Kurt Cobain murder or suicide?

lostdogs89
lostdogs89 Posts: 134
edited October 2009 in A Moving Train
I say its pretty 50/50 but im going with murder and that lots of signs point courtney hired a hit man! Fuck that bitch
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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    edited October 2009
    he shot himself in the fucking head

    i know you peeps dont like courtney but its an insult to kurt(not to mention courtney) to suggest the woman he loved would betray him in such a way. it makes him out to be a fool. and he wasnt.
    Post edited by catefrances on
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  • oona left
    oona left Posts: 1,677
    Read "Love & Death" by Max Wallace and Ian Halperin.

    It is illuminating, to say the least.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    oona left wrote:
    Read "Love & Death" by Max Wallace and Ian Halperin.

    It is illuminating, to say the least.

    and so is philip dick fiction but i dont believe the axis powers won WW2. or even think it was possible.


    what a mindfuck for frances this must all be. strangers saying her mother killed her father. and despite her not believing it... it still hurts to hear it.
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  • oona left
    oona left Posts: 1,677
    catefrances wrote:
    oona left wrote:
    Read "Love & Death" by Max Wallace and Ian Halperin.

    It is illuminating, to say the least.

    and so is philip dick fiction but i dont believe the axis powers won WW2. or even think it was possible.


    what a mindfuck for frances this must all be. strangers saying her mother killed her father. and despite her not believing it... it still hurts to hear it.

    I empathize with Frances. But, speaking of mindfucks, how about being raised by Courtney Love?
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    oona left wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    oona left wrote:
    Read "Love & Death" by Max Wallace and Ian Halperin.

    It is illuminating, to say the least.

    and so is philip dick fiction but i dont believe the axis powers won WW2. or even think it was possible.


    what a mindfuck for frances this must all be. strangers saying her mother killed her father. and despite her not believing it... it still hurts to hear it.

    I empathize with Frances. But, speaking of mindfucks, how about being raised by Courtney Love?

    perhaps frances has more empathy for her mother than we could ever hope to imagine anyone being capable of.

    btw i ordered love and death as well as who killed kurt cobain?
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  • tremors
    tremors Posts: 8,051
    You
    catefrances wrote:

    and so is philip dick fiction but i dont believe the axis powers won WW2. or even think it was possible.


    what a mindfuck for frances this must all be. strangers saying her mother killed her father. and despite her not believing it... it still hurts to hear it.

    perhaps frances has more empathy for her mother than we could ever hope to imagine anyone being capable of.

    btw i ordered love and death as well as who killed kurt cobain?


    You seem to know just what you are talking about - refreshing. Didn't Kurt swear that he didn't have a gun though? I'm out of my depth here, knowing little about Frances, her mother or father. I'll leave that to the Seattleites to figure out.

    edit: btw my mistake; I thought you meant Love and Death by Woody Allen! Genius - I preferred his early funny ones myself tho.
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  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    it was suicide. i dont have to prove it just as a person doesnt have to prove god exists. ergo... i'm correct as its my belief that he committed suicide.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    Alan Cross, a radio host in Canada, did a whole show awhile back about the murder theory. He laid out all the evidence that the people who think it was murder have. Based on what I heard I still think it is suicide for 2 reasons.

    First off pretty much most of the major evidence they have against the suicide is the fact that Cobain wasn't acting rationally. The evidence there is the things like why did he load more than 1 shell in the shot gun and why didn't he just OD to kill himself. Except the guy was a hard core herion addict so it is no surprise to me that he might not be acting as rationally as someone who wasn't on drugs.

    Also the cops in Seattle aren't morons. If someone dies under even slightly suspicous circumstances, they are going to interview everyone who stood to make money off their death, including Courtney. I have seen The People vs Larry Flynt. Courtney Love isn't that great an actress. If she was invloved and the cops asked her about it (which I find it hard to belive they wouldn't) I don't believe she could convince them that she wasn't. Also if she wanted her husband dead, I don't believe she could pull off the sad speech she made at that memorial at Seattle Center.
  • OutOfBreath
    OutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    First off pretty much most of the major evidence they have against the suicide is the fact that Cobain wasn't acting rationally. The evidence there is the things like why did he load more than 1 shell in the shot gun and why didn't he just OD to kill himself. Except the guy was a hard core herion addict so it is no surprise to me that he might not be acting as rationally as someone who wasn't on drugs.

    People who are about to commit suicide can also act pretty weird, or really not weird, but considering what they're gonna do...

    I remember a case in Norway where this girl went missing, and there was a 7-11 cam that was the last anyone had seen of her. She was buying batteries for her mp3-player or something. turns out, she went straight from there, and out into the woods, where she was found. And as usual with suicides, the media shut up pretty fast after that.

    Point is, after they decide to off themselves, they can go on for some time like always and follow their routine. Until they reach the when and where they have decided on. These people aren't really rational, even if they may follow their habits irght until the end.

    Now, add a known problem with drugs into the mix as well, I'm not at all surprised of such small details. He loaded two rounds, he may have just been going on auto while loading it. He was already ODing? Maybe he didnt know that, or he REALLY wanted to make sure he didnt fail.

    I've read about the whole thing, including a great biography by Richard Cross (I think). I dont find it unbelievable at all that he did kill himself.

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  • kenny olav
    kenny olav Posts: 3,319
    I don't find it unbelievable that he shot himself, or that Courtney hired a hit man to do it. It's been years since I saw the Kurt & Courtney documentary... but if I remember right, doesn't Courtney's own father think she killed him? I know that doesn't prove anything, but if her own dad (who doesn't speak with her) would think that, it adds to my suspicions. What an awful person she is. Poor Frances Bean.
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    Alan Cross, a radio host in Canada, did a whole show awhile back about the murder theory. He laid out all the evidence that the people who think it was murder have. Based on what I heard I still think it is suicide for 2 reasons.

    First off pretty much most of the major evidence they have against the suicide is the fact that Cobain wasn't acting rationally. The evidence there is the things like why did he load more than 1 shell in the shot gun and why didn't he just OD to kill himself. Except the guy was a hard core herion addict so it is no surprise to me that he might not be acting as rationally as someone who wasn't on drugs.

    Also the cops in Seattle aren't morons. If someone dies under even slightly suspicous circumstances, they are going to interview everyone who stood to make money off their death, including Courtney. I have seen The People vs Larry Flynt. Courtney Love isn't that great an actress. If she was invloved and the cops asked her about it (which I find it hard to belive they wouldn't) I don't believe she could convince them that she wasn't. Also if she wanted her husband dead, I don't believe she could pull off the sad speech she made at that memorial at Seattle Center.


    i don't know what happened and we will never know....

    but...it wasn't just that more than 1 shell was loaded into the shot gun but how can a person purchase a shot gun, fully load it, stick it in their mouth, pull the trigger and not leave a single finger print anywhere on it??

    Courtney also lied about when she spoke to Kurt, she said she hadn't spoken to him for days or something but her hotel records show she spoke to him for over an hour the day he split from rehab, why lie about that?

    it wouldn't have to be a case that the police were morons but Courtney had been playing up the 'suicidal' aspect....the cops come in and see him shot in the head, gun near by, suicide note (which some experts have said parts were not written by Kurt, but who knows, maybe his penmanship changed when he got more high) it would seem like a logical conclusion he killed himself....

    it also came out later that Kurt had contacted his lawyer about a divorce and there is the fact that they did have a prenuptial agreement
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  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    I heart Scout Niblett wrote:
    it wouldn't have to be a case that the police were morons but Courtney had been playing up the 'suicidal' aspect....the cops come in and see him shot in the head, gun near by, suicide note (which some experts have said parts were not written by Kurt, but who knows, maybe his penmanship changed when he got more high) it would seem like a logical conclusion he killed himself....
    This is the part I find interesting. From what I remember, the only part of the note that actually references suicide, albeit cryptically, was in the different handwriting and ink? wasn't the reference only made via the NY 'burn out/fade away' lyric ?
    Also, I've never done heroin, but I would be surprised if it changed your penmanship....maybe make it messier, but physically change the pen strokes and the way you form letters? Seems unlikely to me....
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

    i don't know what happened and we will never know....

    it wouldn't have to be a case that the police were morons but Courtney had been playing up the 'suicidal' aspect....the cops come in and see him shot in the head, gun near by, suicide note (which some experts have said parts were not written by Kurt, but who knows, maybe his penmanship changed when he got more high) it would seem like a logical conclusion he killed himself....

    it also came out later that Kurt had contacted his lawyer about a divorce and there is the fact that they did have a prenuptial agreement

    Cops aren't just going to look at a scene and go "well that's that then" and then go home. They have to do their due diligence, especially in a case where someone dies violently and someone else stands to inherit their fortune. And like I said if she was involved Courtney Love is not anywhere close to a good enough actress to convince average dectives that she wasn't (not to mention the people at the memorial).
  • oona left
    oona left Posts: 1,677
    Seattle PD, according to protocol, photographed the scene. For 15 years, they have refused to develop the film. Just saying.

    There was very little blood in the room above the greenhouse, where the body was found. When a living person is shot in the head, they tend to lose a lot of blood. This indicates the body was dead prior to the gunshot wound, self-inflicted or not. Just saying.

    And the note was written by two different hands, one left and one right. The first portion, written by a left hand, speaks only of no longer feeling the desire to perform. It is more or less a "resignation" from the band, and from professional music.

    The latter portion, written by a right hand, is where we find the only phrases that would be considered consistent with a "suicide note." Just saying.

    By no means am I trying to convince anyone of anything. But, if a person who hasn't made up their mind wants to find out more (even if what they are searching for cannot be known), I see no point in simply shutting them down.

    I'm just here for the discussion, for I have much to learn.
  • lostdogs89
    lostdogs89 Posts: 134
    oona left wrote:
    Seattle PD, according to protocol, photographed the scene. For 15 years, they have refused to develop the film. Just saying.

    There was very little blood in the room above the greenhouse, where the body was found. When a living person is shot in the head, they tend to lose a lot of blood. This indicates the body was dead prior to the gunshot wound, self-inflicted or not. Just saying.

    And the note was written by two different hands, one left and one right. The first portion, written by a left hand, speaks only of no longer feeling the desire to perform. It is more or less a "resignation" from the band, and from professional music.

    The latter portion, written by a right hand, is where we find the only phrases that would be considered consistent with a "suicide note." Just saying.

    By no means am I trying to convince anyone of anything. But, if a person who hasn't made up their mind wants to find out more (even if what they are searching for cannot be known), I see no point in simply shutting them down.

    I'm just here for the discussion, for I have much to learn.

    Thank You
  • Phool
    Phool Milwaukee, WI Posts: 84
    catefrances wrote:
    he shot himself in the fucking head

    i know you peeps dont like courtney but its an insult to kurt(not to mention courtney) to suggest the woman he loved would betray him in such a way. it makes him out to be a fool. and he wasnt.

    If she didn't kill him she sure wasn't a very loving spouse with helping him get better. This i believe is why most people are against her...I think the question should be asked was Kurt a fool or just not well suported by the person that "loved" him
  • MOKELE MBEMBE
    MOKELE MBEMBE Posts: 53
    lostdogs89 wrote:
    I say its pretty 50/50 but im going with murder and that lots of signs point courtney hired a hit man! Fuck that bitch

    Not cool, man.
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  • Brisk.
    Brisk. Posts: 11,581
    He was driven to suicide by Courtney.
  • lostdogs89
    lostdogs89 Posts: 134
    Brisk. wrote:
    He was driven to suicide by Courtney.
    if it was suicide it was cause that lol
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Phool wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    he shot himself in the fucking head

    i know you peeps dont like courtney but its an insult to kurt(not to mention courtney) to suggest the woman he loved would betray him in such a way. it makes him out to be a fool. and he wasnt.


    If she didn't kill him she sure wasn't a very loving spouse with helping him get better.     This i believe is why most people are against her...I think the question should be asked was Kurt a fool or just not well suported by the person that "loved" him

    and how the fuck would you know that?? you were privy to their marriage were you?? have you ever dealt with a partner who is an addict or depressive or both?? who has to cope with debilitating pain as well??? have you any clue what youre talking about or has your hatred of courtney blinded you to any sense or reason?

    kurt was as much a fool as any of us are.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
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