Israel is the Greatest!

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Comments

  • yosi
    yosi NYC Posts: 3,167
    I don't think so. Post the complete definition again please.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    yosi wrote:
    I don't think so. Post the complete definition again please.


    i've already posted it twice and both times you ignored it, do a search for it
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • yosi
    yosi NYC Posts: 3,167
    I'd rather not, I'm a little busy. If you have it at hand just re-post it. Sorry to inconvenience you, but you're the one requesting a response.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    yosi wrote:
    Post the complete definition again please.

    O.k:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and ... id_analogy

    'According to the UN Treaty Organization, the fact that the Apartheid Convention is intended to apply to situations other than South Africa is confirmed by its endorsement in a wider context in instruments adopted before and after the fall of apartheid. In 1977, Additional Protocol I of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 recognized apartheid as a “grave breach” of the Protocol (art. 85, paragraph 4 (c)) without any geographical limitation. Apartheid features as a crime in the Draft Code of Crimes against the Peace and Security of Mankind adopted by the International Law Commission on first reading in 1991 without any reference to South Africa and in 1996 the Draft Code adopted on second reading recognized institutionalized racial discrimination as species of crime against humanity in article 18 (f) and explained in its commentary that this “is in fact the crime of apartheid under a more general denomination”(Report of the International Law Commission on the work of its forty-eighth session (A/51/10), p. 49). In 1998, the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court included the “crime of apartheid” as a form of crime against humanity (art. 7). It may be concluded that the Apartheid Convention is dead as far as the original cause for its creation – apartheid in South Africa – is concerned, but that it lives on as a species of the crime against humanity, under both customary international law and the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.[187]

    Israel has been accused by Palestinian organizations and their supporters of the crime of apartheid under international law. For example, in 2006, at the UN-sponsored International Conference of Civil Society in Support of the Palestinian People, Phyllis Bennis, co-chair of the International Coordinating Network on Palestine, opened the speeches of the civil society at the first plenary of the conference by alleging "Once again, the crime of apartheid [is] being committed by a United Nations Member State [Israel]."[9]

    The crime of apartheid first became part of international law in 1973 when the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid (ICSPCA) was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly. It defined it as "inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group ... over another racial group ... and systematically oppressing them."[188]

    In 2002, a statutory definition of the crime of apartheid was provided by Article 7 of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. The crime of apartheid was included as one of several crimes against humanity, and encompassed inhumane acts such as torture, murder, forcible transfer, imprisonment, or persecution of an identifiable group on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, or other grounds, "committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime."[189] This change to defining the crime of apartheid as discrimination on the grounds of national, ethnic or cultural group rather than racial group alone increased the applicability of the law to Israeli policy in the West Bank.
    [188]

    Once the crime and its elements had been included in the criminal statute, even countries that had originally objected to the apartheid convention, like the United States, recognized the customary prohibition against apartheid. The U.S. now allows aliens to file suits in U.S. courts for violations.[190][191]

    No mechanism exists to prosecute any state for the crime of apartheid, except referral from the UN Security Council to the International Criminal Court, and no such referral has ever taken place. However, many of the member states have given their national courts subject matter jurisdiction over crimes defined in the Rome Statute under the principle of universal jurisdiction.[192]
  • yosi
    yosi NYC Posts: 3,167
    From the definition you posted it seems that apartheid is defined by oppression stemming from group affiliation. Oppression is only apartheid, if I understand this definition correctly, if the oppression is against a certain group on account of that group's identity. To be more precise, if Israel were oppressing the Palestinians BECAUSE they are Palestinians, then the term apartheid would rightly apply. However Israel is not oppressing Palestinians because of the fact that they are Palestinian. Israeli policy is not motivated by a hatred of Palestinians for being Palestinian.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    yosi wrote:
    From the definition you posted it seems that apartheid is defined by oppression stemming from group affiliation. Oppression is only apartheid, if I understand this definition correctly, if the oppression is against a certain group on account of that group's identity. To be more precise, if Israel were oppressing the Palestinians BECAUSE they are Palestinians, then the term apartheid would rightly apply. However Israel is not oppressing Palestinians because of the fact that they are Palestinian. Israeli policy is not motivated by a hatred of Palestinians for being Palestinian.

    oh, i agree they don't dislike them because they are Palestinians, they dislike them because they won't leave
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    oh, i agree they don't dislike them because they are Palestinians, they dislike them because they won't leave

    Which is why its possible to argue against the use of this term in this situation ... Apartheid focuses on group membership specifically, not other reasons for oppression.
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    yosi wrote:
    I'd rather not, I'm a little busy. If you have it at hand just re-post it. Sorry to inconvenience you, but you're the one requesting a response.


    it's easy, go to the top of this thread and type 'icc' in the search box, it will now find 3 posts in this thread, the 1 at the bottom is it. or you can search in the moving train forum and find it in this thread and at least 1 other
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    oh, i agree they don't dislike them because they are Palestinians, they dislike them because they won't leave

    Which is why its possible to argue against the use of this term in this situation ... Apartheid focuses on group membership specifically, not other reasons for oppression.


    fine, i will just repost it, this is what the UN and ICC call apartheid, both of them name a few things Israel does against the Palestinians, it doesn't just have to be a perfect recreation of South Africa

    ICSPCA definition of the crime of apartheid

    Article II of the ICSPCA defines the crime of apartheid as follows:
    International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid,
    Article II[1]

    For the purpose of the present Convention, the term 'the crime of apartheid', which shall include similar policies and practices of racial segregation and discrimination as practiced in southern Africa, shall apply to the following inhumane acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them:
    Denial to a member or members of a racial group or groups of the right to life and liberty of person
    By murder of members of a racial group or groups;
    By the infliction upon the members of a racial group or groups of serious bodily or mental harm, by the infringement of their freedom or dignity, or by subjecting them to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment;
    By arbitrary arrest and illegal imprisonment of the members of a racial group or groups;
    Deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part;
    Any legislative measures and other measures calculated to prevent a racial group or groups from participation in the political, social, economic and cultural life of the country and the deliberate creation of conditions preventing the full development of such a group or groups, in particular by denying to members of a racial group or groups basic human rights and freedoms, including the right to work, the right to form recognised trade unions, the right to education, the right to leave and to return to their country, the right to a nationality, the right to freedom of movement and residence, the right to freedom of opinion and expression, and the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association;
    Any measures including legislative measures, designed to divide the population along racial lines by the creation of separate reserves and ghettos for the members of a racial group or groups, the prohibition of mixed marriages among members of various racial groups, the expropriation of landed property belonging to a racial group or groups or to members thereof;
    Exploitation of the labour of the members of a racial group or groups, in particular by submitting them to forced labour;
    Persecution of organizations and persons, by depriving them of fundamental rights and freedoms, because they oppose apartheid.
    [edit]ICC definition of the crime of apartheid

    Article 7 of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court defines crimes against humanity as:
    Article 7
    Crimes against humanity
    For the purpose of this Statute, 'crime against humanity' means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack:
    Murder;
    Extermination;
    Enslavement;
    Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
    Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law;
    Torture;
    Rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;
    Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court;
    Enforced disappearance of persons;
    The crime of apartheid;
    Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health.[12]
    Later in Article 7, the crime of apartheid is defined as:
    The 'crime of apartheid' means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalised regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.[12]
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • yosi
    yosi NYC Posts: 3,167
    Byrnzie wrote:
    yosi wrote:
    You keep mentioning this vote. When does this vote take place? What are the details? If I want to look up this vote what would I type in? Did this vote ask the members of the UN to vote on the proposition that "Israel is an apartheid state?" Cause otherwise you can't logically use this vote as a means of arguing that Israel is an apartheid state. Plus there is still the philosophical problem of defining the term "apartheid" by the feelings of a hundred+ UN representatives, or I suppose the governments of the countries they represent, because we all know that governments always make decisions for perfectly pure reasons (except, of course, Israel and the U.S.).

    Yeah, yeah, yeah, keep struggling to wriggle out of the fact that Israel is an Apartheid state. I've proved it above in more ways than one, and your squirming efforts to avoid the facts make no difference.

    As for the U.N 242 vote, it's not easy to find the details online, probably because some people would rather brush the vote count under the table.

    Here's what I did find though which gives you an idea of who the rejectionists are:


    http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2009/ga10809.doc.htm

    16 January 2009

    General Assembly Plenary

    Tenth Emergency Special Session

    34th & 35th Meetings (AM & PM)

    GENERAL ASSEMBLY DEMANDS FULL RESPECT FOR SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTION 1860

    CALLING FOR IMMEDIATE GAZA CEASEFIRE, AS EMERGENCY SESSION CONCLUDES


    Resolution Adopted by Vote of 143-3-9, After Two-Day Debate;

    Expresses Grave Concern about Developments on Ground since Council Text’s Adoption

    The General Assembly, gravely concerned about the intensified military operations in the Gaza Strip and heavy civilian casualties since last week’s adoption of resolution 1860 by the Security Council, this evening demanded full respect for that text, including its urgent call for an immediate, durable and fully respected ceasefire, leading to the full withdrawal of Israeli forces and unimpeded provision of humanitarian assistance.

    Following a two-day emergency special session convened to address the three-week old crisis, the Assembly adopted its own resolution on the issue by a vote of 143 in favour to 3 against (United States, Israel, Nauru), with 9 abstentions (Australia, Canada, Côte d’Ivoire, Ecuador, Indonesia, Iran, Nigeria, Syria, Venezuela).


    http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2009/ga10896.doc.htm

    2 December 2009

    Sixty-fourth General Assembly

    Plenary

    54th Meeting (AM)



    The report also contains the observations of the Secretary-General on the current state of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and international efforts to move the peace process forward. In the report, which covers the period from September 2008 to August 2009, the Secretary-General says the United Nations will continue to work towards the peaceful settlement of the question of Palestine. The framework for peace remains unchanged: the creation of two States, an independent and viable Palestine living side-by-side in peace and security with Israel, on the basis of the principle of land for peace, and a just and comprehensive regional peace consistent with Security Council resolutions 242 (1967), 338 (1973), 1397 (2002), 1515 (2003), and 1850 (2008), as well as the Road Map and the Arab Peace Initiative.


    Following Two-Day Debate, General Assembly Adopts Six Draft Resolutions on Question of Palestine, Middle East

    Address: Peaceful Settlement, Palestinian Rights Committee, Jerusalem,

    Special Information Programme, Palestinian Rights Division, Syrian Globe

    Fresh from observing the International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People, the General Assembly this morning concluded two days of plenary debate on the question of Palestine and the broader situation in the Middle East with the adoption, by recorded vote, of six resolutions aimed at promoting the inalienable rights of Palestinians -– particularly to statehood –- and permanently ending Israel’s “illegal” actions in Jerusalem and Syrian Golan.

    In early action, the Assembly turned its attention to Palestine with the adoption of four texts. It first adopted, by a recorded vote of 109 in favour to 8 against (Australia, Canada, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, United States) with 55 abstentions, a resolution on the “Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People” (document A/64/L.20) (for voting details, see Annex I). By that text, it asked the Committee to continue to exert all efforts to promote the realization of Palestinians’ inalienable rights, including to self-determination.

    By a recorded vote of 112 in favour to 9 against (Australia, Canada, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, New Zealand, United States) with 54 abstentions (Annex II), the Assembly next adopted a resolution on the “Division for Palestinian Rights of the Secretariat” (document A/64/L.21), by which it requested the Secretary-General to continue to provide the Division with the necessary resources and ensure that it continued to carry out its programme of work.

    Next, by a recorded vote of 162 in favour to 8 against (Australia, Canada, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, United States), with 5 abstentions (Benin, Cameroon, Fiji, Papua New Guinea, Tonga) (Annex III), the Assembly adopted a resolution on the “Special Information Programme on the Question of Palestine of the Department of Public Information of the Secretariat” (document A/64/L.22), by which it requested the Department to continue its special information programme for the 2010-2011 biennium.

    The Assembly also adopted by a recorded vote of 164 in favour to 7 against (Australia, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, United States) with 4 abstentions (Cameroon, Canada, Fiji, Tonga) (Annex IV), a resolution on the “Peaceful Settlement of the question of Palestine” (document A/64/L.23), by which it reaffirmed the illegality of a host of Israeli actions aimed at altering the character, status and demographic composition of Jerusalem and the territory as a whole, among them, Israel’s construction of a wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem.

    More broadly by the text, the Assembly reaffirmed its full support for the Middle East peace process, based on relevant United Nations resolutions, the Madrid terms of reference, the Arab Peace Initiative, the Quartet Road Map and existing agreements between the Israeli and Palestinian sides. It urged the parties to take immediate steps in follow-up to their joint understanding reached at the 2007 Annapolis Conference, and encouraged the convening of an international conference in Moscow, as envisioned by Security Council resolution 1850 (2008).

    Speaking before the votes, the United States representative said his Government was deeply saddened to be presented with unbalanced resolutions, which unlike the Assembly’s actions vis-à-vis other States, placed demands on Israel and failed to acknowledge that both sides had obligations. While the United States accepted the principle that the Assembly might look into the practices of States, resolutions under this item formed a clear pattern of institutional bias directed at one Member State.

    Speaking after the votes, the representative of Israel said his Government had voted against the resolutions, which reflected a one-sided agenda that had been repeated year in and year out. People in the region did not need another biased General Assembly resolution; they needed peace based on mutual recognition, which would result from negotiations.

    Following that action, the Assembly adopted two texts on the situation in the Middle East.

    By a recorded vote of 163 in favour to 7 against (Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Panama, United States), with 5 abstentions (Australia, Cameroon, Côte d’Ivoire, Fiji, Tonga), the Assembly then adopted the resolution on “Jerusalem” (document A/64/L.24) (Annex V), by which it expressed grave concern at any action taken by any body -- Governmental or non-governmental -- in violation of resolutions 181 (II) (1947), 36/120 (1981), 56/31 (2001) and 478 (1980).

    Next, by a recorded vote of 116 in favour to 7 against (Canada, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, United States), with 51 abstentions, the Assembly adopted a resolution on “The Syrian Golan” (document A/64/L.25) (Annex VI), by which it declared that Israel had failed to comply with Security Council resolution 497 (1981) and that the Israeli decision of 14 December 1981 to impose its laws on the occupied Syrian Golan was null and void. Continued occupation of the Syrian Golan was a stumbling block to achieving a just, comprehensive and lasting peace in the region. It called on Israel to resume talks on the Syrian and Lebanese tracks and demanded its withdrawal from all the occupied Syrian Golan to the line of 4 June 1967.

    Speaking after action, the observer of Palestine said the resolutions sent a strong signal on the importance of upholding the clear principles of international law. The building of illegal settlements, the building of an illegal wall, and the annexation of East Jerusalem were all obstacles to peace. The resolutions were not one-sided. “We could not all of us be wrong”, he said. Israel was acting as if it was above international law and it was high time to bring it into compliance.

    Also speaking in explanation of vote after the vote on the resolutions related to Palestine were the representatives of New Zealand and Sweden (on behalf of the European Union).

    Also speaking in explanation of the vote after the vote on the resolutions related to the Middle East were the representatives of Argentina (also speaking for Brazil), Iran and Syria.

    The General Assembly will reconvene at 3 p.m. Wednesday, 2 December to take up the reports of its First Committee (Disarmament and International Security).

    Background

    The General Assembly met today to take action on draft resolutions relating to the question of Palestine and the situation in the Middle East. (For summaries of the resolutions and debate, please see press releases [GA/10894] and [GA/10895]).

    Action on Draft Resolutions under Agenda Item 16 on Question of Palestine

    Resuming its consideration of the question of Palestine, the Assembly first turned to a draft text on the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People (document A/64/L.20).

    Speaking in explanation of vote before the vote, the United States representative said, on the situation in the Middle East, his Government had clearly stated that there should be two states living side by side in peace and security. The United States was deeply saddened to be presented with unbalanced resolutions, which unlike the Assembly’s actions vis-à-vis other States, placed demands on Israel and failed to acknowledge that both sides had obligations. While the United States accepted the principle that the Assembly might look into the practices of States, resolutions under this item formed a clear pattern of institutional bias directed at one Member State. Of particular concern were three resolutions on the entities established more than a generation ago that perpetuated that bias.

    He said the millions of dollars spent on the Division of Palestinian Rights, the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People and the Special Committee to Investigate Israeli Practices could be better directed towards other issues, including direct assistance to needy Palestinians, as could staff resources. The United States had provided significant financial support to the Palestinian Authority and to Palestinian refugees. The United States was the largest single donor to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA). He reiterated the call for all to review the continued existence of those bodies with a sharp focus on what, if anything, they contributed to finding a solution to the Middle East conflict.

    In addition to those three resolutions, the Assembly would consider others that would prejudge the outcome of permanent status issues, he said. They called into question the United Nations’ credibility. Through good faith negotiations, parties could agree on an outcome that reconciled the goals of a viable Palestinian state, and the Israeli goal of a Jewish state living in secure and recognized borders. The United States’ commitment to achieving a solution of two states living side by side in peace was unwavering.

    By a recorded vote of 109 in favour to 8 against (Australia, Canada, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, United States) with 55 in abstention, the Assembly then adopted the text on the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People (document A/64/L.20) (Annex I), by which it asked the Committee to continue to exert all efforts to promote the realization of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people, including their right to self-determination. It authorized the Committee to adjust its approved work programme after considering developments and report to the Assembly.

    Further by the text, the Assembly requested the Committee to continue its cooperation and support to Palestinian and other civil organizations, as well as involve additional civil society organizations and parliamentarians in its work to mobilize support for the Palestinian people. It requested the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine, and other United Nations bodies associated with the question of Palestine, to cooperate fully with the Committee. Finally, it requested the Secretary-General to circulate the report of the Committee to all competent bodies of the United Nations and urge them to take the necessary action, as appropriate.

    The Assembly then adopted by a recorded vote of 112 in favour to 9 against (Australia, Canada, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, New Zealand and United States) with 54 in abstention, a resolution on the Division for Palestinian Rights of the Secretariat (document A/64/L.21) (Annex II), by which it requested the Secretary-General to continue to provide the Division with the necessary resources and ensure that it continued to carry out its programme of work. It requested the Division, as part of the observance of the International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People on 29 November, to continue to organize an annual exhibit on Palestinian rights or a cultural event in cooperation with the Permanent Observer Mission of Palestine.

    By a recorded vote of 162 in favour to 8 against (Australia, Canada, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau and United States) with 5 in abstentions (Benin, Cameroon, Fiji, Papua New Guinea and Tonga), the Assembly next adopted a resolution on the Special Information Programme on the Question of Palestine (document A/64/L.22) (Annex III), by which it requested the Department of Public Information, in full cooperation with the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People, to continue its special information programme for the biennium 2010-2011. It encouraged the Department to find ways for the media and civil society to engage in open and positive discussions to explore means for encouraging people-to-people dialogue and promote peace and mutual understanding in the region.

    Next, the Assembly adopted by recorded vote of 164 in favour to 7 against (Australia, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau and United States) with 4 abstentions (Cameroon, Canada, Fiji and Tonga), a resolution on the Peaceful Settlement of the question of Palestine (document A/64/L.23) (Annex IV), by which it reaffirmed the illegality of Israeli actions intended at changing the status of Jerusalem, including measures such as the so-called E-1 plan [which aims to connect Jerusalem to the West Bank and settlement of Ma’ale Adumim].

    It also reaffirmed the illegality of other unilateral measures that are contrary to international law and endeavour to alter the character, status and demographic composition of the city and the territory as a whole, among them, Israel’s construction of a wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem. It expressed deep concern at the continued Israeli policy of closures and restrictions on the movement of persons and goods, medical and humanitarian personnel and goods, continued establishment of checkpoints and imposition of a permit regime throughout the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, which had created a dire humanitarian crisis.

    Also by the text, the Assembly reaffirmed its full support for the Middle East peace process, based on the relevant United Nations resolutions, Madrid terms of reference, the Arab Peace Initiative, the Quartet Road Map and existing agreements between the Israeli and Palestinian sides. It encouraged continued regional and international efforts to promote the Arab Peace Initiative; urged parties to undertake immediate steps in follow-up to their joint understanding reached at the 2007 Annapolis Conference; and encouraged the convening of an international conference in Moscow.

    The Assembly also stressed the need for advancing reconstruction in the Gaza Strip; called on Israel to comply with its obligations under international law; and reiterated the demand for complete cessation of all Israeli settlement activities in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and in the Syrian Golan. Reaffirming its commitment to the two-State solution of Israel and Palestine, living side by side in peace and security within recognized borders, based on pre-1967 borders, the Assembly stressed the need for Israeli withdrawal from Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem.

    Finally by the text, the Assembly stressed the need for justly resolving the problem of Palestine refugees; called on parties to resume direct peace negotiations towards conclusion of a final peaceful settlement; urged States to speed provision of economic humanitarian and technical assistance to Palestinians; encouraged the Quartet’s Special Representative to strengthen Palestinian institutions and requested the Secretary-General to continue efforts towards the attainment of a peaceful settlement of the question of Palestine.

    Speaking after the vote, the representative of Israel said his Government had voted against the resolutions, as it had done in the past, because they did not reflect the reality of the region. They reflected a one-sided agenda repeated year in and year out. They did not help the conflict. People in the region needed peace based on mutual recognition, which would result from negotiations. They did not need another biased and one-sided General Assembly resolution. The Middle East required an agreement that would allow countries to live in peace.

    Speaking in explanation of its vote on resolutions A/64/L.21 and A/64/L.22, the representative of New Zealand said his country had consistently supported negotiations toward a two-state solution to the Middle East conflict. New Zealand said it was essential to approach the issues raised in these resolutions with balance and regard for the intent of the text in question.

    Regarding the resolution on the special information programme, New Zealand supported the dissemination of balanced information and welcomed this resolution’s focus on promoting dialogue between the two sides. While he voted in favour of this resolution, he called on the department’s special information programme to carry out its mandate in a manner that reflected the full spectrum of perspectives.

    Regarding the resolution on the Division for Palestinian Rights, New Zealand was not convinced that the Division was a constructive use of resources and it did little to contribute to the Middle East peace process. It voted against the resolution. But, that did not detract from its strong support for Palestinian self-determination.

    Speaking on behalf of the European Union, the representative of Sweden explained its vote regarding the resolution of the “Peaceful settlement of the Question of Palestine” (A/64/L.23). The Union urged the Palestinian Authority and Israel to enter into serious peace negotiations as soon as possible.

    The European Union was deeply concerned about the continued settlement activities and evictions in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, including East Jerusalem and reiterated that they were an obstacle to peace. It was also concerned about the recent developments in East Jerusalem and was closely following the situation around the Al Aqsa mosque and Temple Mount/Haram al Sharif.

    It was gravely concerned about the humanitarian situation in Gaza, and what was, in effect, a blockade. It consistently called for the immediate openings of crossings to let humanitarian aid, commercial goods and people go into and out of Gaza. Without that, reconstruction and economic recovery would not be possible.

    Action on Draft Resolutions under Agenda Item 15 on Situation in Middle East

    The Assembly then turned its attention to the situation in the Middle East.

    By a recorded vote of 163 in favour, to 7 against (Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Panama, United States), with 5 in abstention (Australia, Cameroon, Côte d’Ivoire, Fiji, Tonga), the Assembly then adopted the resolution on Jerusalem (document A/64/L.24) (Annex V), by which it expressed grave concern at any action taken by any body -- Governmental or non-governmental -- in violation of resolutions 181 (II) (1947), 36/120 (1981), 56/31 (2001) and 478 (1980). It expressed grave concern at Israel’s continuation of illegal settlement activities, including the so-called E-1 plan, construction of the wall around East Jerusalem and restricted access to and residence in East Jerusalem.

    Further by the text, the Assembly reiterated its determination that any actions taken by Israel to impose its laws, jurisdiction and administration on Jerusalem were illegal and, therefore, null and void. It called on Israel to immediately cease all such illegal measures and stressed that a comprehensive, just and lasting solution to the question of Jerusalem should take into account the legitimate concerns of both Palestinians and Israelis and should include internationally guaranteed provisions to ensure freedom of religion of its inhabitants. Finally, it requested the Secretary-General to report back to it at its sixty-fifth session on the implementation of the resolution.

    Next, by a recorded vote of 116 in favour, to 7 against (Canada, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, United States), with 51 in abstention, the Assembly adopted a resolution on The Syrian Golan (document A/64/L.25) (Annex VI), by which it declared that Israel had failed to comply with Security Council resolution 497 (1981) and that the Israeli decision of 14 December 1981 to impose its laws on the occupied Syrian Golan was null and void. It reaffirmed its determination that all relevant provisions annexed to the Hague Convention of 1907 and Geneva Convention relative to the protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War continue to apply.

    Byrnzie, I'm pretty sure that nowhere in this giant list you posted does it say that they were voting on the adoption of 242, nor does it say anywhere that they voted on a measure calling on Israel to withdraw from ALL of the West Bank. If you're going to post something to support your points please actually do so and don't waste my time. I'd also like to know who the abstentions are, and who the positive votes are.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • yosi
    yosi NYC Posts: 3,167
    My bad. It mentions 242 in the first bit you put in red. Except that doesn't relate to an actual vote. And if you can't find a reference to this yearly vote you keep talking about please don't imply that maybe it is being covered up by some conspiracy. Just admit that you're full of shit and claim that things happen when they don't, and then submit shit that doesn't relate to what you're talking about as proof of your false claims.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    rebornfixer, the other day you told me you are part anglo and part mesit i believe it was?? And i apologize for spelling or getting the word wrong, i truly do. but what i dont understand is if you are part indian and the white man came and stole your land from your people, how is it that you dont stand with the palestinians?? I mean i dont get it?? Am i missing something here??? Seriously bro...and yosi im saying it as to the israeli government NOT the israeli people. I dnt want anyone to confuse the 2..

    oh and pepe or byrnzie, im out of kush so anyone "got some" for me..."im gonna see my friend," but not until tomorrow :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Later in Article 7, the crime of apartheid is defined as:
    The 'crime of apartheid' means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalised regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.[12]

    Without quoting all of Pepe's post, I think the last paragraph sums it up well (but obviously the WHOLE post is a necessary read). Yosi, you cannot say this is not true, however you want to manipulate the 'true' meaning of the word apartheid.

    To put it bluntly, jews are oppressing arabs (I know... not all jews, etc. so don't go down that road). You read the definition, you know it's 'oppression and domination'. Not only of the Palestinians in Gaza but also the of the Arabs residents of Israel. As long as a 'people' (ie those of Arab descent) will be ring fenced into ghettos, will be forcibly evicted from their homes so the neighbourhood can be all jewish, will not be allowed to purchase land where they want, etc., call it as it is... apartheid. Full stop. It's shameful - Yosi, you need to take those blinkers off.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    yosi wrote:
    My bad. It mentions 242 in the first bit you put in red. Except that doesn't relate to an actual vote. And if you can't find a reference to this yearly vote you keep talking about please don't imply that maybe it is being covered up by some conspiracy.

    242 is used as the blueprint for all U.N Genral Assembly sessions that deal with the Israel - Palestinian conflict, such as the call for a ceasefire in Gaza in 2009 and the attempted implementation of U.N resolution 1860.

    All of the points highlighted in red apply to some aspect of 242. Such as:

    http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2009/ga10896.doc.htm

    'In early action, the Assembly turned its attention to Palestine with the adoption of four texts. It first adopted, by a recorded vote of 109 in favour to 8 against (Australia, Canada, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, United States) with 55 abstentions, a resolution on the “Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People” (document A/64/L.20) (for voting details, see Annex I). By that text, it asked the Committee to continue to exert all efforts to promote the realization of Palestinians’ inalienable rights, including to self-determination.'

    If you'd read the report properly then you would have seen that all aspects of the Resolutions adopted at the January emergency Session applied in some way to 242. Here it is again:

    (For summaries of the resolutions and debate, please see press releases [GA/10894] and [GA/10895]).


    GA/10894: The framework for peace remains unchanged: the creation of two States, an independent and viable Palestine living side-by-side in peace and security with Israel, on the basis of the principle of land for peace, and a just and comprehensive regional peace consistent with Security Council resolutions 242 (1967), 338 (1973), 1397 (2002), 1515 (2003), and 1850 (2008), as well as the Road Map and the Arab Peace Initiative.



    yosi wrote:
    Just admit that you're full of shit and claim that things happen when they don't, and then submit shit that doesn't relate to what you're talking about as proof of your false claims.

    Tough guy Yosi resorting to name calling and baiting again. How pathetic you are.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    yosi wrote:
    if you can't find a reference to this yearly vote you keep talking about please don't imply that maybe it is being covered up by some conspiracy. Just admit that you're full of shit and claim that things happen when they don't, and then submit shit that doesn't relate to what you're talking about as proof of your false claims.

    If you click on the link provided then you can go to the original page and click on any of the dates listed and will see that at every one of these sessions U.N Resolution 242 was mentioned and incorporated into the specific resolution at hand.

    http://www.undemocracy.com/S-RES-242%281967%29

    S-RES-242(1967) Security Council Resolution 242 (1967)

    List of all post-1994 meetings of the Security Council or General Assembly where this document was specifically mentioned.

    * 1994-03-01 Palestinian question
    * 1994-03-02 Palestinian question
    * 1994-03-18 Palestinian question
    * 1994-09-27 General debate
    * 1994-09-28 General debate
    * 1994-09-29 Address by Mr. Abdellatif Filali, Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs and Cooperation of the Kingdom of Morocco
    * 1994-10-03 General debate
    * 1994-10-03 General debate
    * 1994-10-04 Address by His Royal Highness Prince El Hassan Bin Talal, Crown Prince of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan
    * 1994-10-04 Address by Mr. Carlos Alberto Wahnon de Carvalho Veiga, Prime Minister and Minister of Defence of the Republic of Cape Verde
    * 1994-10-05 Address by Mr. Kengo Wa Dondo, Prime Minister of the Transitional Government of the Republic of Zaire
    * 1994-10-06 Address by Mr. Samuel Hinds, Prime Minister of the Republic of Guyana
    * 1994-10-10 Address by Mr. Kennedy A. Simmonds, Prime Minister and Minister for Foreign Affairs of Saint Kitts and Nevis
    * 1994-10-11 General debate
    * 1994-10-11 Address by Mr. Ntsu Mokhehle, Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Lesotho
    * 1994-11-09 Commemoration of the fiftieth anniversary of the United Nations in 1995: report of the Preparatory Committee for the Fiftieth Anniversary
    * 1994-11-15 The league of arab states
    * 1994-11-29 Question of Palestine
    * 1994-11-30 Question of Palestine
    * 1994-11-30 Question of Palestine
    * 1994-12-01 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1994-12-16 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1995-02-28 Palestinian question
    * 1995-02-28 Palestinian question
    * 1995-05-12 Palestinian question
    * 1995-05-15 Palestinian question
    * 1995-05-16 Palestinian question
    * 1995-05-17 Palestinian question
    * 1995-09-25 General debate
    * 1995-09-26 The fiftieth anniversary of the UN
    * 1995-09-27 Address by Mr. Zhan Videnov, Prime Minister of the Republic of Bulgaria
    * 1995-09-29 Address by Mr. Abdellatif Filali, Prime Minister and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Cooperation of the Kingdom of Morocco
    * 1995-10-02 Address by Mr. Janez Drnovsek, Prime Minister of the Republic of Slovenia
    * 1995-10-03 General debate
    * 1995-10-03 General debate
    * 1995-10-04 General debate
    * 1995-10-09 A-50-PV.24
    * 1995-10-10 A-50-PV.26
    * 1995-10-11 General debate
    * 1995-10-22 Address by His Excellency Mr. Yasser Arafat, Chairman of the Executive Committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization
    * 1995-10-23 Address by His Royal Highness Prince Sultan bin Abdulaziz Al Saud, Second Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Defence and Aviation and Inspector General of Saudi Arabia
    * 1995-10-24 Address by His Excellency Mr. Farouk Al-Shara', Minister for Foreign Affairs of the Syrian Arab Republic
    * 1995-10-26 Commemoration to mark the tenth anniversary of International Youth Year
    * 1995-11-20 A-50-PV.67
    * 1995-11-29 Question of Palestine
    * 1995-11-30 Question of Palestine
    * 1995-12-01 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1995-12-01 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1995-12-04 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1996-04-15 Palestinian question
    * 1996-04-15 Palestinian question
    * 1996-04-15 Middle East--UN Interim Force in Lebanon
    * 1996-04-18 Middle East--UN Interim Force in Lebanon
    * 1996-04-23 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1996-04-24 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1996-04-24 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1996-04-25 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1996-04-25 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1996-09-23 Address by His Excellency Mr. Abdellatif Filali, Prime Minister and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Cooperation of the Kingdom of Morocco
    * 1996-09-24 Address by His Excellency Mr. Andris Sk¸e¯le, Prime Minister of the Republic of Latvia
    * 1996-09-25 Address by Mr. Göran Persson, Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Sweden
    * 1996-09-26 General debate
    * 1996-09-27 Palestinian question
    * 1996-09-27 Palestinian question
    * 1996-09-30 General debate
    * 1996-09-30 General debate
    * 1996-10-01 Address by His Excellency Mr. Mendsaikhany Enkhsaikhan, Prime Minister and Minister for Foreign Affairs of Mongolia
    * 1996-10-01 General debate
    * 1996-10-02 General debate
    * 1996-10-02 General debate
    * 1996-10-03 General debate
    * 1996-10-07 General debate
    * 1996-10-08 General debate
    * 1996-11-19 The league of arab states
    * 1996-11-29 Question of Palestine
    * 1996-12-02 Question of Palestine
    * 1996-12-03 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1996-12-03 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1996-12-04 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1997-03-12 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1997-03-12 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1997-03-13 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1997-09-25 Address by The Right Honourable Percival James Patterson, Prime Minister of Jamaica
    * 1997-09-25 Address by Mr. Abdellatif Filali, Prime Minister and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Cooperation of the Kingdom of Morocco
    * 1997-09-29 Address by His Excellency The Honourable Denzil Douglas, Prime Minister and Minister for National Security, Foreign Affairs, Finance, Planning and Information of Saint Kitts and Nevis
    * 1997-09-29 General debate
    * 1997-09-30 General debate
    * 1997-10-01 General debate
    * 1997-10-02 General debate
    * 1997-10-03 General debate
    * 1997-10-06 General debate
    * 1997-10-07 General debate
    * 1997-10-22 A-52-PV.35
    * 1997-10-31 Towards a culture of peace
    * 1997-12-01 Question of Palestine
    * 1997-12-02 Question of Palestine
    * 1997-12-03 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1997-12-03 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1997-12-09 Question of Palestine
    * 1998-06-26 United Nations Disengagement Observer Force
    * 1998-06-30 Palestinian question
    * 1998-06-30 Palestinian question
    * 1998-07-13 Palestinian question
    * 1998-09-21 Address by Mr. Keizo Obuchi, Prime Minister of Japan
    * 1998-09-22 General debate
    * 1998-09-23 Address by The Honourable Mr. Navinchandra Ramgoolam, Prime Minster of the Republic of Mauritius
    * 1998-09-23 Address by Mr. Hassan Gouled Aptidon, President of the Republic of Djibouti
    * 1998-09-24 Address by Mr. Rafic Hariri, Prime Minister and President of the Council of Ministers of the Lebanese Republic
    * 1998-09-25 General debate
    * 1998-09-25 General debate
    * 1998-09-28 General debate
    * 1998-09-28 Address by Mr. James Michel, Vice-President of the Seychelles
    * 1998-09-29 General debate
    * 1998-10-01 General debate
    * 1998-10-22 The league of arab states
    * 1998-11-10 Culture of peace
    * 1998-11-10 Culture of peace
    * 1998-11-30 Question of Palestine
    * 1998-12-01 Question of Palestine
    * 1998-12-01 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1998-12-02 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1999-06-08 United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon
    * 1999-09-17 Civilians in armed conflict
    * 1999-09-20 Address by Mr. Lionel Jospin, Prime Minister of the French Republic
    * 1999-09-21 Address by Mr. Mikulás Dzurinda, Prime Minister of the Slovak Republic
    * 1999-09-23 Address by His Serene Highness Crown Prince Albert, Crown Prince of the Principality of Monaco
    * 1999-09-23 Address by Mr. Salim El-Hoss, Prime Minister of Lebanon
    * 1999-09-29 Address by Mr. Mahathir Mohamad, Prime Minister of Malaysia
    * 1999-09-30 Address by The Honourable Said Musa, Prime Minister and Minister of Finance and Foreign Affairs of Belize
    * 1999-09-30 Address by Mr. Ibrahim Assane Mayaki, Prime Minister of the Republic of the Niger
    * 1999-10-01 General debate
    * 1999-10-01 General debate
    * 1999-10-26 The league of arab states
    * 1999-11-10 Bethlehem 2000
    * 1999-11-29 Question of Palestine
    * 1999-11-29 Role of United Nations
    * 1999-11-30 Question of Palestine
    * 1999-11-30 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1999-12-01 The situation in the Middle East
    * 1999-12-15 Assistance to the Palestinian people
    * 2000-04-20 Middle East--UN Interim Force in Lebanon
    * 2000-05-23 Middle East--UN Interim Force in Lebanon
    * 2000-06-15 Tribute to the memory of Hafez Al-Assad, President of the Syrian Arab Republic
    * 2000-06-18 Middle East--UN Interim Force in Lebanon
    * 2000-09-06 Addresses on the occasion of the Summit
    * 2000-09-07 Addresses on the occasion of the Summit
    * 2000-09-08 Addresses on the occasion of the Summit
    * 2000-09-13 General debate
    * 2000-09-13 General debate
    * 2000-09-14 General debate
    * 2000-09-15 General debate
    * 2000-09-16 Address by The Honourable Laisenia Qarase, Prime Minister and Minister for National Reconciliation and Unity of the Republic of Fiji
    * 2000-09-16 General debate
    * 2000-09-18 General debate
    * 2000-09-18 General debate
    * 2000-09-19 General debate
    * 2000-09-20 General debate
    * 2000-10-03 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2000-10-04 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2000-10-05 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2000-10-17 Report of the Security Council
    * 2000-10-30 The league of arab states
    * 2000-11-07 Bethlehem 2000
    * 2000-11-08 The inter-parliamentary union
    * 2000-11-22 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2000-11-29 Question of Palestine
    * 2000-11-30 Question of Palestine
    * 2000-11-30 The situation in the Middle East
    * 2000-12-01 The situation in the Middle East
    * 2000-12-12 Measures to eliminate international terrorism
    * 2000-12-18 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2001-03-15 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2001-03-15 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2001-03-19 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2001-03-27 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2001-07-13 Report of the Secretary-General on the work of the Organization
    * 2001-08-20 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2001-08-20 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2001-08-21 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2001-09-26 Report of the Secretary-General on the work of the Organization
    * 2001-10-04 Measures to eliminate international terrorism
    * 2001-10-16 Report of the Security Council
    * 2001-10-31 Question of equitable representation on and increase in the membership of the Security Council
    * 2001-11-10 General debate
    * 2001-11-10 Address by Mr. Alhaji Aliu Mahama, Vice-President of the Republic of Ghana
    * 2001-11-11 Address by Mr. Glafcos Clerides, President of the Republic of Cyprus
    * 2001-11-11 Address by His Serene Highness Crown Prince Albert, Crown Prince of the Principality of Monaco
    * 2001-11-12 General debate
    * 2001-11-12 General debate
    * 2001-11-13 Address by Mr. Nambar Enkhbayar, Prime Minister of Mongolia
    * 2001-11-13 General debate
    * 2001-11-14 General debate
    * 2001-11-15 General debate
    * 2001-11-16 Address by Mrs. Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo, President of the Republic of the Philippines
    * 2001-11-27 Special economic assistance to individual countries or regions || Strengthening of international cooperation and coordination of efforts to study, mitigate and minimize the consequences of the Chernobyl disaster || Participation of volunteers, "White Helmets", in the activities of the United Nations in the field of humanitarian relief, rehabilitation and technical cooperation for development || Assistance to the Palestinian people
    * 2001-11-29 Question of Palestine
    * 2001-11-30 Question of Palestine
    * 2001-11-30 The situation in the Middle East
    * 2001-12-03 The situation in the Middle East
    * 2001-12-07 Cooperation between the United Nations and the Latin American Economic System || Cooperation between the United Nations and the International Organization of la Francophonie || Cooperation between the United Nations and the Council of Europe || Cooperation between the United Nations and the Organization of the Islamic Conference || Cooperation between the United Nations and the League of Arab States || Cooperation between the United Nations and the Inter-Parliamentary Union || Cooperation between the United Nations and the Economic Community of Central African States || Cooperation between the United Nations and the Economic Cooperation Organization || Cooperation between the United Nations and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe || Cooperation between the United Nations and the Preparatory Commission for the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty Organization || Cooperation between the United Nations and the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons || Cooperation between the United Nations and the Pacific Islands Forum
    * 2001-12-14 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2001-12-21 United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon
    * 2002-01-18 Peace and security--terrorist acts
    * 2002-02-26 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2002-02-27 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2002-03-12 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2002-03-12 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2002-03-29 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2002-04-03 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2002-04-03 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2002-04-04 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2002-04-08 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2002-04-09 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2002-04-18 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2002-04-19 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2002-05-03 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2002-06-13 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2002-06-13 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2002-06-27 Financing of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon
    * 2002-07-18 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2002-07-24 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2002-09-12 Report of the Secretary-General on the work of the Organization
    * 2002-09-12 Address by Mr. Luis Angel González Macchi, President of the Republic of Paraguay
    * 2002-09-13 General debate
    * 2002-09-14 Address by His Royal Highness Prince 'Ulukalala Lavaka Ata, Prime Minister and Minister for Foreign Affairs of the Kingdom of Tonga
    * 2002-09-14 General debate
    * 2002-09-15 Address by His Excellency Mr. Olusegun Obasanjo, President and Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Federal Republic of Nigeria
    * 2002-09-15 General debate
    * 2002-09-17 Address by Mr. Tuilaepa Sailele Malielegaoi, Prime Minister and Minister for Foreign Affairs of the Independent State of Samoa
    * 2002-09-17 Address by His Serene Highness Crown Prince Albert, Crown Prince of the Principality of Monaco
    * 2002-09-18 General debate
    * 2002-09-18 Address by The Honourable Ranil Wickremesinghe, Prime Minister of the Democratic Socialist Republic of Sri Lanka
    * 2002-09-19 Address by Mr. Laisenia Qarase, Prime Minster of Fiji
    * 2002-09-19 General debate
    * 2002-09-20 Address by Mr. Sibusiso Barnabas Dlamini, Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Swaziland
    * 2002-09-20 Address by Ms. Sandra Pierantozzi, Vice-President and Minister of Health of the Republic of Palau
    * 2002-09-23 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2002-09-23 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2002-10-07 Follow-up to the outcome of the Millennium Summit
    * 2002-10-14 Report of the Security Council
    * 2002-10-14 Question of equitable representation on and increase in the membership of the Security Council
    * 2002-10-17 Iraq--Kuwait
    * 2002-11-21 A-57-PV.56
    * 2002-11-29 Question of Palestine
    * 2002-12-02 Question of Palestine
    * 2002-12-02 The situation in the Middle East
    * 2002-12-03 The situation in the Middle East
    * 2002-12-16 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2003-03-19 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2003-03-27 Iraq--Kuwait
    * 2003-05-06 Peace and security--terrorist acts
    * 2003-05-13 Role of United Nations
    * 2003-05-19 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2003-06-13 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2003-07-17 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2003-08-19 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2003-09-15 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2003-09-15 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2003-09-16 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2003-09-23 Address by His Highness Sheikh Sabah Al-Ahmad Al-Jaber Al-Sabah, Prime Minister of Kuwait
    * 2003-09-25 Address by Mr. Bertie Ahern, Prime Minister of Ireland
    * 2003-09-26 Address by The Honourable Tuilaepa Sailele Malielegaoi, Prime Minister, Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade of the Independent State of Samoa
    * 2003-09-29 General debate
    * 2003-10-05 Israel--Syria
    * 2003-10-06 Follow up to the outcome of the Millennium Summit
    * 2003-10-07 Follow-up to the outcome of the Millennium Summit
    * 2003-10-07 Follow-up to the outcome of the Millennium Summit
    * 2003-10-13 Report of the Security Council
    * 2003-10-13 Report of the Security Council
    * 2003-10-14 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2003-12-01 Question of Palestine
    * 2003-12-02 Question of Palestine
    * 2003-12-02 The situation in the Middle East
    * 2003-12-03 The situation in the Middle East
    * 2003-12-12 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2004-01-16 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2004-02-18 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2004-03-18 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2004-03-23 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2004-04-19 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2004-05-06 Question of Palestine
    * 2004-05-06 Question of Palestine
    * 2004-05-19 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2004-06-23 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2004-07-20 Cooperation between the United Nations and regional organizations in stabilization processes
    * 2004-08-11 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2004-09-02 Middle East--Lebanon
    * 2004-09-17 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2004-09-21 Address by Mr. Göran Persson, Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Sweden
    * 2004-09-22 Address by Mr. Oscar Berger Perdomo, President of the Republic of Guatemala
    * 2004-09-23 Address by His Serene Highness Prince Albert, Crown Prince of the Principality of Monaco
    * 2004-09-24 Address by The Honourable Winston Baldwin Spencer, Prime Minister and Minister of Labour of Antigua and Barbuda
    * 2004-09-27 Address by The Honourable Dato'Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, Prime Minister of Malaysia
    * 2004-09-27 General debate
    * 2004-09-28 General debate
    * 2004-10-04 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2004-10-07 Report of the Secretary-General on the work of the Organization
    * 2004-10-12 Report of the Security Council
    * 2004-10-22 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2004-11-11 Assistance to the Palestinian people
    * 2004-11-11 Tribute to the memory of His Excellency Mr. Yasser Arafat, late President of the Palestinian Authority
    * 2004-11-15 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2004-11-29 Question of Palestine
    * 2004-11-30 Question of Palestine
    * 2004-11-30 The situation in the Middle East
    * 2004-12-01 The situation in the Middle East
    * 2005-01-13 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2005-01-28 Middle East--UN Interim Force in Lebanon
    * 2005-02-16 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2005-03-09 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2005-07-21 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2005-07-21 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2005-09-20 Address by Mr. Carlos Gomes, Jr., Prime Minister of the Republic of Guinea-Bissau
    * 2005-09-23 Address by Mr. Adnan Terzi, Chairman of the Council of Ministers of Bosnia and Herzegovina
    * 2005-09-23 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2005-10-20 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2005-11-10 Question of equitable representation on and increase in the membership of the Security Council
    * 2005-11-29 Question of Palestine
    * 2005-11-30 Question of Palestine
    * 2005-11-30 Question of Palestine
    * 2005-11-30 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2005-12-01 The situation in the Middle East
    * 2006-01-31 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2006-02-03 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2006-03-30 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2006-04-17 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2006-04-21 Middle East
    * 2006-06-30 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2006-07-21 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2006-08-11 Middle East
    * 2006-08-22 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2006-09-21 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2006-09-22 Address by Mr. Redley Killion, Vice-President of the Federated States of Micronesia
    * 2006-09-26 General debate
    * 2006-09-27 General debate
    * 2006-10-19 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2006-11-09 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2006-11-09 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2006-11-21 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2006-11-29 Question of Palestine
    * 2006-11-30 Question of Palestine
    * 2006-11-30 The situation in the Middle East
    * 2006-12-01 The situation in the Middle East
    * 2006-12-11 Question of equitable representation on and increase in the membership of the Security Council
    * 2006-12-12 Middle East
    * 2007-02-13 Middle East
    * 2007-02-13 Middle East
    * 2007-04-17 Middle East
    * 2007-04-25 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2007-05-24 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2007-08-03 Middle East
    * 2007-08-29 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2007-08-29 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2007-09-27 A-62-PV.8
    * 2007-10-02 A-62-PV.14
    * 2007-11-13 A-62-PV.49
    * 2007-11-29 A-62-PV.58
    * 2007-11-30 A-62-PV.59
    * 2007-11-30 A-62-PV.60
    * 2007-12-10 A-62-PV.65
    * 2008-01-22 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2008-01-22 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2008-01-30 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2008-02-26 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2008-03-25 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2008-03-25 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2008-04-15 Middle East
    * 2008-06-27 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2008-07-22 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2008-07-22 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2008-08-20 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2008-09-26 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2008-11-03 A-63-PV.37
    * 2008-11-19 A-63-PV.55
    * 2008-11-24 A-63-PV.57
    * 2008-11-25 A-63-PV.58
    * 2008-11-25 A-63-PV.59
    * 2008-11-26 A-63-PV.60
    * 2008-12-16 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2008-12-18 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2008-12-18 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2008-12-31 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2009-01-06 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2009-01-07 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2009-03-25 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2009-03-25 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2009-04-20 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2009-05-11 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2009-07-27 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2009-07-27 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2009-10-14 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * 2009-10-14 Middle East--Palestinian question
    * unknown Address by Mr. Efraín Goldenberg Schreiber, Prime Minister and Minister for Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Peru
    * unknown General Debate
    * unknown Address by His Serene Highness Prince Albert, Crown Prince of Monaco
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited March 2010
    yosi wrote:
    Just admit that you're full of shit and claim that things happen when they don't, and then submit shit that doesn't relate to what you're talking about as proof of your false claims.

    Or maybe you're the one whose full of shit.

    We'll let anyone reading this thread make up their own minds about that shall we?
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • Isn't the Corrie family in Israel to ask why you have to import your bulldozer drivers from Germany?

    The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08

  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    oh, i agree they don't dislike them because they are Palestinians, they dislike them because they won't leave

    Which is why its possible to argue against the use of this term in this situation ... Apartheid focuses on group membership specifically, not other reasons for oppression.


    fine, i will just repost it, this is what the UN and ICC call apartheid, both of them name a few things Israel does against the Palestinians, it doesn't just have to be a perfect recreation of South Africa

    ICSPCA definition of the crime of apartheid

    Article II of the ICSPCA defines the crime of apartheid as follows:
    International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid,
    Article II[1]

    For the purpose of the present Convention, the term 'the crime of apartheid', which shall include similar policies and practices of racial segregation and discrimination as practiced in southern Africa, shall apply to the following inhumane acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them:
    Denial to a member or members of a racial group or groups of the right to life and liberty of person
    By murder of members of a racial group or groups;
    By the infliction upon the members of a racial group or groups of serious bodily or mental harm, by the infringement of their freedom or dignity, or by subjecting them to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment;
    By arbitrary arrest and illegal imprisonment of the members of a racial group or groups;
    Deliberate imposition on a racial group or groups of living conditions calculated to cause its or their physical destruction in whole or in part;
    Any legislative measures and other measures calculated to prevent a racial group or groups from participation in the political, social, economic and cultural life of the country and the deliberate creation of conditions preventing the full development of such a group or groups, in particular by denying to members of a racial group or groups basic human rights and freedoms, including the right to work, the right to form recognised trade unions, the right to education, the right to leave and to return to their country, the right to a nationality, the right to freedom of movement and residence, the right to freedom of opinion and expression, and the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association;
    Any measures including legislative measures, designed to divide the population along racial lines by the creation of separate reserves and ghettos for the members of a racial group or groups, the prohibition of mixed marriages among members of various racial groups, the expropriation of landed property belonging to a racial group or groups or to members thereof;
    Exploitation of the labour of the members of a racial group or groups, in particular by submitting them to forced labour;
    Persecution of organizations and persons, by depriving them of fundamental rights and freedoms, because they oppose apartheid.
    [edit]ICC definition of the crime of apartheid

    Article 7 of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court defines crimes against humanity as:
    Article 7
    Crimes against humanity
    For the purpose of this Statute, 'crime against humanity' means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack:
    Murder;
    Extermination;
    Enslavement;
    Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
    Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law;
    Torture;
    Rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;
    Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court;
    Enforced disappearance of persons;
    The crime of apartheid;
    Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health.[12]
    Later in Article 7, the crime of apartheid is defined as:
    The 'crime of apartheid' means inhumane acts of a character similar to those referred to in paragraph 1, committed in the context of an institutionalised regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.[12]


    did you get a chance to read this, yosi? i noticed you replied in this thread twice after me but not to this....
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • yosi
    yosi NYC Posts: 3,167
    Pepe I did read it. It specifically stresses in the definition of apartheid that the crime involves one racial group dominating and oppressing another racial group, and seeking to do so in perpetuity. That is not what is happening in Israel. The emphasis placed on race in the definition makes it clear that for "apartheid" to apply the crime has to be racially motivated. Israel, to repeat the obvious yet again, is not motivated by racial concerns. Furthermore, neither Israelis nor Palestinians constitute a racial group. They are both national groups, and in the case of Israelis at least, it is a national group that is incredibly racially diverse. You keep focusing on the part of the definition that says "one group oppressing another," but you ignore everything else.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    badbrains wrote:
    rebornfixer, the other day you told me you are part anglo and part mesit i believe it was?? And i apologize for spelling or getting the word wrong, i truly do. but what i dont understand is if you are part indian and the white man came and stole your land from your people, how is it that you dont stand with the palestinians?? I mean i dont get it?? Am i missing something here??? Seriously bro...and yosi im saying it as to the israeli government NOT the israeli people. I dnt want anyone to confuse the 2..

    oh and pepe or byrnzie, im out of kush so anyone "got some" for me..."im gonna see my friend," but not until tomorrow :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

    Well, for the record, I do not stand against the Palestinians. I strongly feel that they have a right to live in peace, ideally in their own country, and that their culture should be preserved. I have been pretty up front in saying that Israel is in the wrong when it comes to settlement expansion and using heavy-handed tactics in Lebanon and Gaza. I do find at least one aspect of Palestinian culture to be incredibly distasteful, and that is the attitude about violence and the glorification of martyrs. This attitude is not universal, but its pervasive enough that the Israelis continue to use it to justify things like settlement expansion. My position on the issue is wholly pragmatic: If the Israelis are going to stop the violence, the Palestinians will need to renounce organizations like Hamas. I cannot see another way lasting peace will occur: People often require at least the perception of compromise if they are going to change their behavior with regards to another group, although I do feel that the Israelis should probably be the ones to take the first step and cease all settlement expansion. I've seen you post things to the effect of "violence is not the answer", so I don't think our positions are all that different.
    The land grab issue is old history, both in North America and the Middle East. Its sad but true. In the North American case, aboriginal people have done a heck of a job preserving some of the old ways, even in the face of full-on oppression and what some refer to as "cultural genocide". To my way of thinking, it makes more sense to work toward preserving what still exists and toward bettering the lot of one's people, as opposed to focusing on past wrongs and staying bitter, as if doing so will somehow turn back time and bring back the days of yore. I have a few friends who disagree with me on this, calling it white's man's thinking. Sure, maybe so. I still feel that being pragmatic has nothing to do with skin color. No one has demonstrated to me that bitterness truly helps one to shake off oppression: Its just another form of said oppression. These arguments about who was where first are neither here nor there at this point in history. The reality is that North America is now a very diverse place, and the reality is that Israel is not going anywhere. Palestinians and Jews are going to have to learn to live near one another, or die trying.