LISBON TREATY: Round 2

JordyWordy · October 2009

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

I'm ashamed to admit, I'm completely out of the loop on the changes that have been made to the Treaty. I'm actually leaning towards Yes this time, for all the wrong reasons. For one, the No campaign has really pissed me off this time (not that the Yes campaign hasn't, but the No side moreso). And then there's the "us vs. EU" thing - I know it's not right that a No vote would paint us as the assholes of Europe (which we are), but it would.

So, basically, I'm looking for a good reason to vote No. Any reason. Any reason that's better than "Well, we're screwed either way."

I'd been feeling like this until the last day or two. I've come to see it like this though: The more guidance & power the EU has over Ireland, the better. Our politicians have lost most of their credibility altogether, there's not one single party really that can demand a huge majority of public opinion, or of the Dail itself. As bad as Fianna Fail have been in ways they were great in others, but as much as i despise them i still don't see any viable people for government in the opposition parties, (except George Lee).

And i always felt that the "workers rights" issue was a load of horseshit, why focus on rights when there are no jobs! There's 13% unemployment! We need to do whatever keeps creating jobs, and thats Foreign Investment, along with regulating our major industries.

JordyWordy · October 2009

I also notice only Irish people/lives here (honorary Irishman) has posted here.

Anybody have a European, American, Canadian, Asian, African, Kiwi or Australian perspective on this??

Jennytree · October 2009

I still have no way which way I'm going to vote.

I'm appalled by the No campaigners, but I feel like a Yes vote is a vote for the crappy government we have right now.

dimitrispearljam · October 2009

here in Greece the FUCKERS politics just say yes to Europe without ask anyone.the most of the politics party vote yes so the goverment said yes...people ignored..and we bring democracy to the world

dimitrispearljam · October 2009

JordyWordy wrote:

I also notice only Irish people/lives here (honorary Irishman) has posted here.

Anybody have a European, American, Canadian, Asian, African, Kiwi or Australian perspective on this??

yesa couse most of the people countries already vote yes and thje others like mine politics said yes without asking the people..Ireland is the last castle..

MI38162 · October 2009

JordyWordy wrote:

. . . The more guidance & power the EU has over Ireland, the better. Our politicians have lost most of their credibility altogether, there's not one single party really that can demand a huge majority of public opinion, or of the Dail itself. As bad as Fianna Fail have been in ways they were great in others, but as much as i despise them i still don't see any viable people for government in the opposition parties, (except George Lee).

And i always felt that the "workers rights" issue was a load of horseshit, why focus on rights when there are no jobs! There's 13% unemployment! We need to do whatever keeps creating jobs, and thats Foreign Investment, along with regulating our major industries.

um, can you trust the EU which created the way-round "Treaty" to avoid popular vote? well, you can say that's a Very Clever pup pup pup Plan. (shrug)

George Lee?? ho. Gay Mitchell is alright, no? ... Jim Mitchell and Tony Gregory (RIP) ... bit disappointed that i can't really agree with Joe Higgins on some matters, like "workers rights" seem to be pretty okay under the Lisbon Treaty, and he's missing some of my points ... oh wait i never told him ... (:

Foreign investments. they come and go ... better think about something homegrown ... says an honorary irish (cheers Jordy!)

oh hell whichever will be, will be ... all the best!

JordyWordy · October 2009

MI38162 wrote:

um, can you trust the EU which created the way-round "Treaty" to avoid popular vote? well, you can say that's a Very Clever pup pup pup Plan. (shrug)

George Lee?? ho. Gay Mitchell is alright, no? ... Jim Mitchell and Tony Gregory (RIP) ... bit disappointed that i can't really agree with Joe Higgins on some matters, like "workers rights" seem to be pretty okay under the Lisbon Treaty, and he's missing some of my points ... oh wait i never told him ... (:

Thanks

I trust them more than our governmentTwith some things, and less with other things. But the main issues have been sorted, so im happy with that.

Homegrown is crucial too, but a huge proportion of the countries jobs, taxes and investment comes from foreign countries, if we could be excluded from anything by voting No, then . This country was nothing without the EU and the open market. Im young but i remember this place without all the investment, it was nothing as good as nowadays. Not even close.

Im quite surprised by Joe Higgins too, usually he's very straight and focused. He seems to not really know why he doesnt like the Treaty...he's still great though. Yeah, Gay Mictchell is pretty good, he's in my constituency, i shouldnt have forgotten him! And Mary White is a Labour thats great, but not that high up in the party unfortunately.

I'm off to the polls to vote yes!! Enjoy it everyone, be interesting whatever the outcome!

dunkman · October 2009

Jennytree wrote:

I still have no way which way I'm going to vote.

I'm appalled by the No campaigners, but I feel like a Yes vote is a vote for the crappy government we have right now.

considering the grammar of your first sentence that can only be a good thing...

MI38162 · October 2009

JordyWordy wrote:

Homegrown is crucial too, but a huge proportion of the countries jobs, taxes and investment comes from foreign countries, if we could be excluded from anything by voting No, then . This country was nothing without the EU and the open market. Im young but i remember this place without all the investment, it was nothing as good as nowadays. Not even close.

ireland before the celtic tiger ... Plain People of Ireland seemed to be quite happy with whatever they had, adequately-priced modest housing, (lucky i bought one then) ... foreign investors noticed the relative good value of real estates in ireland, ... Plain People of Ireland noticed they can borrow more money than they need, ... money-go-round ... excess ...
i mean, it wasn't too bad really. we were quite happy then ... working at foreign national corporation ...
okay Jordy you win! (:

there's a Mary White in Labour too? (one Green TD for sure) ... i was a bit hesitant to say this, but some Labour TDs are alright too. i think. matter of opinion. one local FF TD is alright here, hoping he goes independent (:
ah, what do i know!!

don't want to see smug faces of Cowen, Lenihan et al (if YES), but even worse is the triumphant SF and Ganley ... no win situation for me ): oh well, soon forget ...

JordyWordy · October 2009

MI38162 wrote:

i mean, it wasn't too bad really. we were quite happy then ... working at foreign national corporation ...
okay Jordy you win! (:

im not trying to win!! just my opinion!

could be a wrong one too, you remember more than i do.

MI38162 wrote:

there's a Mary White in Labour too? (one Green TD for sure) ... i was a bit hesitant to say this, but some Labour TDs are alright too. i think. matter of opinion. one local FF TD is alright here, hoping he goes independent (: ah, what do i know!!

it would be nice to see some more go independent, it worked quite well for the good indeoendents on the last vote.

MI38162 wrote:

don't want to see smug faces of Cowen, Lenihan et al (if YES), but even worse is the triumphant SF and Ganley ... no win situation for me ): oh well, soon forget ...

Yeah, they always look smug dont they! :x Christ, Ganley winning....i could tolerate a "no" vote, i couldnt tolerate Ganley!!

Did you see the Ryanair ads in the paper yesterday? It said something like... "Dont listen to losers: Ganley- LOSER, Higgins-LOSER, SinnFein-LOSERS. Vote Yes to piss off the losers!!" or something, it was very funny!

Jennytree · October 2009

dunkman wrote:

Jennytree wrote:

I still have no way which way I'm going to vote.

I'm appalled by the No campaigners, but I feel like a Yes vote is a vote for the crappy government we have right now.

considering the grammar of your first sentence that can only be a good thing...

Haha, I hate typo's!

I'm heading home now to bogland to cast my vote, I'll think about which way to vote on my way home.

MI38162 · October 2009

JordyWordy wrote:

MI38162 wrote:

i mean, it wasn't too bad really. we were quite happy then ... working at foreign national corporation ...
okay Jordy you win! (:

im not trying to win!! just my opinion! could be a wrong one too, you remember more than i do.

i know we were not competing!

thought it was funny of my trying to making point & realized where i had been working then. that multinational pulled out couple years ago. so ... yes foreign investments are good boost, but better to promote indigenous industries more. up Spice burgers!

on "Back Pages" , financial section of today's IT ...

Falling behind Iceland in fight for recovery, that's not funny

A YEAR ago it was said that the only difference between Ireland and Iceland was one letter and six months. It wasn’t funny even then.
Last week, Deutsche Bank issued a report examining the differences in greater detail. In a nutshell, Deutsche decided that, a year on, Iceland is probably better placed for recovery than Ireland.
“Iceland’s advantages over Ireland and other EMU member states should not be understated,” Deutsche argued. “It has undergone a massive adjustment in competitiveness and a shift in resources from the non-tradeable to tradeable sector. It also enjoys natural resources, which it may opt to invest in to generate economic activity.”
By contrast, Ireland’s growth path is “more uncertain”, the bank adds. “It can no longer compete on manufacturing, restoration of competitiveness via unit labour costs is set to be much more prolonged and the economy appears to lack a ‘niche’ to attract foreign direct investment. At this stage, our best guess is that Iceland supports the current literature on the benefit of devaluation to a recovery in economic output.”
Then again, what does Deutsche know about Iceland and Ireland? Not much judging by the report’s take on our historical ties.
“In the 10th century, Norse chiefs are known to have taken female slaves from Ireland to Iceland, helping to explain the similarities in appearances between Irish and Icelandic populations!”
Now that is funny.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/fin ... 69657.html

opt out from EU and go back to Irish Punt, the currency will fall, good value for foreign currency = investments ahoy! ... down side is, expensive import and overseas holidays; oh then people turn to domestic products/holidays??

JordyWordy wrote:

Did you see the Ryanair ads in the paper yesterday? It said something like... "Dont listen to losers: Ganley- LOSER, Higgins-LOSER, SinnFein-LOSERS. Vote Yes to piss off the losers!!" or something, it was very funny!

yeah. Ganley and MaryLou McD = lost MEP, Higgins lost TD (ignoring his new status of MEP!!), who was the other one?? Patricia McKenna? (who cares ... ??)

MI38162 · October 2009

well, the show's almost over ...
hail to the No voters ... you'll not be forgotten, Joe Higgins MEP will fight for you!

JordyWordy · October 2009

Wow, all Yes results so far except for the 2 Donegal constituencies. I was hoping it would pass, but thats a surprising majority already.

Declan Ganley's response: "We have not succeeded but we did tell the truth and that is something I am proud of,” Mr Ganley said. He said he was “proud of the campaign that we ran”. Mr Ganley said he needed time to reflect on what he would do next.

Anti-Lisbon group Cóir, which also played a prominent role in the No campaign, accepted that the referendum would be approved. The group’s poster campaign attracted a great deal of negative criticism during the campaign – most notably one which suggested the minimum wage could fall to as low as €1.84 an hour. Coir’s spokesman Richard Greene defended the posters and said "people will learn very very soon that what we were saying was the truth”.

Indeed, we will wait and see what happens now....it will be interesting.

Rhinocerous Surprise · October 2009

Well, I voted Yes in the end. I don't know for sure that it was the right vote, but I figured if I voted no, it'd be purely out of spite. And as much as that thought entertained me, it didn't seem very productive.

Brilliantly though, while I was working the polling booth, some old man came up, and didn't even bother going to the booths to cast his vote. He just grabbed the slip from me, scribbled an X in the yes column on my table, then yelled at me about how anyone who "votes for Sinn Féin" was a gigantic idiot. Then he stormed out of the room. It was the most fantastic piece of impassioned voting I've seen in the five or six years I've been doing this work.

JordyWordy · October 2009

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

Well, I voted Yes in the end. I don't know for sure that it was the right vote, but I figured if I voted no, it'd be purely out of spite. And as much as that thought entertained me, it didn't seem very productive.

Brilliantly though, while I was working the polling booth, some old man came up, and didn't even bother going to the booths to cast his vote. He just grabbed the slip from me, scribbled an X in the yes column on my table, then yelled at me about how anyone who "votes for Sinn Féin" was a gigantic idiot. Then he stormed out of the room. It was the most fantastic piece of impassioned voting I've seen in the five or six years I've been doing this work.

Legend!!

That's priceless! Fair play getting the polling work, thats a handy & well-renumerated number 8-)
My polling station had the cast of "Cocoon" working at it. The poor old dear at my table was almost too tired to tear the card off the stub! At least a referendum creates some work eh!

Yeh, i would have been the same, and you're right, the thought of voting no out of spite was SO entertaining....if i could count the number of times i voted for "RON" in college votes....ah, back when it didnt matter.... *sheds single tear of nostalgia*

dimitrispearljam · October 2009

the last castle is down....

Hitch-Hiker · October 2009

Sense prevails! Huge Yes majority

Hopefully now, we'll never have to hear from Libertas or Cóir ever again.

JordyWordy · October 2009

dimitrispearljam wrote:

here in Greece the FUCKERS politics just say yes to Europe without ask anyone.the most of the politics party vote yes so the goverment said yes...people ignored..and we bring democracy to the world

dimitrispearljam wrote:

yesa couse most of the people countries already vote yes and thje others like mine politics said yes without asking the people..Ireland is the last castle..

Well, it's done now!! 2/3 said yes.... stronger decision than expected. We'll see what happens, hopefully democracy will survive for some time!

dimitrispearljam · October 2009

JordyWordy wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

here in Greece the FUCKERS politics just say yes to Europe without ask anyone.the most of the politics party vote yes so the goverment said yes...people ignored..and we bring democracy to the world

dimitrispearljam wrote:

yesa couse most of the people countries already vote yes and thje others like mine politics said yes without asking the people..Ireland is the last castle..

Well, it's done now!! 2/3 said yes.... stronger decision than expected. We'll see what happens, hopefully democracy will survive for some time!

yep..thats true...i hope all will be ok..

LISBON TREATY: Round 2

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