Yet another barrier to pregnancy prevention
Comments
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Starfall wrote:I'm surprised nobody's mention a major hurdle for women seeking contraception - in many states pharmacists are allowed to deny sales of contraceptives based on personal religious beliefs.
So heaven help you women if you need a morning after pill and find yourself in the only drugstore within 100 miles, and having to deal with Fundamentalist Pharma.
We've had threads addressing that kind of thing before. But the bottom line is that every single thread around here that addresses reproductive health is turned into a "she's just irresponsible & should've kept her legs closed" thread. Go ahead & try it. Start a thread about abortion or something & see what happens. The most absurd part of this disheartening phenomenon is that usually the people who say women should be more responsible are the same ones who are fine with all the barriers to them being responsible. They have no interest in the reality of reproductive health. And why should they? They're generally men & don't have to take any responsibility for it themselves. So they just sit up on their high horses condemning women who have sex, and yet still expecting women to fuck them when they want it. I have no doubt that if men could get pregnant all contraception would be covered.0 -
scb wrote:I'm not surprised, though, how easily EVERY thread around here about the consequences of sex is turned against the women. :roll:
It's about a women in this thread because you brought up a story about a woman... If it was about a guy thinking that he may have gotten a chick pregnant, then this thread would be about a guy.My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln0 -
blackredyellow wrote:scb wrote:I'm not surprised, though, how easily EVERY thread around here about the consequences of sex is turned against the women. :roll:
It's about a women in this thread because you brought up a story about a woman... If it was about a guy thinking that he may have gotten a chick pregnant, then this thread would be about a guy.
I guess. Of course, I've never seen a thread on here about a guy concerned about being sexually responsible. Not once. And the threads about unintended pregnancy in general are always about condemning women. Always.0 -
scb wrote:inmytree wrote:I find it interesting that this person is so paranoid about being prego when a condom and the ol' pull out method was used...
It's called being extra responsible. Much as many of you bitch about personal responsibility and unintended pregnancy & abortion all the time, you should be singing her praises. I'm not surprised, though, how easily EVERY thread around here about the consequences of sex is turned against the women. :roll:inmytree wrote:call me kooky, I never had insurance cover non-prescription medication...has anyone...?
Every insurance plan I've ever had has covered medication when you have a prescription, even if it's also available without one.
A) the victim stance you're displaying is old and tired...
you've had some pretty sweet insurance...good for you...sorry to hear that you don't anymore...
C) did she have a prescription in hand or not...?
D) the "system" allowed her to purchase this pill...meaning it was available to her...are you telling me she doesn't have a credit card or any sort of savings for emergencies..?0 -
scb wrote:inmytree wrote:I find it interesting that this person is so paranoid about being prego when a condom and the ol' pull out method was used...
It's called being extra responsible. Much as many of you bitch about personal responsibility and unintended pregnancy & abortion all the time, you should be singing her praises. I'm not surprised, though, how easily EVERY thread around here about the consequences of sex is turned against the women. :roll:inmytree wrote:call me kooky, I never had insurance cover non-prescription medication...has anyone...?
Every insurance plan I've ever had has covered medication when you have a prescription, even if it's also available without one.
You know, it's getting really old your "against the women" comments. It doesn't allow for any real discussion if you are going to go ahead and label people as sexist for disagreeing with you.hippiemom = goodness0 -
scb wrote:blackredyellow wrote:scb wrote:I'm not surprised, though, how easily EVERY thread around here about the consequences of sex is turned against the women. :roll:
It's about a women in this thread because you brought up a story about a woman... If it was about a guy thinking that he may have gotten a chick pregnant, then this thread would be about a guy.
I guess. Of course, I've never seen a thread on here about a guy concerned about being sexually responsible. Not once. And the threads about unintended pregnancy in general are always about condemning women. Always.
It's pretty obvious that the guy in this story was either a complete idiot or just an ass. The only question I have, since they were good friends and all, why didn't she ask him when he took the condom off? Did he tell her and she not believe him?hippiemom = goodness0 -
inmytree wrote:A) the victim stance you're displaying is old and tired... you've had some pretty sweet insurance...good for you...sorry to hear that you don't anymore...
C) did she have a prescription in hand or not...?
D) the "system" allowed her to purchase this pill...meaning it was available to her...are you telling me she doesn't have a credit card or any sort of savings for emergencies..?
A) :roll: Yes, I have. And I work hard for it, as do the rest of us. And I don't find it acceptable for them to decrease the quality of our insurance without at least consulting us first.
C) She did once I called it in for her, within 5 minutes of arriving at the pharmacy.
D) I didn't run a background check on her. She said she couldn't afford it and I took her at her word. I know that EVERYONE around here is on a tight budget for this paycheck.
When are people going to understand that just because healthcare is "available" doesn't mean it's accessible? And when they we going to learn to see the connection between inaccessibility of healthcare and so many of the issues they act like they're victims of (like welfare issues)?0 -
cincybearcat wrote:scb wrote:inmytree wrote:I find it interesting that this person is so paranoid about being prego when a condom and the ol' pull out method was used...
It's called being extra responsible. Much as many of you bitch about personal responsibility and unintended pregnancy & abortion all the time, you should be singing her praises. I'm not surprised, though, how easily EVERY thread around here about the consequences of sex is turned against the women. :roll:inmytree wrote:call me kooky, I never had insurance cover non-prescription medication...has anyone...?
Every insurance plan I've ever had has covered medication when you have a prescription, even if it's also available without one.
You know, it's getting really old your "against the women" comments. It doesn't allow for any real discussion if you are going to go ahead and label people as sexist for disagreeing with you.
It's also getting really old that, even when given an example of a woman who is responsible, people around here still feel the need to accuse her of being irresponsible and then use that as an excuse to wipe their hands of the issue. I could have given an example of a woman who is married and has her tubes tied and some people would have still accused her being irresponsible.
EDIT TO ADD: I haven't labeled anyone as sexist. And you know what else doesn't allow for any real discussion? People just dismissing the issue as the woman's fault.Post edited by _ on0 -
cincybearcat wrote:It's pretty obvious that the guy in this story was either a complete idiot or just an ass. The only question I have, since they were good friends and all, why didn't she ask him when he took the condom off? Did he tell her and she not believe him?
I don't know, but that's not the point. He could have used the condom perfectly correctly (which most guys don't) and she could have every faith that he did. But nothing's 100% and, if people are so concerned about women being "responsible" and the prevention of uninted pregnancy, they should encourage a system that encourages women to go the extra mile to back up their birth control.0 -
scb wrote:cincybearcat wrote:It's pretty obvious that the guy in this story was either a complete idiot or just an ass. The only question I have, since they were good friends and all, why didn't she ask him when he took the condom off? Did he tell her and she not believe him?
I don't know, but that's not the point. He could have used the condom perfectly correctly (which most guys don't) and she could have every faith that he did. But nothing's 100% and, if people are so concerned about women being "responsible" and the prevention of uninted pregnancy, they should encourage a system that encourages women to go the extra mile to back up their birth control.
Like I already said, it should we WAY easier for people to continue their prescriptions without all the redundant paperwork.
As for the EC, I'm torn. It certainly was available. Insurance companies do cover prescriptions of some over-the counter drugs (prilosec, etc.) but not all. $50 is quite a price tag but I do not know how much $ went into developing the drug, etc.hippiemom = goodness0 -
scb wrote:inmytree wrote:A) the victim stance you're displaying is old and tired... you've had some pretty sweet insurance...good for you...sorry to hear that you don't anymore...
C) did she have a prescription in hand or not...?
D) the "system" allowed her to purchase this pill...meaning it was available to her...are you telling me she doesn't have a credit card or any sort of savings for emergencies..?
A) :roll: Yes, I have. And I work hard for it, as do the rest of us. And I don't find it acceptable for them to decrease the quality of our insurance without at least consulting us first.
C) She did once I called it in for her, within 5 minutes of arriving at the pharmacy.
D) I didn't run a background check on her. She said she couldn't afford it and I took her at her word. I know that EVERYONE around here is on a tight budget for this paycheck.
When are people going to understand that just because healthcare is "available" doesn't mean it's accessible? And when they we going to learn to see the connection between inaccessibility of healthcare and so many of the issues they act like they're victims of (like welfare issues)?
and when you going to understand that people need to be responsible for there actions and choices...?
in point B, you say you want to be consulted...I wonder what sort of world you live in, because no insurance company is going to consult you...didn't you and your co-worker received information about your insurance plan changes...? I'd be willing to bet that you did...I'd also be willing to bet you or she did not read the information...
and were talking about $50...yes, I know, it can seem like a daunting huge sum of money, but come on...I wonder, what if her car broke down and she needed a $50 part...who would be blamed then...
you say the insurance company not paying for this pill is a barrier...I say this persons actions are also a barrier...0 -
inmytree wrote:scb wrote:. And you know what else doesn't allow for any real discussion? People just dismissing the issue as the woman's fault.
are you saying she bears absolutely no responsibility...?
I've said repeatedly that that's not what I'm saying. Are you saying this system is as good as it could/should be?0 -
inmytree wrote:and when you going to understand that people need to be responsible for there actions and choices...?
in point B, you say you want to be consulted...I wonder what sort of world you live in, because no insurance company is going to consult you...didn't you and your co-worker received information about your insurance plan changes...? I'd be willing to bet that you did...I'd also be willing to bet you or she did not read the information...
and were talking about $50...yes, I know, it can seem like a daunting huge sum of money, but come on...I wonder, what if her car broke down and she needed a $50 part...who would be blamed then...
you say the insurance company not paying for this pill is a barrier...I say this persons actions are also a barrier...
I completely understand that people need to be responsible for their actions and choices. What I don't think you understand is that reality happens, or what it means to be responsible in this situation.
I haven't suggested that any insurance company consult me. But the university I work for who made the deal with the insurance company should have consulted me before changing the deal I had signed up for. Yes, we received information; we got a letter after the fact saying our plan had changed and what paperwork to complete to deal with it.
If you think $50 isn't a prohibitive amount of money for many (if not most) women in this country, then you're completely out of touch with reality. If her car broke down, she would take the bus. A more analogous question for this sitation, however, would be What if she was excluded from using all public transportation and had to pay for a driver instead?
Again, it's not about blame. I was just trying to provide an example of how these things play out in reality, even for women who are responsible about sex.0 -
scb wrote:Starfall wrote:I'm surprised nobody's mention a major hurdle for women seeking contraception - in many states pharmacists are allowed to deny sales of contraceptives based on personal religious beliefs.
So heaven help you women if you need a morning after pill and find yourself in the only drugstore within 100 miles, and having to deal with Fundamentalist Pharma.
We've had threads addressing that kind of thing before. But the bottom line is that every single thread around here that addresses reproductive health is turned into a "she's just irresponsible & should've kept her legs closed" thread. Go ahead & try it. Start a thread about abortion or something & see what happens. The most absurd part of this disheartening phenomenon is that usually the people who say women should be more responsible are the same ones who are fine with all the barriers to them being responsible. They have no interest in the reality of reproductive health. And why should they? They're generally men & don't have to take any responsibility for it themselves. So they just sit up on their high horses condemning women who have sex, and yet still expecting women to fuck them when they want it. I have no doubt that if men could get pregnant all contraception would be covered.
"If men got pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament. " - Erica Jong.
I've been around the Net long enough to know that certain subjects bring out the absolute worst in people, and it's abetted by the ability of people to stay anonymous on the Net. Change your subject from "women" to "gays" or "blacks" or "illegal immigrants" and the issue would be exactly the same. We keep hearing these allegations of "personal responsibility" and "family values" but when brought out into the light, they crumble at the touch.
So yeah, been there, seen it."It's not hard to own something. Or everything. You just have to know that it's yours, and then be willing to let it go." - Neil Gaiman, "Stardust"0 -
scb wrote:inmytree wrote:and when you going to understand that people need to be responsible for there actions and choices...?
in point B, you say you want to be consulted...I wonder what sort of world you live in, because no insurance company is going to consult you...didn't you and your co-worker received information about your insurance plan changes...? I'd be willing to bet that you did...I'd also be willing to bet you or she did not read the information...
and were talking about $50...yes, I know, it can seem like a daunting huge sum of money, but come on...I wonder, what if her car broke down and she needed a $50 part...who would be blamed then...
you say the insurance company not paying for this pill is a barrier...I say this persons actions are also a barrier...
I completely understand that people need to be responsible for their actions and choices. What I don't think you understand is that reality happens, or what it means to be responsible in this situation.
I haven't suggested that any insurance company consult me. But the university I work for who made the deal with the insurance company should have consulted me before changing the deal I had signed up for. Yes, we received information; we got a letter after the fact saying our plan had changed and what paperwork to complete to deal with it.
If you think $50 isn't a prohibitive amount of money for many (if not most) women in this country, then you're completely out of touch with reality. If her car broke down, she would take the bus. A more analogous question for this sitation, however, would be What if she was excluded from using all public transportation and had to pay for a driver instead?
Again, it's not about blame. I was just trying to provide an example of how these things play out in reality, even for women who are responsible about sex.
you act as if you have a monopoly in reality...
and my mistake, you feel your employer should have consulted you...my guess is you haven't been in the workforce very long...because reality is your employer tells you...they don't ask you...seriously, do you really think they are going to come in and say "hey, Scb where looking a changing insurance plans, can you look this over and tell us what you think?" "oh really, you don't like this plan, oh my, that's terrible, how can we make it better for you?"....reality, huh...?
reality is the current system sucks...reality is adults should know this and plan accordingly vs. sitting back a blaming the "system"...the "system" is what it is...
as for not having $50 bucks on hand...I'd be willing to bet many who claim they don't have $50 can find that money when they really want to...
as I see it and as I've stated...this young woman and her partner made some poor choices...she assumed she could waltz in to a pharmacy and have the Plan B pill given to her...sadly she learned that she may have to come up with a Plan C...0 -
inmytree wrote:you act as if you have a monopoly in reality...
and my mistake, you feel your employer should have consulted you...my guess is you haven't been in the workforce very long...because reality is your employer tells you...they don't ask you...seriously, do you really think they are going to come in and say "hey, Scb where looking a changing insurance plans, can you look this over and tell us what you think?" "oh really, you don't like this plan, oh my, that's terrible, how can we make it better for you?"....reality, huh...?
reality is the current system sucks...reality is adults should know this and plan accordingly vs. sitting back a blaming the "system"...the "system" is what it is...
as for not having $50 bucks on hand...I'd be willing to bet many who claim they don't have $50 can find that money when they really want to...
as I see it and as I've stated...this young woman and her partner made some poor choices...she assumed she could waltz in to a pharmacy and have the Plan B pill given to her...sadly she learned that she may have to come up with a Plan C...
Well, because I'm a woman and because I run a reproductive health program, I do think I have a better view of the reality of women's reproductive lives than your general, random man. That's why I come on here and try to share that reality with people who might not have as much experience with it as I do. (For the record, I also come on here to learn from others who have a better view of the reality of things with which I have less experience.)
For instance, I frequently see people on this board (usually those who have never had to use birth control or who have been fortunate to have good access to it) going on and on about how easy birth control is to obtain, knowing nothing of the obstacles that women face. Well I spend much of my time helping women navigate those supposedly non-existant obstacles, so when people say they don't exist, I feel the need to vouch that they do. Like men who live in NYC and want to believe that all a woman has to do to get to to a doctor's appointment is jump in her car or on the subway or bus, but have absolutely no knowledge of the transportation issues faces by so many people in the rural areas of my state.
I've been in the workforce for 20 years, by the way. And I don't believe that they necessarily will consult us before changing our insurance plans; I believe that they SHOULD and the fact that they don't is part of our shitty system. And I do expect more of my employer, which tends to be held to a higher standard (which is why we work here to begin with).
Yes, reality is that the current system sucks. That's my point. And I think it's the people who sit around not trying to change it who are the irresponsible ones.
Yes, this woman made an assumption, based on the information she knew, that it would be easier to get Plan B. I don't think it was an unreasonable assumption, and I don't think she made poor choices. (I doubt that you or most anyone else would make better choices.)0 -
scb wrote:inmytree wrote:scb wrote:. And you know what else doesn't allow for any real discussion? People just dismissing the issue as the woman's fault.
are you saying she bears absolutely no responsibility...?
I've said repeatedly that that's not what I'm saying. Are you saying this system is as good as it could/should be?
So did you answer my question?0 -
And another thing:
For all of the guys out there who think you're so much more responsible than the women you condemn: Let me remind you that most of you REALLY don't know
a) What kind of effort has gone in to all your partners' attempts to get birth control, or
b) How many pregnancies you've caused.
There are PLENTY of men out there who have children they don't know about. And many, many women get abortions without ever telling their partners, whether the partners are one-night-stands or husbands. That's not to mention all the miscarriages that the men, and sometimes even the women, don't know about.
Also, women don't share all their trials and tribulations with birth control with every guy they sleep with. Frankly, we know most of you don't care to hear about it.
Maybe if more men concerned themselves more fully with the reproductive process - and this goes way beyond wearing a condom or asking a woman if she's on the pill - then they would have more of a clue and more room to act like they understand the situation.
But how many of you have participated in the acquisition of all kinds of birth control with every woman you've ever slept with? How many have gone to all of their paps, STD tests, ect.? You can't just be willing to buy tampons for the women you love and think that makes you Mr. Understanding. What about all those other women - the ones you didn't love? At least you (hopefully) wore a condom, but did you even use it correctly? Do you REALLY know how to use a condom correctly?
Here's a pop quiz for all the men out there who think they're experts on women's reproductive health:
1. What are all the kinds of contraception and how do they work?
2. What are their risks & benefits?
3. What are their efficacy rates?
4. How much do they cost?
5. What issues do women really face when trying to obtain them?0 -
scb wrote:And another thing:
For all of the guys out there who think you're so much more responsible than the women you condemn
yawn...
talk about a persecution complex.My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln0
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