Health & Safety Regulations

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Comments

  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    catefrances wrote:
    scb wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    my theory is if you can afford a car then you should be able to afford a safety seat.

    Who said anyone could afford a car?

    well why would you need a safety seat for baby if you cant afford a car?? im assuming, perhaps naively, if you cant afford a car you dont have one??

    You would have to use a car to get your baby home. It's not necessarily true that you own the car or, if you do, that you purchased it (as opposed to receiving it as a gift). Or, perhaps you could afford a car 15 years ago when you bought your car; doesn't mean you can afford a car now.
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    dunkman wrote:
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    Seatbelts:

    If I'm not wearing a seatbelt, and I'm not the cause of the accident (someone else is), that person is responsible for whatever damages I sustain. My not wearing a seatbelt caused no harm to anyone, and wasn't going to either. It's only after I get hit while it is someone else's mistake, that it becomes an issue. Taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for anyone's damages, but charities will choose to do so.

    that's some awful logic there.

    because you can't be bothered to put on a seatbelt you will sue someone for damages sustained over and above those that you would have sustained if you had a seatbelt? and how do you work our what injuries you would have had if you had a seatbelt on? do you wait until you are fit again, presuming you didnt die when you got thrown through the windscreen, and then re-enact the crash again just to prove your point?

    seatbelt is the law here in the UK... if you were in a crash and had no seatbelt you'd get nowhere with a civil or criminal action against the other person and rightly so.

    it's like moaning about the bartender serving you a pint of beer when you are already drunk and then falling outside and trying to claim damages from him because its his fault he gave you too many beers.

    people need start being responsible.

    It does seem like this argument is contrary to the "personal responsibility" argument we're always hearing around here, doesn't it?
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    scb wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    well why would you need a safety seat for baby if you cant afford a car?? im assuming, perhaps naively, if you cant afford a car you dont have one??

    You would have to use a car to get your baby home. It's not necessarily true that you own the car or, if you do, that you purchased it (as opposed to receiving it as a gift). Or, perhaps you could afford a car 15 years ago when you bought your car; doesn't mean you can afford a car now.


    aah gotcha. i dont own a car and i got my babies home just fine. here some of the taxis are equipped with safety seats. if the hospitals have found themselves in this predicament of turning patients away because theyre holding newborns then perhaps it might be wise to invest in some sort of safety seat hire so parents can get their babies home thus freeing up much needed beds.
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  • KDH12
    KDH12 Posts: 2,096
    scb wrote:
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    scb wrote:

    My comment was meant to point out that we can say whatever we want to about what people "should" do, but it's all meaningless if they don't have the resources to do it.

    I think it takes me back to my original point with the whole car seat thing though, which is to what extent we want to consider the interest of the community as a whole and the self-interest of the taxpayer when making policy. We haven't really acknowledged that sometimes social programs are not only an investment in the well-being of the community, but also really do SAVE money for the taxpayers as well.

    I just don't see it this way-- where are the savings? Someone not shelling out money for car seats = savings to me. It's one thing for people "without resources" to find a job in 9 months. That's tough in this economy. Money for a car seat, or a friend or family member with a car seat, or a donated car seat from a church should not be an issue.

    If the state were to provide these car seats, what's involved in making this happen? Background checks on someone's income? If not, why shouldn't Americans above the poverty line try and get a "free" car seat out of the deal... After all, they are paying for it, aren't they?

    The financial savings from providing car seats comes when we don't have to turn (paying) laboring patients away or provide care/resources for patients we can't discharge. The financial savings from providing social services for families with small children (parenting classes, child care, WIC, food stamps, Medicaid, home visits, etc.) include reduced costs for medical care, education, the criminal justice system, etc. It's similar to the great financial savings we would have if we provided preventative medical care. (Whether or not it should be an issue is not relevant to these savings.)

    Income eligibility for car seats would be required in the same way as for Medicaid or other such services.

    +1

    I work in a diversion program where we work with criminals in the community instead of sending them to jail and the cost to the stat/society is about a third compared to housing them in jails.
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  • KDH12
    KDH12 Posts: 2,096
    scb wrote:
    KDH12 wrote:
    I say give them the car seat then refer them to a parenting class which will teach them the difference between the ear and the mouth.
    KDH12 wrote:
    In Illinois I believe that medicaid provides a car seat to those in need

    But does it pay for parenting classes? ;)


    I am a social worker and guarantee you that with my resourcefulness I could find a parenting class covered by medicaid if I needed to

    however it should not be that hard unfortunately it is getting harder
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  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    Simply put, not having a car seat demonstrates a pretty large lack of foresight after a 9 month pregnancy.


    right on
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  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    scb wrote:
    Will any of you anti-regulation folks address even some of these and tell us why you feel that way? Please.


    I think you and I know where each other stand on most of the personal safety stuff so I will go a new route with you,

    I am for the legalization of all drugs. Every single one. If someone wants to do them that is their own fault. And I don't think they should be any more regulated than things like extenze. If someone wants to do it, they should be free to accept the consequences. I think they are no more harmful than any of the legal drugs. Also it would allow the US government to stop wasting money fighting a losing battle year in and year out and collect tax money they would normally miss out on. Helping lower the income taxes on everyone.


    edit* I also would like to say that smoking should be left to the proprietor of a business. If they want to allow smoking they should be able to, considering it is a legal activity. If someone wants to not allow it, it should be up to the owners of the business.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
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  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    scb wrote:
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    Even if I some how was in that every situation, give me a phone and an hour and I believe I would have it solved.
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    I'll donate a car seat tomorrow to the hospital down the street in honor of this thread.

    Okay, then, I challenge you to do it! Tomorrow, without spending any money, without borrowing money or a car seat from friends or family, and without doing anything illegal - and maybe we should also say without a car - obtain a car seat within an hour. (We really should also have you assume that you're 73 hours post-cesarean and have no support from a partner or family.) Then donate the car seat to a local hospital (preferably one that serves a resource-limited population). :D

    Edit to add: I forgot to mention that you live in a rural part of the state, 150 miles away.

    So did you do it?!?
  • VINNY GOOMBA
    VINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,828
    scb wrote:
    scb wrote:
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    Even if I some how was in that every situation, give me a phone and an hour and I believe I would have it solved.
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    I'll donate a car seat tomorrow to the hospital down the street in honor of this thread.

    Okay, then, I challenge you to do it! Tomorrow, without spending any money, without borrowing money or a car seat from friends or family, and without doing anything illegal - and maybe we should also say without a car - obtain a car seat within an hour. (We really should also have you assume that you're 73 hours post-cesarean and have no support from a partner or family.) Then donate the car seat to a local hospital (preferably one that serves a resource-limited population). :D

    Edit to add: I forgot to mention that you live in a rural part of the state, 150 miles away.

    So did you do it?!?

    No I didn't. Just out of curiosity, who travels 150 miles to a hospital to have a baby delivered, but doesn't have the means to borrow a car seat?
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    VINNY GOOMBA wrote:
    No I didn't. Just out of curiosity, who travels 150 miles to a hospital to have a baby delivered, but doesn't have the means to borrow a car seat?

    A person who lives in a rural community with 56% of people living below 100% of the federal poverty level and up to 85% unemployment where the nearest perinatologist is 150 miles away.

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