What would have been different if Gore was elected?
Comments
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musicismylife78 wrote:soulsinging wrote:Sure he's different in 2009 than he was in 2000. We all are. So fucking what? The fact that Gore in 2009 is different than Gore in 2000 does NOT mean that Gore in 2000 was exactly the same as Dubya 2000. That's a complete logical fallacy. Not that I should be surprised...
Right we all change based on experiences and events and just plain growing up. Again, I watched the debates in 2000. I saw Gore. He wasnt exciting. He wasnt interesting. he was boring. Straight out. I dont know many people, beyond the poster in this thread who could say he was somehow a dynamic speaker. Suddenly when Bush became president and after the abuses in iraq came to light gore was giving rousing powerful speeches and was a hip guy. What i am suggesting, I know horror of horrors Soulsinging, to actually use some intelligence, i know thats something you arent familiar with, is that Gore, OH MY GAWD! changed, because he went through something, and it changed him. That he wouldnt be the Al Gore of 2009, the hip, smart, cool, and "leader" and "spokesman" of the global warming crisis without having lost to Bush in 2000. I know outrageous to even entertain such ideas. But hey this being a discussion board, I thought, maybe these folks would be interested in discussing rather than bashing my ideas, and acting like I was suggesting Aliens had landed. I guess I shouldnt be surprised...
I tried really hard, but I fail to see the part in here where you prove that Al Gore in 2000 was the same as Dubya and how we would be in exactly the same situation right now if he'd been elected. We'd not have a war in Iraq, period. Maybe we'd be doing other things, but that, by definition, means he is not that same. Yes, he's changed. But not that much.
So because he used to be boring and now he's not, you somehow draw the conclusion that Al Gore would have made the same policy choices as George Bush? How does that compute?0 -
musicismylife78 wrote:Oh shut
Is that supposed to be "Oh shit, I just got owned" or is it more like "Oh shut up, facts are silly things and I don't need to have any sort of grasp on reality, facts, chronology, history, or politics to be completely correct about my sweeping and unfounded generalizations?"musicismylife78 wrote:So Gore didnt think music and objectionable content was bad in 1992? He changed his opinion and said "my wife was wrong back in 1985 and I was wrong in 1985"?
Lets be clear and not forget he was a sitting politician, whether we are talking 85 or 1992. He was in power.
Yeah and when I think of rational and level headed and honest debate, a sharing of ideas, one person saying an idea, and another sharing another, while being respectful, I definitely dont picture you dear friend Soulsinging.
The fact you defend a politician, any politician says alot about you soulsinging. In my code of ethics and moral, politicians are scum and liars. They lie cheat and steal. Not the group of folk I usually cast my lot with. But if you want to spend your days sucking up to these lowlives, go ahead, hope it works out for ya.
Politics is so stupid. PJ can support whoever they want, but look at what Tester has done. The guy is the same garbage as every other politician. He isnt remotely progressive. And is intolerant.
Clearly, you've never had a wife or serious gf. You don't pick fights you don't need to. Odds are Gore didn't give a flying fuck about the PA sticker going on albums. How is it different from movie ratings?
That said, since we're talking about intolerance, it's rather un-progressive of you to act like Tipper should not say anything without Gore's approval. Fact is, Tipper's her own person. She made that her cause and Al said "have fun dear, I'm going to worry about other problems and stay out of this one." It's not worth publicly battling your wife over something that trivial. If you'd ever had a serious relationship, you might understand the desire to avoid the doghouse.0 -
decides2dream wrote:just an FYI - a 'warning label' on a product is NOT censorship. it's a label. BIG difference.
and amazing to think ALL politicans are celarly lying, cheating scum...not a ONE could have even one redeeming quality or desire to do good in the world...only self-proclaimed radicals posting on message boards can. all politicans are not the same, because all people are not the same. talk about painting with a broad brush! of course, we should simply pack it all in and go back to hunting and gathering. have to get off the computer tho. you first.
seriously....gore and bush = NOt the same. and it would be a very different place. still maybe not what you want, or many others, but it most definitely would be different, and more than likely...for the better. however, if one thinks mccain and obama are the same, all are the same...well i guess all you see is 'sameness'.......whereas many of us see differences. again, they may be too sublte for you - that i can appreciate, but differences none the less that some of us happen to deem important.
btw - even if gore disagreed with his wife - and i doubt he did - but evn if he did, why in the hell should he apologize for her?puh-leese. she is her own person and can speak and act for herself, and certainly doesn't need her husband to apologize for her actions, it ain't the 1950s anymore........
I didnt buy many records as a kid, people bought them for me. And I dont come from a major city. But I remember as a teen I became interested in hip hop. I went to the local mall, and went to Sam Goody's. I tried to buy a hip hop record that had the parental advisory sticker on it, and was told I couldnt buy it, as I was underage, and my parents werent with me. It wasnt like I had 2 bucks and couldnt afford it. I had enough money.
Another time in my teens I tried to buy the Mechanical Animals marilyn manson record. I was asked for i.d. to prove I was 18. Again, I had the money. I was 18 this time so I could buy it.
Yes, I could have maybe gone to Target or Best Buy or another cd store to get the cd. I could have gone to another store instead of Sam Goody's and maybe got the warning labeled hip hop cd without trouble.
The fact is, this happened to me. And it proves the point. It is censorship. Its like the Movie rating system. Its a group of 10 people, no one knows who they are (or in the case of the movie rating team we didnt used to know who they were). Who decides whats objectionable cd content?
Why do some albums with profanity get stickered and others not? If you believe like I do, some violence is necessary to explain something. For example in discussing war, Saving Private Ryan would not have worked without the violence. The movie was made to show the brutality and lack of humanity in war, and it did its job. Without the violence and profanity the movie would have been laughable. Or in discussing the conditions in inner city projects, Biggie and Tupac showed or told us in startling and disturbing detail what that life was like. They would not be considered two of the most important hip hop musicians ever, had their music been without that.
Who has the right to tell me what i can and cant listen to and BUY! If I have the money, and you are selling the product, as long as we arent talking cigarettes and alcohol, why should it be of any concern how old I am?
As I said before, some of our favorite records, albums we grew up with are objectionable. I dont know where I would be had I been denied those records.0 -
obamas the proof things are the same. marketed as some kind of new hope and new kind of politician who cares only about helping others and setting to rights whats been damaged.
His record is his first few months speaks for itself.0 -
soulsinging wrote:musicismylife78 wrote:Oh shut
Is that supposed to be "Oh shit, I just got owned" or is it more like "Oh shut up, facts are silly things and I don't need to have any sort of grasp on reality, facts, chronology, history, or politics to be completely correct about my sweeping and unfounded generalizations?"musicismylife78 wrote:So Gore didnt think music and objectionable content was bad in 1992? He changed his opinion and said "my wife was wrong back in 1985 and I was wrong in 1985"?
Lets be clear and not forget he was a sitting politician, whether we are talking 85 or 1992. He was in power.
Yeah and when I think of rational and level headed and honest debate, a sharing of ideas, one person saying an idea, and another sharing another, while being respectful, I definitely dont picture you dear friend Soulsinging.
The fact you defend a politician, any politician says alot about you soulsinging. In my code of ethics and moral, politicians are scum and liars. They lie cheat and steal. Not the group of folk I usually cast my lot with. But if you want to spend your days sucking up to these lowlives, go ahead, hope it works out for ya.
Politics is so stupid. PJ can support whoever they want, but look at what Tester has done. The guy is the same garbage as every other politician. He isnt remotely progressive. And is intolerant.
Clearly, you've never had a wife or serious gf. You don't pick fights you don't need to. Odds are Gore didn't give a flying fuck about the PA sticker going on albums. How is it different from movie ratings?
That said, since we're talking about intolerance, it's rather un-progressive of you to act like Tipper should not say anything without Gore's approval. Fact is, Tipper's her own person. She made that her cause and Al said "have fun dear, I'm going to worry about other problems and stay out of this one." It's not worth publicly battling your wife over something that trivial. If you'd ever had a serious relationship, you might understand the desire to avoid the doghouse.
Yep it was the second one, because when people want honest, informative and truthful ideas they come to you soulsinging. Crickets.... Anyone there?0 -
soulsinging wrote:musicismylife78 wrote:Oh shut
Is that supposed to be "Oh shit, I just got owned" or is it more like "Oh shut up, facts are silly things and I don't need to have any sort of grasp on reality, facts, chronology, history, or politics to be completely correct about my sweeping and unfounded generalizations?"musicismylife78 wrote:So Gore didnt think music and objectionable content was bad in 1992? He changed his opinion and said "my wife was wrong back in 1985 and I was wrong in 1985"?
Lets be clear and not forget he was a sitting politician, whether we are talking 85 or 1992. He was in power.
Yeah and when I think of rational and level headed and honest debate, a sharing of ideas, one person saying an idea, and another sharing another, while being respectful, I definitely dont picture you dear friend Soulsinging.
The fact you defend a politician, any politician says alot about you soulsinging. In my code of ethics and moral, politicians are scum and liars. They lie cheat and steal. Not the group of folk I usually cast my lot with. But if you want to spend your days sucking up to these lowlives, go ahead, hope it works out for ya.
Politics is so stupid. PJ can support whoever they want, but look at what Tester has done. The guy is the same garbage as every other politician. He isnt remotely progressive. And is intolerant.
Clearly, you've never had a wife or serious gf. You don't pick fights you don't need to. Odds are Gore didn't give a flying fuck about the PA sticker going on albums. How is it different from movie ratings?
That said, since we're talking about intolerance, it's rather un-progressive of you to act like Tipper should not say anything without Gore's approval. Fact is, Tipper's her own person. She made that her cause and Al said "have fun dear, I'm going to worry about other problems and stay out of this one." It's not worth publicly battling your wife over something that trivial. If you'd ever had a serious relationship, you might understand the desire to avoid the doghouse.
But I would doubt W and Laura disagree on many issues, and when laura gave speeches I doubt she said anything that wasnt in line with what W believed. I dont think its unprogressive to say that, its the truth. Just imagine, the uproar that would occur if Laura had spoken to a crowd of people and said "all black people are dumb". You dont think people would say "this is proof W is racist" and people would be calling for W and Lauras head/
First wives always have done this. its nothing new for them to parrot the same party line as their husbands. Most likely this is because of politics, but also i would wager, because most people arent gonna marry a communist if they are a republican. You likely live around and with people who look and feel the same way as you. its human nature, or has been for awhile now.0 -
soulsinging wrote:musicismylife78 wrote:Oh shut
Is that supposed to be "Oh shit, I just got owned" or is it more like "Oh shut up, facts are silly things and I don't need to have any sort of grasp on reality, facts, chronology, history, or politics to be completely correct about my sweeping and unfounded generalizations?"musicismylife78 wrote:So Gore didnt think music and objectionable content was bad in 1992? He changed his opinion and said "my wife was wrong back in 1985 and I was wrong in 1985"?
Lets be clear and not forget he was a sitting politician, whether we are talking 85 or 1992. He was in power.
Yeah and when I think of rational and level headed and honest debate, a sharing of ideas, one person saying an idea, and another sharing another, while being respectful, I definitely dont picture you dear friend Soulsinging.
The fact you defend a politician, any politician says alot about you soulsinging. In my code of ethics and moral, politicians are scum and liars. They lie cheat and steal. Not the group of folk I usually cast my lot with. But if you want to spend your days sucking up to these lowlives, go ahead, hope it works out for ya.
Politics is so stupid. PJ can support whoever they want, but look at what Tester has done. The guy is the same garbage as every other politician. He isnt remotely progressive. And is intolerant.
Clearly, you've never had a wife or serious gf. You don't pick fights you don't need to. Odds are Gore didn't give a flying fuck about the PA sticker going on albums. How is it different from movie ratings?
That said, since we're talking about intolerance, it's rather un-progressive of you to act like Tipper should not say anything without Gore's approval. Fact is, Tipper's her own person. She made that her cause and Al said "have fun dear, I'm going to worry about other problems and stay out of this one." It's not worth publicly battling your wife over something that trivial. If you'd ever had a serious relationship, you might understand the desire to avoid the doghouse.
What evidence do you have that Gore didnt support the work his wife was doing on behalf of censorship?
Are you gonna respond to the thing I posted about Mos Def several times, or should I post it a few more times, before you pick it up? Its pretty clear Al Gore, was and most likely still is out of touch. My little caveat there is evidence of that.
And why wouldnt Gore have talked about that? Why didnt he publicly speak out about it? If my wife was going around saying "i hate gay people" I dont think I would say "gee honey, you go do what you believe is right, I will stay out of the way". Of course we cant tell people what to do, but I dont think I would be married to a person what said things like that. I would divorce them immediately.
You make it sound like politicians are going around, selflessly, their only care is the safety and wellbeing of regular average joe's. What world do you inhabit Soulsinging? I dont live in Pollyanna world. Its not like politicians are going around saying "if only we could help end poverty and bring an end to war". No. Hell no! They are getting paid out by corporations, they are acting on behalf of the rich and powerful, and they are making decisions that most likely have no consequence on their lives. How many senators and congressman and congresswomen have sons and daughters that are serving in iraq? A few but not many.
i dont inhabit this fantasy world you seem to live in soulsinging where its rainbows and unicorns. I live in the real world. Try opening up the front door once in awhile soulsinging.0 -
:?:
:roll:
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soulsinging wrote:musicismylife78 wrote:Oh shut
Is that supposed to be "Oh shit, I just got owned" or is it more like "Oh shut up, facts are silly things and I don't need to have any sort of grasp on reality, facts, chronology, history, or politics to be completely correct about my sweeping and unfounded generalizations?"musicismylife78 wrote:So Gore didnt think music and objectionable content was bad in 1992? He changed his opinion and said "my wife was wrong back in 1985 and I was wrong in 1985"?
Lets be clear and not forget he was a sitting politician, whether we are talking 85 or 1992. He was in power.
Yeah and when I think of rational and level headed and honest debate, a sharing of ideas, one person saying an idea, and another sharing another, while being respectful, I definitely dont picture you dear friend Soulsinging.
The fact you defend a politician, any politician says alot about you soulsinging. In my code of ethics and moral, politicians are scum and liars. They lie cheat and steal. Not the group of folk I usually cast my lot with. But if you want to spend your days sucking up to these lowlives, go ahead, hope it works out for ya.
Politics is so stupid. PJ can support whoever they want, but look at what Tester has done. The guy is the same garbage as every other politician. He isnt remotely progressive. And is intolerant.
Clearly, you've never had a wife or serious gf. You don't pick fights you don't need to. Odds are Gore didn't give a flying fuck about the PA sticker going on albums. How is it different from movie ratings?
That said, since we're talking about intolerance, it's rather un-progressive of you to act like Tipper should not say anything without Gore's approval. Fact is, Tipper's her own person. She made that her cause and Al said "have fun dear, I'm going to worry about other problems and stay out of this one." It's not worth publicly battling your wife over something that trivial. If you'd ever had a serious relationship, you might understand the desire to avoid the doghouse.
as an elected official his job and duty is to serve the public. I dont hold my breath for gore or obama or anyone to do that, but as a vice president or senator that was his duty. And I personally think alot of people were and are still pissed about censorship.0 -
soulsinging wrote:musicismylife78 wrote:I did check my facts. And maybe you want to check yours friend. The fact I am openly a radical anarchist commie socialist, and have been for years on this board, makes it highly unlikely I would be parroting a single word from the conservative radio crowd. Dont patronize me unless you can get your facts straight.
That said, you fact checked?musicismylife78 wrote:Who was vouging for Tipper? Who was saying she was correct? If she is the wife of a sitting or was the wife of a sitting vice president and was speaking on policy issues dont you think that what she is doing is being condoned by Al Gore and Bill Clinton? Gore didnt go out and say, "you know, I disagree with my wife's views on music censorship, and believe I have a different way of doing things".
According to transcripts of
" RECORD LABELING
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE,
SCIENCE, AND TRANSPORTATION
UNITED STATES SENATE
NINETY-NINTH CONGRESS"
Is that this congressional hearing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents_Mu ... rce_Center
The one that took place in 1985? Hmmm, last I checked, Clinton/Gore weren't in the White House until 1992/93...
But hey, I didn't exactly fact check that last sentence.
as opposed to your life soulsinging? Last i checked you werent doing a damn thing, since everytime I post, you are there to respond. I guess it takes a lazy and wannabe person, to know a lazy and wannabe person eh?0 -
musicismylife78 wrote:Who has the right to tell me what i can and cant listen to and BUY! If I have the money, and you are selling the product, as long as we arent talking cigarettes and alcohol, why should it be of any concern how old I am?
I make porn for a living. Would you like me to sell my latest movie to your kid?
Hope not. Because I wouldn't.
I find it kinda ironic that me, the porn producer, sees more use in limiting age-appropriate content to adults than you do.0 -
are you really? can you hook me up with a hot (female) porn star?0
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jlew24asu wrote:are you really? can you hook me up with a hot (female) porn star?
Hey, if you're hot I put you in a movie. We're always casting for our straight line.0 -
It's pretty cool, although it's kind of odd to meet people in the street who've seen you from every possible angle.0
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musicismylife78 wrote:soulsinging wrote:musicismylife78 wrote:Oh shut
Is that supposed to be "Oh shit, I just got owned" or is it more like "Oh shut up, facts are silly things and I don't need to have any sort of grasp on reality, facts, chronology, history, or politics to be completely correct about my sweeping and unfounded generalizations?"musicismylife78 wrote:So Gore didnt think music and objectionable content was bad in 1992? He changed his opinion and said "my wife was wrong back in 1985 and I was wrong in 1985"?
Lets be clear and not forget he was a sitting politician, whether we are talking 85 or 1992. He was in power.
Yeah and when I think of rational and level headed and honest debate, a sharing of ideas, one person saying an idea, and another sharing another, while being respectful, I definitely dont picture you dear friend Soulsinging.
The fact you defend a politician, any politician says alot about you soulsinging. In my code of ethics and moral, politicians are scum and liars. They lie cheat and steal. Not the group of folk I usually cast my lot with. But if you want to spend your days sucking up to these lowlives, go ahead, hope it works out for ya.
Politics is so stupid. PJ can support whoever they want, but look at what Tester has done. The guy is the same garbage as every other politician. He isnt remotely progressive. And is intolerant.
Clearly, you've never had a wife or serious gf. You don't pick fights you don't need to. Odds are Gore didn't give a flying fuck about the PA sticker going on albums. How is it different from movie ratings?
That said, since we're talking about intolerance, it's rather un-progressive of you to act like Tipper should not say anything without Gore's approval. Fact is, Tipper's her own person. She made that her cause and Al said "have fun dear, I'm going to worry about other problems and stay out of this one." It's not worth publicly battling your wife over something that trivial. If you'd ever had a serious relationship, you might understand the desire to avoid the doghouse.
What evidence do you have that Gore didnt support the work his wife was doing on behalf of censorship?
About the same evidence you have that he would have adopted the same policies Bush did. Must've hit pretty close to the mark to get you all riled up like this... you only had to quote this 4 times to get your tantrum out of your system? I have no idea what you're talking about with respect to mos def. What I do know is there is nothing remotely similar between a first lady running around making racist remarks, and a senator's wife attempting, as a mother, to monitor what her children read and see and listen to.
So answer me this, since you're so invested in the real world outside your door, do you truly believe Al Gore would have invaded Iraq if he'd been elected president?0 -
musicismylife78 wrote:soulsinging wrote:musicismylife78 wrote:Oh shut
Is that supposed to be "Oh shit, I just got owned" or is it more like "Oh shut up, facts are silly things and I don't need to have any sort of grasp on reality, facts, chronology, history, or politics to be completely correct about my sweeping and unfounded generalizations?"musicismylife78 wrote:So Gore didnt think music and objectionable content was bad in 1992? He changed his opinion and said "my wife was wrong back in 1985 and I was wrong in 1985"?
Lets be clear and not forget he was a sitting politician, whether we are talking 85 or 1992. He was in power.
Yeah and when I think of rational and level headed and honest debate, a sharing of ideas, one person saying an idea, and another sharing another, while being respectful, I definitely dont picture you dear friend Soulsinging.
The fact you defend a politician, any politician says alot about you soulsinging. In my code of ethics and moral, politicians are scum and liars. They lie cheat and steal. Not the group of folk I usually cast my lot with. But if you want to spend your days sucking up to these lowlives, go ahead, hope it works out for ya.
Politics is so stupid. PJ can support whoever they want, but look at what Tester has done. The guy is the same garbage as every other politician. He isnt remotely progressive. And is intolerant.
Clearly, you've never had a wife or serious gf. You don't pick fights you don't need to. Odds are Gore didn't give a flying fuck about the PA sticker going on albums. How is it different from movie ratings?
That said, since we're talking about intolerance, it's rather un-progressive of you to act like Tipper should not say anything without Gore's approval. Fact is, Tipper's her own person. She made that her cause and Al said "have fun dear, I'm going to worry about other problems and stay out of this one." It's not worth publicly battling your wife over something that trivial. If you'd ever had a serious relationship, you might understand the desire to avoid the doghouse.
as an elected official his job and duty is to serve the public. I dont hold my breath for gore or obama or anyone to do that, but as a vice president or senator that was his duty. And I personally think alot of people were and are still pissed about censorship.
Censorship? Last I checked, the lyrics were still the same on all albums I buy... they just have a little sticker in the corner so that I don't unwittingly give my 6-year old niece a NIN album and hear her singing about wanting to "fuck you like an animal."0 -
musicismylife78 wrote:soulsinging wrote:musicismylife78 wrote:I did check my facts. And maybe you want to check yours friend. The fact I am openly a radical anarchist commie socialist, and have been for years on this board, makes it highly unlikely I would be parroting a single word from the conservative radio crowd. Dont patronize me unless you can get your facts straight.
That said, you fact checked?musicismylife78 wrote:Who was vouging for Tipper? Who was saying she was correct? If she is the wife of a sitting or was the wife of a sitting vice president and was speaking on policy issues dont you think that what she is doing is being condoned by Al Gore and Bill Clinton? Gore didnt go out and say, "you know, I disagree with my wife's views on music censorship, and believe I have a different way of doing things".
According to transcripts of
" RECORD LABELING
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE,
SCIENCE, AND TRANSPORTATION
UNITED STATES SENATE
NINETY-NINTH CONGRESS"
Is that this congressional hearing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents_Mu ... rce_Center
The one that took place in 1985? Hmmm, last I checked, Clinton/Gore weren't in the White House until 1992/93...
But hey, I didn't exactly fact check that last sentence.
as opposed to your life soulsinging? Last i checked you werent doing a damn thing, since everytime I post, you are there to respond. I guess it takes a lazy and wannabe person, to know a lazy and wannabe person eh?
I suppose so. I've been doing my damndest to kick back these days. A bit worn out from finishing law school a few weeks ago, resting before I take the bar exam, and enjoying as much downtime as I can get before I start making the big bucks this fall... figure I'm due. How's you job hunt going? Or are you still rationalizing unemployment as some sort of lifestyle choice instead of ineptitude?0 -
Jasunmark wrote:musicismylife78 wrote:Who has the right to tell me what i can and cant listen to and BUY! If I have the money, and you are selling the product, as long as we arent talking cigarettes and alcohol, why should it be of any concern how old I am?
I make porn for a living. Would you like me to sell my latest movie to your kid?
Hope not. Because I wouldn't.
I find it kinda ironic that me, the porn producer, sees more use in limiting age-appropriate content to adults than you do.
I know you're going to think I'm joking, but I may be going into IP law (trademarks and copyrights)... so what would I need to do to make the move to the west coast and get a desk job in the industry? I'd be up for a more active role, but I'm not sure I'm... ah... built for that, hehe.
Though I am madly in love with Keri Sable...0 -
soulsinging wrote:I know you're going to think I'm joking, but I may be going into IP law (trademarks and copyrights)... so what would I need to do to make the move to the west coast and get a desk job in the industry? I'd be up for a more active role, but I'm not sure I'm... ah... built for that, hehe.
Though I am madly in love with Keri Sable...
No idea.
I went to film school and started as a video editor making DVD menus for a solo male site. I now work for a gay hardcore site. Not a lot of desk jobs for copyright lawyers at studios. They generally don't have lawyers on staff unless they're dealing with piracy or legal stuff like contracts and such.
No idea who Keri Sable is. I stay away from the straight porn industry.. those people are freaks.
(Sorry for the thread hijack)0
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