collect all the sheets after the first color is done for all 500 sheets, then stack them all up and do it all over again for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th color. It's quite a monotonous, time consuming process. Not too mention the screen is flexible and moves and you have to stop every now and again because the colors aren't lining up right or the press is malfunctioning. And 500 is a big run for screen printed posters and for pearl jam posters the runs are usually a lot bigger then that...most bands do closer to around 200 - 300 total for a show.

If it was offset printing you could print 500 copies easily in a day....screen printing big runs takes at least 3 - 5 days depending on the run size.

Plus originally, the idea is that the posters are for the show only...you go to a show you get the poster...if you aren't at the show, you don't get it. It's a momento from a particular place and time that you happened to be at and experience. So you limit the number you can print and sell at the show because you can only print so many. But people dig them and they've become more sought after, so more get printed and sold online and not just at shows...so the print runs for pj and ed's shows are already really quite big for screen printed posters. Plus they cost money to print, and paper and trees...if you print too many of a poster that it turns out people aren't feeling, then you are left with a bunch of posters nobody wants. And trust me, it's always a crap shoot as to what people are going to respond to....sometimes i think people aren't going to like something and they love it, other times i think it's great and people don't...the one thing i've learned is you never know exactly how people will respond to particular designs...

gobrowns19 · September 2008

I think some of the reason second issues aren't run on Benaroya, Binaural, etc, is that it would be a huge slap to someone who bought it for 400+ and the next day people were able to for 35.

Plus, we all love Benaroya, but if it wasn't so rare and no one talked about it, would you want one? I most likely would not, honestly.

Having said that, I do think if I came across a copy of Binaural, I would be afraid and nervous every time I played it.

southerngarden · September 2008

gobrowns19 wrote:

I think some of the reason second issues aren't run on Benaroya, Binaural, etc, is that it would be a huge slap to someone who bought it for 400+ and the next day people were able to for 35.

Plus, we all love Benaroya, but if it wasn't so rare and no one talked about it, would you want one? I most likely would not, honestly.

if they decided to repress benny the last thing they would consider was the feelings of the fans who shelled out big bucks for a copy...this should be one of the main reasons for repressing it not the other way around. plus, there would still be a difference between the original and the repressed editions.

why wouldnt you want a live pearl jam vinyl? if benny wasnt so rare and it wasnt so talked about it would still be a kick ass recording of an amazing performance and only the second LIVE pearl jam vinyl out there. so i gotta think most fans would still want one...which is why it baffles me that it was so limited.

if you buy the album you have every right to do whatever the heck you please with it. keep it sealed, open it, worship it, eat it, melt it...whatever. its your choice to turn your money into your happiness....but the band made the record to be heard, not so their fans could profit off of selling it.

on a slightly different but related topic ...i picked up the 180g repress of TEN today and it blows the doors off the original pressing...sounds much better and cleaner at high volume!

corduroy10 · September 2008

I read an article recently that said that most bands that press vinyl records actually lose money overall on the whole venture and that many do it because they like it and want to.

Records like No Code, Binaural and to a lesser extent Yield, did not sell huge numbers on CD, so I could see why there may have been some hesitation on the band’s part with printing big runs of those records on a nostalgic, but very much "dead" format at the time. It is also understandable why the first three records were, and still are readily available on LP due to their popularity. Riot Act is now out of print, but I remember it being available on the site and in shops for what seemed like a long time after it came out.

Vinyl has come back in a big way in the mid-to-late 2000's, but I think it is still very much a niche format. Record sales in general have been slumping year after year, and I think that the recent interest in LP’s contributes a very small percentage of total records sold. I could be wrong, but I suspect that although the band really loves vinyl, it is ultimately a business decision of how much will actually sell vs. the cost of unsold units sitting in a warehouse for an indefinite period of time.

A great example is Jeff’s new CD. It is being sold in limited numbers through the website, and I believe select indie shops. Why? I think it is because Pearl Jam knows that the people who would be interested in buying it are mainly Pearl Jam fans, and not the average person who walks into Wal-mart, Virgin or HMV. The same goes for vinyl. I’ve been in plenty of stores that sell vinyl and the big sellers seem to be mainly indie bands like Arcade Fire or Vampire Weekend, nostalgic rock like the Beatles or Pink Floyd, and dance/hip hop. WE want Pearl Jam LP’s, but I fear that we are a small minority.

I think vinyl is great, and I wouldn’t shed a tear if Pearl Jam re-released out-of-print albums that I paid a premium for because I think everyone should have the opportunity.

demetrios · September 2008

think what might happen & maybe should happen so the arguments back & forth on the band & fans is this ..

to please the "fan in need" well, print the old albums on vinyl again, be V2. won't be limited like the originals, but just a re-release of the product for other's to enjoy. but will that stop the fan that is dying to get the first print? to pay big bucks for the limited edition copy? well, you had your chance many months back to buy it. it's gone. now, accept v2 of the product.

same goes with posters. hmm .. so ya love those '98 posters eh? np. print another 100 of each .. but have like logos on the bottom left/right of the poster, v2 or something. just to please the fan in need. will fans buy old prints amesbros had year's back, re-release them for like 30 bucks a pop, but include printed marks that they are v2 of the product or something? what do you think?

i won't be suprise something like this will happen down the road.

ok. sorry for the rant. it's 1:30am. no work till 11am tomorrow. painters haven't even finished the rooms for me to lay my ceramic tiles down. argh ...

Porchaholic · September 2008

How much are Binaural Vinyls going for?

southerngarden · September 2008

last one on ebay went for $122.00 (OPENED) the same price that the last Live On Two Legs (SEALED) went for...

makes me feel like a LOTL vinyl straight up for a Klausen TORONTO 06 poster isnt that bad a trade....anyone interested in a LOTL for toronto 06, pm me...+ cash for an A/P.

Fahka · September 2008

mookeywrench wrote:

They wouldn't be put up on my wall, but I wouldn't have any problem knowing that someone else wanted to put it up on their wall since they spent their money on that LP that they now own, they have the right to do whatever they want with it.

not when i could be usin that shit for its actual purpose! "Ohhhhhhhhhh look at my 200 dollar copy of Binaural guys.. its so beautiful you guys, seriously" "can we listen to it?" "um NO.. its limited edition vinyl, ASSHOLE!"

If you want to hang something on the wall... buy a fucking poster .. but yes sir, thanks for pointing out that i can't do anything about what other people do with their vinyl, as if it were not so painfully obvious to me already. Hence my frustration.

Ps, who ever was babbling about the "if there was a bunch of them, nobody would want them" crap... first off, thats a load. I wanted the benny lp because i thought it would be SO COOL to have at least one live pj vinyl just like i have with all my other favs. I don't want the vinyl because some asshole decided to tease me and only produce a few.

NMyTree · September 2008

To be honest. You know what I do?

LOL, talk about obsessive:D

When a vinyl record of one of my all-time favorites is released or reissued, I usually buy at least two. Sometimes three.

One to play. One as backup, to be eventually played. And the third I put aside and save for the future. If one of my boys ends up loving the album, it's his.

Although I'm in trouble if they both turn into the same kind of music-lover, their dad is:D

Niko80 · September 2008

I think his limited thing does pearl jam more good than one would think.

Hype=excellent marketing!

Mohab · September 2008

since lps go like hotcakes and never last on the site, it is surprising, i think 1 or 2 thousand of each (1 for ra) would be a good idea, sell 20000 records at 20 a piece, thats almost ahalf a mill. where are the low level record execs on these things - looking for the next pop hit i guess

Fahka · September 2008

Niko80 wrote:

I think his limited thing does pearl jam more good than one would think.

Hype=excellent marketing!

Oh i agree.. hence why this crap pisses me off :P

southerngarden · September 2008

LeatherMandi wrote:

not when i could be usin that shit for its actual purpose! "Ohhhhhhhhhh look at my 200 dollar copy of Binaural guys.. its so beautiful you guys, seriously" "can we listen to it?" "um NO.. its limited edition vinyl, ASSHOLE!"

If you want to hang something on the wall... buy a fucking poster .. but yes sir, thanks for pointing out that i can't do anything about what other people do with their vinyl, as if it were not so painfully obvious to me already. Hence my frustration.

Ps, who ever was babbling about the "if there was a bunch of them, nobody would want them" crap... first off, thats a load. I wanted the benny lp because i thought it would be SO COOL to have at least one live pj vinyl just like i have with all my other favs. I don't want the vinyl because some asshole decided to tease me and only produce a few.

my thought and point exactly....great, you bought it, you can do whatever you want with it! but if you want to hang it on your wall, buy a poster! Shit, you can buy a 12" x 12" promo cover poster of nearly any record, hang that on your wall!

so many people here just dont get it! this isnt about profit! these are not investments! listen to the vinyl, hang the posters on your wall! if youve never heard your vinyl you are missing out!

mookeywrench · September 2008

southerngarden wrote:

my thought and point exactly....great, you bought it, you can do whatever you want with it! but if you want to hang it on your wall, buy a poster! Shit, you can buy a 12" x 12" promo cover poster of nearly any record, hang that on your wall!

so many people here just dont get it! this isnt about profit! these are not investments! listen to the vinyl, hang the posters on your wall! if youve never heard your vinyl you are missing out!

You're saying that we can do whatever we want with our purchase, but then you go on to say that we need to listen to it if we own it. You're contradicting your points.

If we can do what we want with it, it shouldn't matter if we hang it up on our wall or spin it down to the groove. You should be at ease with anyone's decision either way since it isn't your copy of the vinyl.

Model Roll Model · September 2008

mookeywrench wrote:

You're saying that we can do whatever we want with our purchase, but then you go on to say that we need to listen to it if we own it. You're contradicting your points.

If we can do what we want with it, it shouldn't matter if we hang it up on our wall or spin it down to the groove. You should be at ease with anyone's decision either way since it isn't your copy of the vinyl.

Touche

youngster · September 2008

spin that shit and move on with your life. You can still say you own the vinyl after it's been spun. It doesn't go away. The only reason people are afraid to open them is because the value will go down. Well, in a couple years, the open ones will sell for what the sealed ones go for today. Stop being petty and enjoy them.

bazzer · September 2008

cropduster82 wrote:

The only reason people are afraid to open them is because the value will go down.

That is not true at all. I have no interest in the future value of my vinyl.

dave grolsch · September 2008

just a thought,if the band advertised a limited edition of 2300 and later on released say another 5000 would that lead to false advertising claims,ya know people saying i bought it BECAUSE it was limited edition,i wonder were this would leave the band legally,i know pj fans would never sue the band whatever but a serious record collector?

NMyTree · September 2008

cropduster82 wrote:

spin that shit and move on with your life. You can still say you own the vinyl after it's been spun. It doesn't go away. The only reason people are afraid to open them is because the value will go down. Well, in a couple years, the open ones will sell for what the sealed ones go for today. Stop being petty and enjoy them.

Stop being petty?

Holy moly! Dude, you're a talking like a facist throwing a tantrum and trying to tell everyone else what they should do with their own vinyl records. And your yapping about pettyness? Sheesh. Get a grip.

And I'm someone who plays all of his vinyl records (except duplicate backups) regardless of their collector's value.

youngster · September 2008

NMyTree wrote:

Stop being petty?

Holy moly! Dude, you're a talking like a facist throwing a tantrum and trying to tell everyone else what they should do with their own vinyl records. And your yapping about pettyness? Sheesh. Get a grip.

And I'm someone who plays all of his vinyl records (except duplicate backups) regardless of their collector's value.

Yeah, I was kinda drunk when I wrote that last night but I read the entire thread and that's what came out. I used to be the guy that cherished his vinyl so much that I was afraid to open it. I have since opened and enjoyed all of them and have no regrets. I wasn't trying to sound fascist in any way and also am not telling anyone what to do. What should I care if someone has a record collection sealed hanging on their wall. I was trying to say that, in my opinion, I think people would enjoy it more if it was on the turntable. Who am I to say.

limited edition vinyl records,why?

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