The Panama Deception

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  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Feel free to f**k off at anytime. No one here is asking you to show an interest in this or any other thread. You're a troll. I'm surprised the mods are being so lax lately.

    I agree.

    Good. Off you jog then.

    um ok? not sure what that means. enjoy the ban.

    its also hilarious that you call me a troll. I have participated in countless discussions in almost every thread on this first page, aside from starting my own. hurry back
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Good. Off you jog then.
    jlew24asu wrote:
    um ok? not sure what that means. enjoy the ban.

    What ban?

    Anyone here could be mistaken for thinking that you're out to provoke me into getting banned. Weird.

    jlew24asu wrote:
    its also hilarious that you call me a troll. I have participated in countless discussions in almost every thread on this first page, aside from starting my own. hurry back

    And in practically every thread you post in you insult and provoke people. Maybe this is why you were given a lifetime ban before? Anyway, I'm not going to take your bait. It's perfectly clear what you're up to. I know the mods are watching you. I'll leave it up to you to dig yourself into a familiar hole.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    the relevance of panama and all the other wars is this:

    if 9/11 is considered to be the trigger for the current wars in afghanistan and iraq - what is the trigger for 9/11? for the sake of this discussion: we will assume that the attacks of 9/11 are what we were told - a group of terrorists who managed to break every security defense measure the us armed forces have put in place.

    what would possess people (significant numbers to pull off this attack - especially with funding) to want to fly a plane into the WTC towers that ultimately was more sensationalized than effective? let's be honest here - 3,000 is a paltry number (with all due respect to all lives impacted) for a major terrorist attack - consider a plane into a red sox/yankees game would easily kill 10,000 +

    this is the question americans need to ask themselves - why do terrorists exist to begin with - the relevance in panama is that it is part of the foundation that breeds hatred of america abroad - failure to understand the circumstances is not learning from the past.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:

    And in practically every thread you post in you insult and provoke people. Maybe this is why you were given a lifetime ban before? Anyway, I'm not going to take your bait. It's perfectly clear what you're up to. I know the mods are watching you. I'll leave it up to you to dig yourself into a familiar hole.


    um, you just told me to fuck off. I'm sure the mods will love that.
    Byrnzie wrote:

    Feel free to f**k off at anytime. No one here is asking you to show an interest in this or any other thread. You're a troll. I'm surprised the mods are being so lax lately.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    polaris_x wrote:
    we will assume that the attacks of 9/11 are what we were told - a group of terrorists who managed to break every security defense measure the us armed forces have put in place.

    this isnt an assumption. not to mention false. terrorists didnt break "every security measures the armed forces put in place"

    they broke the barely existent airport security that existed pre 9/11.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    jlew24asu wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    we will assume that the attacks of 9/11 are what we were told - a group of terrorists who managed to break every security defense measure the us armed forces have put in place.

    this isnt an assumption. not to mention false. terrorists didnt break "every security measures the armed forces put in place"

    they broke the barely existent airport security that existed pre 9/11.

    ok - for the sake of this discussion - i say fine. what about the rest of it?
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    jlew24asu wrote:



    and tell me, what other ways should we have "punished" the Taliban and El Queda? o I now, maybe we could have shaken our fist at them reallllly hard and told them not to attack us again. brilliant. I sure would hate to have you on my side in a fight.


    You mean punish the people of Afghanistan. They were the real victims. Taliban is still active.

    The Taliban offered to put Osama Bin Ladin (the guy apparently responsible) on trial, in an international court. The US refused, preferring force to diplomacy. As it did in Iraq. As it did in Panama.

    Notice its always a third world country that can't defend itself, that they pretend is a threat to our national freedom or whatever, and they go in and destroy the country....see Panama,afghanistan,iraq, phillipines, nicaragua...etc....
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Kotov Syndrome wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:



    and tell me, what other ways should we have "punished" the Taliban and El Queda? o I now, maybe we could have shaken our fist at them reallllly hard and told them not to attack us again. brilliant. I sure would hate to have you on my side in a fight.


    You mean punish the people of Afghanistan. They were the real victims. Taliban is still active.

    The Taliban offered to put Osama Bin Ladin (the guy apparently responsible) on trial, in an international court. The US refused, preferring force to diplomacy. As it did in Iraq. As it did in Panama.

    Notice its always a third world country that can't defend itself, that they pretend is a threat to our national freedom or whatever, and they go in and destroy the country....see Panama,afghanistan,iraq, phillipines, nicaragua...etc....

    You're not allowed to mention Nicaragua. It falls outside of the 10 year shelf life of acceptable topics of discussion. :lol:
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Kotov Syndrome wrote:

    You mean punish the people of Afghanistan.

    the Taliban are the ones you have punished the people of Afghanistan.
    Kotov Syndrome wrote:
    They were the real victims.

    I agree
    Kotov Syndrome wrote:
    Taliban is still active.
    yes they are and we are still at war with them. as is Pakistan. whats your point?
    Kotov Syndrome wrote:
    The Taliban offered to put Osama Bin Ladin (the guy apparently responsible) on trial, in an international court.

    LOL yea great idea. let the Taliban put him on trail. genius.
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Kotov Syndrome wrote:

    You mean punish the people of Afghanistan.

    the Taliban are the ones you have punished the people of Afghanistan.

    no. the taliban was a religious fundamental theocratic rule that was very harsh and repressive for the people of afghansitan, but i'm talking about actually dropping 2 ton bombs on villages and actually killing thousands of innocent civilians to get to the few individuals responsible for committing a crime.


    its like if a guy robbed a bank in new jersey. the cops don't go into his neighborhood and flatten his apartment building, they only go after the guy responsible. but that's what international justice is all about apparently. if someone in your country commits a crime apparently the US has the right to destroy the entire country.



    jlew wrote:
    yes they are and we are still at war with them. as is Pakistan. whats your point?
    some punishment it was.
    Kotov Syndrome wrote:
    The Taliban offered to put Osama Bin Ladin (the guy apparently responsible) on trial, in an international court.
    LOL yea great idea. let the Taliban put him on trail. genius.


    right. those crazy taliban, trying to use international law to bring a fugitive to justice.

    you're right. destroying the country, installing warlords,and bringing back the heroin production was a much more reasonable approach in bringing 1 man to justice.
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    jlew24asu wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    we will assume that the attacks of 9/11 are what we were told - a group of terrorists who managed to break every security defense measure the us armed forces have put in place.

    this isnt an assumption. not to mention false. terrorists didnt break "every security measures the armed forces put in place"

    they broke the barely existent airport security that existed pre 9/11.


    the plane that hit the pentagon was known to be hijacked well before it reached DC airspace and almost an hour after the first plane hit the wtc. so, i'd say a known hijacked plane entering DC's no fly zone, turning around and entering the no fly zone once again before any reaction is breaking more than airport security....

    also, the taliban offered to hand bin laden over if we gave them proof of his guilt, we choose to bomb the shit out of them and poison them with DU rounds, instead
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Kotov Syndrome wrote:

    You mean punish the people of Afghanistan.

    the Taliban are the ones you have punished the people of Afghanistan.
    Kotov Syndrome wrote:
    They were the real victims.

    I agree
    Kotov Syndrome wrote:
    Taliban is still active.
    yes they are and we are still at war with them. as is Pakistan. whats your point?
    Kotov Syndrome wrote:
    The Taliban offered to put Osama Bin Ladin (the guy apparently responsible) on trial, in an international court.

    LOL yea great idea. let the Taliban put him on trail. genius.


    the taliban offered to turn bin laden over to the US
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Black Hole Symphony wrote:
    the taliban offered to turn bin laden over to the US

    True. And even this much was reported at the time in the mainstream media. But Bush refused, saying that he should be handed over unconditionally. The only conditions that the Taliban leaders put forward were that the U.S authorities provide some evidence of Obama's guilt. This they refused - or were unable - to do.

    Same old story. They wanted a pretext for invading Afghanistan - as shown in the article I posted above - http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/nov20 ... -n20.shtml - just as they wanted a pretext for invading Panama. Bin Laden was that pretext, but the truth of the matter is he was pretty irrelevant. They knew full well that Al Queda would continue to operate whether he was dead or alive.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Black Hole Symphony wrote:

    the taliban offered to turn bin laden over to the US
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Black Hole Symphony wrote:
    the taliban offered to turn bin laden over to the US

    True. And even this much was reported at the time in the mainstream media. But Bush refused, saying that he should be handed over unconditionally. The only conditions that the Taliban leaders put forward were that the U.S authorities provide some evidence of Obama's guilt. This they refused - or were unable - to do.

    Same old story. They wanted a pretext for invading Afghanistan - as shown in the article I posted above - http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/nov20 ... -n20.shtml - just as they wanted a pretext for invading Panama. Bin Laden was that pretext, but the truth of the matter is he was pretty irrelevant. They knew full well that Al Queda would continue to operate whether he was dead or alive.

    I know you people dont care or seem to understand that WAR was already started and brought to our shores. and you expected us to sit down and negotiate with the very people that allowed Bin Laden safe haven? no. I'm very proud and pleased that Bush told them to fuck off.

    there was no pretext to war as you so seem to think. the war had already begun. time for games with the Taliban was long over
  • VINNY GOOMBA
    VINNY GOOMBA Posts: 1,825
    Byrnzie wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    because the average age of most on this board was probably 5. so you tell me, how and why is this thread relevant? in case you forgot..

    A Moving Train
    Politics, current events - reasoned debate and discussion - we can all learn something new.

    O.k, when you stop bringing up 9/11 I'll stop bringing up America's past crimes, deal?

    jlew24asu wrote:
    it was one of the best ownings this board has ever seen.

    Only in your juvenile little mind.

    Edit: Let's face it Jlew, I've been 'owning' you on this board without fail for the past 3 years. I suggest you admit defeat and move on.

    "Owning" someone is pretty badass, but nobody truly wins until someone gets "pwn3d!!!"
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    there was no pretext to war as you so seem to think. the war had already begun. time for games with the Taliban was long over

    9/11 had nothing to do with the Taliban, but you seem to feel that the people of Afghanistan deserved to be carpet bombed and occupied?
    In that case can you tell us how you feel about Luis Posada Carriles who has been residing in the U.S and who was a former C.I.A operative, guilty of an airplane bombing which killed 73 people and who has also been linked to a series of 1997 bombings of hotels, restaurants, and discotheques in Havana?

    Do you think that America therefore deserves the same kind of punishment as that inflicted on Afghanistan?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    there was no pretext to war as you so seem to think. the war had already begun. time for games with the Taliban was long over

    9/11 had nothing to do with the Taliban, but you seem to feel that the people of Afghanistan deserved to be carpet bombed and occupied?

    the Taliban had everything to do with 9/11. they harbored the very people who planned and executed the attacks on America.
    Byrnzie wrote:
    In that case can you tell us how you feel about Luis Posada Carriles who has been residing in the U.S and who was a former C.I.A operative, guilty of an airplane bombing which killed 73 people and who has also been linked to a series of 1997 bombings of hotels, restaurants, and discotheques in Havana?

    how do I feel about it? I'm crushed. I lose sleep all the time. its horrible. I find myself walking around chanting Death To America!!! Death To America!!
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Do you think that America therefore deserves the same kind of punishment as that inflicted on Afghanistan?

    yes. I wish we would bomb and occupy ourselves. better yet, I wish Russia would drop its entire nuclear arsenal on every major American city. as well as few small towns in the heartland to really hit us where it hurts.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited June 2009
    jlew24asu wrote:
    the Taliban had everything to do with 9/11. they harbored the very people who planned and executed the attacks on America.

    ....
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:

    Nice way of evading my question.

    I answered your questions
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I answered your questions

    Let's see if you can stretch your imagination far enough to consider this concept: You say that the Taliban had everything to do with 9/11 because they harbored the very people who planned and executed the attacks on America?
    Therefore is it fair to say that the U.S government had everything to do with the bombing of the Cuban airliner and the bombings in Havana because they harbored and continue to harbour the very people who planned and executed these attacks?

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