Ok, I just spun Riot Act, I'm not a hater but...

Veddernarian
Veddernarian Posts: 1,924
edited October 2009 in The Porch
I spun Riot Act for the 1st time in a very long time.

Riot Act really could have benefitted from Brendan O'Brian. I'm really starting to believe that the difference a producer makes versus another on the same band is bigger than I thought. I guess like a team with great players will go so far, but with a great coach, they achieve things none of them thought they could do.

Take Cropduster vs. Force of Nature. Two similar songs. There is a certain absence of something in Cropduster that is hard to describe whereas with Force of Nature, there is sparseness yet punchniness and still a wall of sound. It is amazing what Brendan can do. Listen to the subtlties in Unthought Known. After the Nothing there/Nothing Left part where it builds up again. Imagine a similar treatment to LBC. And in Riot Act, I think Ed is mixed too low and too muddy. If there was ever a "redux" version I'd be clammering for, I think it would be Riot Act. I really like where they were headed. I wish Brendan was in the studio with them. I think it would have been a whole other album with the same songs.
Up here so high I start to shake, Up here so high the sky I scrape, I've no fear but for falling down, So look out below I am falling now, Falling down,...not staying down, Could’ve held me up, rather tear me down, Drown in the river
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  • pdalowsky
    pdalowsky Doncaster,UK Posts: 15,214
    Veddernarian wrote:
    I spun Riot Act for the 1st time in a very long time.

    Riot Act really could have benefitted from Brendan O'Brian. I'm really starting to believe that the difference a producer makes versus another on the same band is bigger than I thought. I guess like a team with great players will go so far, but with a great coach, they achieve things none of them thought they could do.

    Take Cropduster vs. Force of Nature. Two similar songs. There is a certain absence of something in Cropduster that is hard to describe whereas with Force of Nature, there is sparseness yet punchniness and still a wall of sound. It is amazing what Brendan can do. Listen to the subtlties in Unthought Known. After the Nothing there/Nothing Left part where it builds up again. Imagine a similar treatment to LBC. And in Riot Act, I think Ed is mixed too low and too muddy. If there was ever a "redux" version I'd be clammering for, I think it would be Riot Act. I really like where they were headed. I wish Brendan was in the studio with them. I think it would have been a whole other album with the same songs.

    interesting slant on this

    Its definitely my least favourite album and its hard to put a finger on why
  • stranger34
    stranger34 Posts: 235
    I actually believe Riot Act is produced impeccably which is why I am so perplexed as to why Avocado seems shoddy.

    BOB is awesome but he also had a few missteps on BS (Speed of Sound and I think Ed could have been pushed for better vocal takes on some tracks like FoN) I feel like some producers would have binsisted on things like johnny guitar being a b-side and not including both GSMF and Supersonic - but then I think PJ is at a point where they prob just do what they want to do regarding issues like that.
  • U R A Crazy Breed
    U R A Crazy Breed Posts: 8,370
    Riot Act is fucking awesome.....i need not say more.
  • ajgolf23
    ajgolf23 Posts: 55
    Its tough to compare Riot Act vs Backspacer they are two completely different albums.

    I like both of them for what each of them is.
    Drop, drop, dropping it down...oh, so gently...

  • iJam
    iJam Posts: 10
    stranger34 wrote:
    I actually believe Riot Act is produced impeccably which is why I am so perplexed as to why Avocado seems shoddy.

    I agree. I've always felt Riot Act's production was one of its redeeming qualities.

    For me riot act suffers from bad vocal takes, being too long, and even boring in parts.

    Its too bad that when riot act was recorded, they didn't have the attitude they have now of trimming the fat and keeping things short and sweet.
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  • U R A Crazy Breed
    U R A Crazy Breed Posts: 8,370
    i don't get it....Cropduster was the only suck song on the album...the rest of that shit is great!!
  • dimitrispearljam
    dimitrispearljam Posts: 139,725
    U R A Crazy Breed wrote:
    Riot Act is fucking awesome.....i need not say more.
    EXACTLY.. :D
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • EBowie
    EBowie Posts: 533
    iJam wrote:
    stranger34 wrote:
    I actually believe Riot Act is produced impeccably which is why I am so perplexed as to why Avocado seems shoddy.

    I agree. I've always felt Riot Act's production was one of its redeeming qualities.

    For me riot act suffers from bad vocal takes, being too long, and even boring in parts.

    Its too bad that when riot act was recorded, they didn't have the attitude they have now of trimming the fat and keeping things short and sweet.

    I could not agree more---great post!
  • Veddernarian
    Veddernarian Posts: 1,924
    Don't get me wrong. I like the album a lot, like the songs. I like the Backspacer production and believe Riot Act is the best candidate for Redux. Totally agree with the Ed's vocals post. I remember being all excited when I am mine came out and I played it for my wife. Her first comment was about the vocals sounding overly slurred and sounding wrong. And mixed low. That's a really good song, I love it. Would love to hear a redux version of it.
    Up here so high I start to shake, Up here so high the sky I scrape, I've no fear but for falling down, So look out below I am falling now, Falling down,...not staying down, Could’ve held me up, rather tear me down, Drown in the river
  • Brisk.
    Brisk. Posts: 11,578
    U R A Crazy Breed wrote:
    Riot Act is fucking awesome.....i need not say more.

    Yeah it sounds fine :? :? :?
  • Get_Right
    Get_Right Posts: 14,120
    I dont get the hate for cropduster
    its one of my favs on that record
    I love the vocals at the end
    the moon is rolling round.........

    riot act, backspacer, and self-titled are on equal grounds for me
    Each has a bunch of songs I really like as much as any other PJ songs, and a bunch I do not really care for

    And I may be in the minority, but I do not care for the production on backspacer
  • OlDiamondback
    OlDiamondback Posts: 100
    Veddernarian wrote:
    And in Riot Act, I think Ed is mixed too low and too muddy. If there was ever a "redux" version I'd be clammering for, I think it would be Riot Act. I really like where they were headed. I wish Brendan was in the studio with them. I think it would have been a whole other album with the same songs.

    Brendan O'Brien mixed Riot Act.
  • Get_Right
    Get_Right Posts: 14,120
    OlDiamondback wrote:
    Veddernarian wrote:
    And in Riot Act, I think Ed is mixed too low and too muddy. If there was ever a "redux" version I'd be clammering for, I think it would be Riot Act. I really like where they were headed. I wish Brendan was in the studio with them. I think it would have been a whole other album with the same songs.

    Brendan O'Brien mixed Riot Act.
    D'OH
  • Veddernarian
    Veddernarian Posts: 1,924
    I don't hate Cropduster at all. Actually one of my favorites. i think production is like tastes for foods. I hate onions, avocados and tomatos, love cilantro and hot chili peppers. I actually like the smell of skunks, hate Disneyland. Someone is going to come along and vehemently say that their likes are polar opposite of mine. And it's all good. I hate the sound quality of the 2000 boots and love the sound quality of the 2003 boots, someone is going to come along and say I'm nutts. So I'm expressing my feelings on RA based on what I like and dislike. For me, great songs, I wished Brendan could have produced it like Backspacer.
    Up here so high I start to shake, Up here so high the sky I scrape, I've no fear but for falling down, So look out below I am falling now, Falling down,...not staying down, Could’ve held me up, rather tear me down, Drown in the river
  • Veddernarian
    Veddernarian Posts: 1,924
    OlDiamondback wrote:
    Veddernarian wrote:
    And in Riot Act, I think Ed is mixed too low and too muddy. If there was ever a "redux" version I'd be clammering for, I think it would be Riot Act. I really like where they were headed. I wish Brendan was in the studio with them. I think it would have been a whole other album with the same songs.

    Brendan O'Brien mixed Riot Act.

    I'm talking about Brendan O'Brian havine the role Adam Kaspar(sp?) had plus the mixing. I think people know what I was trying to get at.
    Up here so high I start to shake, Up here so high the sky I scrape, I've no fear but for falling down, So look out below I am falling now, Falling down,...not staying down, Could’ve held me up, rather tear me down, Drown in the river
  • OlDiamondback
    OlDiamondback Posts: 100
    Veddernarian wrote:
    OlDiamondback wrote:
    Veddernarian wrote:
    And in Riot Act, I think Ed is mixed too low and too muddy. If there was ever a "redux" version I'd be clammering for, I think it would be Riot Act. I really like where they were headed. I wish Brendan was in the studio with them. I think it would have been a whole other album with the same songs.

    Brendan O'Brien mixed Riot Act.

    I'm talking about Brendan O'Brian havine the role Adam Kaspar(sp?) had plus the mixing. I think people know what I was trying to get at.

    When you complained about Ed being low in the mix, and wishing for a "redux" I thought you didn't know the difference between mixing and producing.
    You realize the only thing they did on the Ten "redux" was remix it?
  • davidtrios
    davidtrios Posts: 9,732
    Riot Act was a huge meh/dissapointed for many Pearl Jam fans. Riot Act (worst album) vs No Code (Greatest Album of all time) were recording wthin 7 years of each other but its baffling to the quality diminished within that time....what was the change? there are theories...but I am glad their last two albums are putting them on the map again.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Veddernarian wrote:
    I spun Riot Act for the 1st time in a very long time.

    Riot Act really could have benefitted from Brendan O'Brian. I'm really starting to believe that the difference a producer makes versus another on the same band is bigger than I thought. I guess like a team with great players will go so far, but with a great coach, they achieve things none of them thought they could do.

    Take Cropduster vs. Force of Nature. Two similar songs. There is a certain absence of something in Cropduster that is hard to describe whereas with Force of Nature, there is sparseness yet punchniness and still a wall of sound. It is amazing what Brendan can do. Listen to the subtlties in Unthought Known. After the Nothing there/Nothing Left part where it builds up again. Imagine a similar treatment to LBC. And in Riot Act, I think Ed is mixed too low and too muddy. If there was ever a "redux" version I'd be clammering for, I think it would be Riot Act. I really like where they were headed. I wish Brendan was in the studio with them. I think it would have been a whole other album with the same songs.

    i'm 95% sure the tracklist would've been very diff if BoB was on board... no way would he have let them shelve down, undone, and other side.

    i've had the same thought about unthought known... it is everything lbc tried and failed to be.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    iJam wrote:
    I agree. I've always felt Riot Act's production was one of its redeeming qualities.

    For me riot act suffers from bad vocal takes, being too long, and even boring in parts.

    Its too bad that when riot act was recorded, they didn't have the attitude they have now of trimming the fat and keeping things short and sweet.

    interesting to read this, given that so many people at first were up in arms about how short BS was. but i completely agree. there is far too much filler on RA.
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,470
    Riot Acts sad/thoughtful/muffled over Avocados bad, out of breath and squeeky singing anyday (also apperent on BS).

    I love Riot Act. It's prety much a perfect album but you have to buy Eddies voice etc. I allways liked the production on it, has a unique sound.

    Backspacer is generic sounding, not in abad way but it doesn't have its own sound. Seems that all BoB's album sounds good and clear but they lack atmosphere.

    Riot Act and Binaural all the way :)
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"

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