Pit Censorship

samnation · July 2008

Mohab wrote:

If only you werent oversimplifying to the point of not making sense, we both agree over the top name calling is not cool, its not the same as swearing and being crude, nor does it seem to be categorically the only reason for censorship. If you say - eddie vedder is an asshole, maybe that is worth censoring if it is totally hateful and pointless, but if you say he was an asshole when he said those things to that little girl who flashed him at the show I was just at and you get censored, thats not cool - but entirely what you seem ok condoning.

other threads and posts may dissapear which have no name calling, but are anti this or that issue related to pj

Well obviously I'm not a moderator of this board so I can't vouch for their decisions or what the circumstances were in every thread that comes under scrutiny. But I have had some experience moderating other boards and in general it's a case-by-case situation. So in order to speak on this in a general way I am definitely simplifying things.

When I was a moderator, I remember that there were some people who really only posted things to get a rise out of people and start flame wars. So if a person like that posted "[Main Person] is an a**hole!", there would be a pretty good reason to believe it served no purpose other than to get people worked up and spitting venom. And who needs that? But if someone said "[Main Person] is an a**hole!" in the context of a legitimate complaint (no one is perfect, people f*ck up, even rock stars) then it would probably deserve a listen.

If we can steer the conversation in a more constructive direction instead of name-calling and over-emotional tirades, then we can all benefit from what's being discussed. Maybe Eddie was an a**hole, let's talk about it instead of shouting "No, YOU'RE the a**hole!" or "Yes, he is the HUGEST a**hole on the entire planet!"

Cosmo · July 2008

Mohab wrote:

not too many people beleieve in unconditional freedom of speech, i think pj are exceptioal also in that they stand up for free speech often and call it whatever you like, cutting posts and threads here in cesorship by defination,

...
Are you speaking in General Terms... or are you addressing a specific case?
Because in General... as I am stating... the threads I have witnessed getting deleted are the ones that degenerate into ones where personal name calling and/or threats are made.
In General terms... you want those tossed out to maintane order.
...
And there is no such thing as unconditional free Speech anywhere in the United States... the whole shouting "FIRE!!!" in a crowded theater thing... or just try making statements about bombs and guns the next time you are at the airport. There ARE conditions on free speech... whether you believe in unconditional free speech or not.

Mohab · July 2008

samnation wrote:

Well obviously I'm not a moderator of this board so I can't vouch for their decisions or what the circumstances were in every thread that comes under scrutiny. But I have had some experience moderating other boards and in general it's a case-by-case situation. So in order to speak on this in a general way I am definitely simplifying things.

When I was a moderator, I remember that there were some people who really only posted things to get a rise out of people and start flame wars. So if a person like that posted "[Main Person] is an a**hole!", there would be a pretty good reason to believe it served no purpose other than to get people worked up and spitting venom. And who needs that? But if someone said "[Main Person] is an a**hole!" in the context of a legitimate complaint (no one is perfect, people f*ck up, even rock stars) then it would probably deserve a listen.

If we can steer the conversation in a more constructive direction instead of name-calling and over-emotional tirades, then we can all benefit from what's being discussed. Maybe Eddie was an a**hole, let's talk about it instead of shouting "No, YOU'RE the a**hole!" or "Yes, he is the HUGEST a**hole on the entire planet!"

Either way, if a post has no interst and is pure profanity it would have no interst and would sink anyway. Informal sanctions like social remonstrations work, i just don't liek the heavy handedness ive seen with some posts and the posters may have been negatively affected unjustly, for instance when a thread they started about losing all faith in pearl jam is not only bashed but censored. ive never seen a thread entielry based on calling someone an asshole but sounds like an over the top easy choice type for a thread kill, my issue is that soemtimes over the last few years ive noticed a questionable - not entirely corrupt at all, maybe even well meaning - margin for censorship whcih in my opinion strays from obvious cases to ones that leave bad tastes and are worth wondering, even discussing about whether its cool, or heaven forbid we should just go be rmers for life. Peace to whoevers moderating too but I wanted to air this out - I am grateful for the chance.

Mohab · July 2008

Cosmo wrote:

...
Are you speaking in General Terms... or are you addressing a specific case?
Because in General... as I am stating... the threads I have witnessed getting deleted are the ones that degenerate into ones where personal name calling and/or threats are made.
In General terms... you want those tossed out to maintane order.
...
And there is no such thing as unconditional free Speech anywhere in the United States... the whole shouting "FIRE!!!" in a crowded theater thing... or just try making statements about bombs and guns the next time you are at the airport. There ARE conditions on free speech... whether you believe in unconditional free speech or not.

the yelling fire example is familir to me, i am not saying total freedom, just more transparant censorship where to be honest, an important issue (music) and often very good music is being discussed. ive read the rules here and want to be in compliance, my threads are not high on the censored list, i just see a slightly shadowy trend and reacted fianlly

muppet · July 2008

[Edit: War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength. - 10C]

Cosmo · July 2008

Mohab wrote:

the yelling fire example is familir to me, i am not saying total freedom, just more transparant censorship where to be honest, an important issue (music) and often very good music is being discussed. ive read the rules here and want to be in compliance, my threads are not high on the censored list, i just see a slightly shadowy trend and reacted fianlly

...
We agree... there is no such thing as unconditional Free Speech. Good.
Now, regarding the alleged 'censorship' that is going on in here... is it censorship... or moderation?
You spoke of a thread about a guy 'losing faith in Pearl Jam' that got a lot of bashing and ultimately got deleted. I missed that one.
Was the thread deleted due to the initial content... 'losing faith in Pearl Jam'?
Or was the thread deleted because some of the 'bashing' got out of hand?
The former is censorship... the latter is moderation. How do you know it was censorship on the part of the board's moderator?

Cosmo · July 2008

Also... if the moderators had as sick of a sense of humor as I do... they'd delete this thread.
...
It'd be funny... wouldn't it? I think so... because of my sick sense of humor... which is why I wouldn't make a very good moderator.

Mohab · July 2008

Well, Ive said my two cents, peace and love to all, just wanted to air out something that has irked me when I notice post and thread deletes that are in my opinion slightly questionable. Cosmo, I dont really know what you are getting at, I'm short of brain power these days. thanks for the reply though. Time to get back to work or I'll be getting censored by the attendant at the local job bank on my next broadcast.

Mohab · July 2008

Cosmo wrote:

Also... if the moderators had as sick of a sense of humor as I do... they'd delete this thread.
...
It'd be funny... wouldn't it? I think so... because of my sick sense of humor... which is why I wouldn't make a very good moderator.

I was hoping it would go down that way, i wouldn't have said anything and had a much needed laugh

slightofjeff · July 2008

hopethatuchoke wrote:

So Eddie insulting Good Charlotte and going off on dickhead President Bush and the war is ok but being negative here isn't?

Who said you can't be negative? There are many, many, many negative threads on this board right this second. You don't have to try very hard to find them.

mattcozea · July 2008

Cosmo wrote:

You spoke of a thread about a guy 'losing faith in Pearl Jam' that got a lot of bashing and ultimately got deleted. I missed that one.

I'm pretty sure he's referring to this thread: http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=293211

Everyone was pretty brutal in bashing the guy(were they wrong?), but it wasn't deleted or censored in any way. Maybe it was some other thread though.

slightofjeff · July 2008

mattcoz wrote:

I'm pretty sure he's referring to this thread: http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=293211

Everyone was pretty brutal in bashing the guy(were they wrong?), but it wasn't deleted or censored in any way. Maybe it was some other thread though.

I almost think the OP doesn't realize that just because a thread slips off the first page doesn't mean it was deleted.

That one wasn't very hard to find on the second page.

Cosmo · July 2008

mattcoz wrote:

I'm pretty sure he's referring to this thread: http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=293211

Everyone was pretty brutal in bashing the guy(were they wrong?), but it wasn't deleted or censored in any way. Maybe it was some other thread though.

...
Oh yeah... that dude. He went to 8 gigs and was pissed that each one wasn't completely different or some crazy shit. Kind of a, "Well.. what the hell did you expect?" kind of thing, right?
And it's still here... I'm trying to think which one got deleted. I must have missed it.
And i admit to being moderated... not censored. I got 5 for fighting a while ago for calling a lying sack of shit... "a lying sack of shit" over in the Moving Train. The thread got deleted, not because of what the original message said... it was because me and the lying sack of shit were getting into it.

Pit Censorship

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