The Panama Deception

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  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    jlew24asu wrote:
    where is the confusion? I'll be happy to clear it up for you

    no need - i'm good
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    polaris_x wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    where is the confusion? I'll be happy to clear it up for you

    no need - i'm good

    doesnt appear that way but whatever. you can't dispute anything I said. which I guess does actually mean you're good. glad you learned something
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    America does not harbor terrorists

    So Luis Posada Carriles isn't a terrorist then? Blowing up an airliner and killing 73 people doesn't make him a terrorist? Or is just that he once worked for the CIA so therefore he's one of the good guys?

    we already went over this. Venezuela has a reason to consider America a target. besides the fact that their president is a fucking wackjob, they aren't that stupid to fight a war over this guy.

    Do you also think that most Arabs around the world have a reason to consider America a target due to it's full and unconditional support of Israeli terrorism for the past 40 years?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:

    Do you also think that most Arabs around the world have a reason to consider America a target due to it's full and unconditional support of Israeli terrorism for the past 40 years?

    no. since you feel you are the only one who can ask questions around here...do you feel the Americans going to work on 9/11 were legitimate targets?
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    jlew24asu wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    where is the confusion? I'll be happy to clear it up for you

    no need - i'm good

    doesnt appear that way but whatever. you can't dispute anything I said. which I guess does actually mean you're good. glad you learned something

    i disagree with everything that you said - unfortunately, it is my opinion that someone of your belief system is not capable of understanding concepts beyond your scope ... instead of calling you pointless names - i simply chose to spend time discussing other topics ...

    it is sad that you actually think that you taught me something tho based on your comments but then again not surprising
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    polaris_x wrote:

    i disagree with everything that you said - unfortunately, it is my opinion that someone of your belief system is not capable of understanding concepts beyond your scope ... instead of calling you pointless names - i simply chose to spend time discussing other topics ...

    it is sad that you actually think that you taught me something tho based on your comments but then again not surprising

    well you've done nothing to add to the discussion expect ask pointless questions which I fully answered. but I can assume you somehow feel the Taliban had nothing to do with 9/11. which I'm proven false for you. so I'm glad you learned that today
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    jlew24asu wrote:
    well you've done nothing to add to the discussion expect ask pointless questions which I fully answered. but I can assume you somehow feel the Taliban had nothing to do with 9/11. which I'm proven false for you. so I'm glad you learned that today

    if you think so

    you can continue to bait but i'm not biting
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    polaris_x wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    well you've done nothing to add to the discussion expect ask pointless questions which I fully answered. but I can assume you somehow feel the Taliban had nothing to do with 9/11. which I'm proven false for you. so I'm glad you learned that today

    if you think so

    you can continue to bait but i'm not biting


    whenever you'd like to add to a discussion, I'm here. so far, you've offered nothing. good job
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited June 2009
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:

    Do you also think that most Arabs around the world have a reason to consider America a target due to it's full and unconditional support of Israeli terrorism for the past 40 years?

    no. since you feel you are the only one who can ask questions around here...do you feel the Americans going to work on 9/11 were legitimate targets?

    When did I say that I felt I was the only one who can ask questions?

    Anyway, were the Americans going to work on 9/11 legitimate targets? Clearly tor some people they were legitimate targets. Just as many Americans felt that the people of Afghanistan and Iraq should have been wiped out.
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    whenever you'd like to add to a discussion, I'm here. so far, you've offered nothing. good job

    Very nice.
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    jlew24asu wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:

    well clearly the taliban are the stupidest people in the world as they gained absolutely nothing from the entire fiasco ... :roll:

    true, they aren't very bright for taking us on. but are you surprised by their arrogance? they honestly thought they could defeat us. while they do live on in remote regions, they could have easily avoided the US invading their country had barred OSL and el queda from their country to begin with.



    So, out of the blue, after we spent billions of dollars using their country as a battlefield, importing radical fighters from all over Islam, setting up resistance networks all across their country, teaching them the more militant side of Islam, a few bad apples from a whole bunch of bad apples decide to attack us on 9/11? what a shock.

    that's traditional history, never mind the 0 pieces of evidence tying OBL to the crime, never mind that very obvious and huge major detail.

    lets just say we used afghanistan in the past, for the past 30 years or so, for our own ends, and a few bit us back. still, that's no green light for us to invade. since when do the people of Afghanistan have to suffer for their very radical leader's mistakes? the logic is very fucked up.

    scenarios where US troop have just invaded a third world country (plenty of examples) like with afghanistan, have a few things in common. They make little sense given conventional ideology. Official pretexts vs reality. and that is always the case. Their take on reality is usually so far removed from reality its any wonder we're still around talking about any of this.

    and there are a plenty of examples of how official rhetoric and pretexts have nothing at all to do with reality, and in fact that is usually the case.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    edited June 2009
    jlew24asu wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:

    well clearly the taliban are the stupidest people in the world as they gained absolutely nothing from the entire fiasco ... :roll:

    true, they aren't very bright for taking us on. but are you surprised by their arrogance? they honestly thought they could defeat us. while they do live on in remote regions, they could have easily avoided the US invading their country had barred OSL and el queda from their country to begin with.

    you think the taliban were arrogant to think they could defeat the US, despite the fact that it wasnt them who orchestrated 9/11??

    seriously if you believe that, and i know that you do, then you have no clue what the purpose of terrorism is and therefore they have defeated you.
    Post edited by catefrances on
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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    America does not harbor terrorists

    So Luis Posada Carriles isn't a terrorist then? Blowing up an airliner and killing 73 people doesn't make him a terrorist? Or is just that he once worked for the CIA so therefore he's one of the good guys?

    we already went over this. Venezuela has a reason to consider America a target. besides the fact that their president is a fucking wackjob, they aren't that stupid to fight a war over this guy.

    please explain to me how chavez is a wackjob???

    and of course the US wont go to war with venezuela even your government is well aware what a foolhardy adventure that would be.
    hear my name
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  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:

    Do you also think that most Arabs around the world have a reason to consider America a target due to it's full and unconditional support of Israeli terrorism for the past 40 years?

    no. since you feel you are the only one who can ask questions around here...do you feel the Americans going to work on 9/11 were legitimate targets?

    When did I say that I felt I was the only one who can ask questions?

    Anyway, were the Americans going to work on 9/11 legitimate targets? Clearly tor some people they were legitimate targets. Just as many Americans felt that the people of Afghanistan and Iraq should have been wiped out.

    I asked if you felt they were legitimate targets
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    edited June 2009
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    no. since you feel you are the only one who can ask questions around here...do you feel the Americans going to work on 9/11 were legitimate targets?

    When did I say that I felt I was the only one who can ask questions?

    Anyway, were the Americans going to work on 9/11 legitimate targets? Clearly tor some people they were legitimate targets. Just as many Americans felt that the people of Afghanistan and Iraq should have been wiped out.

    I asked if you felt they were legitimate targets

    i know you werent asking me but i have to say that innocent civilians are never legitimate targets from our point of view. however when it comes to terrorism they are the target, otherwise terror really hasnt been instilled in the populace. if you think you are capable of being the target then terrorism has worked and is its ultimate goal. so i guess from a terrorist pov that makes them a legitimate target.
    Post edited by catefrances on
    hear my name
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  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    catefrances wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:

    well clearly the taliban are the stupidest people in the world as they gained absolutely nothing from the entire fiasco ... :roll:

    true, they aren't very bright for taking us on. but are you surprised by their arrogance? they honestly thought they could defeat us. while they do live on in remote regions, they could have easily avoided the US invading their country had barred OSL and el queda from their country to begin with.

    you think the taliban were arrogant to think they could defeat the US, despite the fact that it wasnt them who orchestrated 9/11??

    seriously if you believe that, and i know that you do, then you have no clue what the purpose of terrorism is and therefore they have defeated you.

    wow yet another one lacking comprehension skills. it makes no difference that they didnt orchestrate the attacks. they allow the group who did safe haven to operate and do all the orchestrating they pleased. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

    and secondly, yes. The Taliban thought they could take on the US. they had no fear of us.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/se ... eptember11

    Defiant Taliban ready for war

    The Taliban's most senior body of clerics is poised to declare a holy war against the US if a last-minute plea from Pakistan today fails to persuade them to hand over the wanted Saudi-born dissident, Osama bin Laden.

    With fear growing throughout the region that the US assault is imminent, Afghan forces were massing at the Pakistan border near the Khyber Pass, ready to repel US ground forces and to retaliate against Pakistan should it help the US.

    http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asia ... an.denial/

    KABUL, Afghanistan (CNN) -- The leader of Afghanistan's ruling Taliban told his nation Friday to prepare for holy war amid concerns that the United States would target it for harboring Osama bin Laden.

    In a 17-minute radio address, Supreme Leader Mullah Mohammed Omar said the Afghan people should not be afraid and that he was not afraid of dying.

    Afghanistan had been invaded by great powers before, including Britain and Russia, and had withstood the assault, he said.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    jlew24asu wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    true, they aren't very bright for taking us on. but are you surprised by their arrogance? they honestly thought they could defeat us. while they do live on in remote regions, they could have easily avoided the US invading their country had barred OSL and el queda from their country to begin with.

    you think the taliban were arrogant to think they could defeat the US, despite the fact that it wasnt them who orchestrated 9/11??

    seriously if you believe that, and i know that you do, then you have no clue what the purpose of terrorism is and therefore they have defeated you.

    wow yet another one lacking comprehension skills. it makes no difference that they didnt orchestrate the attacks. they allow the group who did safe haven to operate and do all the orchestrating they pleased. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

    and secondly, yes. The Taliban thought they could take on the US. they had no fear of us.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/se ... eptember11

    Defiant Taliban ready for war

    The Taliban's most senior body of clerics is poised to declare a holy war against the US if a last-minute plea from Pakistan today fails to persuade them to hand over the wanted Saudi-born dissident, Osama bin Laden.

    With fear growing throughout the region that the US assault is imminent, Afghan forces were massing at the Pakistan border near the Khyber Pass, ready to repel US ground forces and to retaliate against Pakistan should it help the US.

    http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asia ... an.denial/

    KABUL, Afghanistan (CNN) -- The leader of Afghanistan's ruling Taliban told his nation Friday to prepare for holy war amid concerns that the United States would target it for harboring Osama bin Laden.

    In a 17-minute radio address, Supreme Leader Mullah Mohammed Omar said the Afghan people should not be afraid and that he was not afraid of dying.

    Afghanistan had been invaded by great powers before, including Britain and Russia, and had withstood the assault, he said.
    yes i do understand that. i also understand that when it coems to terrorism the united states has a convenient loss of memory, because they have themselves been involved in such acts. it doesnt mean if i think they deserved what they got on 9/11(which i dont) but it gives me reference. it doesnt make me arc up and start waving the flag and denounce without regard anyone in central asia, who i point out were at one stage, when it was convenient for the US, armed by them in order to serve the greater good (whatever the fuck that was)
    i have watched the united states of america for a long long time, and there was a time when i was on board with their foreign policy so much that i would have happily had the bald eagle tattooed to my arse. but i was young and naive and easily led back then and i thought the sun shone out of washingtons arse. i thought they could do no wrong... clearly i am no longer of that opinion. i have come to my own conclusions from reading and forming logical connections. nothing happens in a void and when 9/11 happened i literally held my breath to see what would happen. i hoped that washington would take this opportnity to do some self evaluation but i was proved wrong by the bush adinistration nd their gung ho attitude towards retribution. they played right into the terrorists hands and now today we all have to deal with the bullshit. most of all the soldiers and their families.
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  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    catefrances wrote:
    yes i do understand that. i also understand that when it coems to terrorism the united states has a convenient loss of memory, because they have themselves been involved in such acts. it doesnt mean if i think they deserved what they got on 9/11(which i dont) but it gives me reference. it doesnt make me arc up and start waving the flag and denounce without regard anyone in central asia, who i point out were at one stage, when it was convenient for the US, armed by them in order to serve the greater good (whatever the fuck that was)
    i have watched the united states of america for a long long time, and there was a time when i was on board with their foreign policy so much that i would have happily had the bald eagle tattooed to my arse. but i was young and naive and easily led back then and i thought the sun shone out of washingtons arse. i thought they could do no wrong... clearly i am no longer of that opinion. i have come to my own conclusions from reading and forming logical connections. nothing happens in a void and when 9/11 happened i literally held my breath to see what would happen. i hoped that washington would take this opportnity to do some self evaluation but i was proved wrong by the bush adinistration nd their gung ho attitude towards retribution. they played right into the terrorists hands and now today we all have to deal with the bullshit. most of all the soldiers and their families.

    ok so now the truth comes out. dont reference the fact that I proved to you that the Taliban were in fact defiant and thought they could take on the US. the US was ATTACKED on 9/11. going into Afghanistan and defeat those who attacked us was the only option.

    but yet chose to go on about some rant about how you really dislike the US and how naive you were to ever respect us. Who gives a fuck?

    although I will say war in Iraq was a mistake and wrong. the US is now paying a price for that mistake but hopefully on the right path to fix it
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    jlew24asu wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    yes i do understand that. i also understand that when it coems to terrorism the united states has a convenient loss of memory, because they have themselves been involved in such acts. it doesnt mean if i think they deserved what they got on 9/11(which i dont) but it gives me reference. it doesnt make me arc up and start waving the flag and denounce without regard anyone in central asia, who i point out were at one stage, when it was convenient for the US, armed by them in order to serve the greater good (whatever the fuck that was)
    i have watched the united states of america for a long long time, and there was a time when i was on board with their foreign policy so much that i would have happily had the bald eagle tattooed to my arse. but i was young and naive and easily led back then and i thought the sun shone out of washingtons arse. i thought they could do no wrong... clearly i am no longer of that opinion. i have come to my own conclusions from reading and forming logical connections. nothing happens in a void and when 9/11 happened i literally held my breath to see what would happen. i hoped that washington would take this opportnity to do some self evaluation but i was proved wrong by the bush adinistration nd their gung ho attitude towards retribution. they played right into the terrorists hands and now today we all have to deal with the bullshit. most of all the soldiers and their families.

    ok so now the truth comes out. dont reference the fact that I proved to you that the Taliban were in fact defiant and thought they could take on the US. the US was ATTACKED on 9/11. going into Afghanistan and defeat those who attacked us was the only option.

    but yet chose to go on about some rant about how you really dislike the US and how naive you were to ever respect us. Who gives a fuck?

    although I will say war in Iraq was a mistake and wrong. the US is now paying a price for that mistake but hopefully on the right path to fix it

    of course the taliban were defiant. if you came to my door without evidence and said hand over your son, i would tell you to go fuck yourself. that is exactly what afghanistan did. so what do the US do??... the only thing the know how to do, they hit afghanistan with superior weaponry. those who were responsilbe for the vile acts of 9/11 were predominantly saudis.

    you know jlew. it tires me to have to explain to you(generally) how i personally do not hate the US but that i do detest the foreign policy of your government. youve totally dismissed anything ive ever said previously cause it doesnt fit your agenda. i never said i was naive to respect 'you', but i was naive to believe everything i was being fed by pro US government interests. but you know what.. i was a kid back then. i actually believed what my government and that of 'the greatest democracy on earth' told me. they wouldnt lie to me, surely. what purpose would that serve, my underdeveloped mind asked. i could so easily have come down on the side of your goverment but i didnt. and why is that? is it cause im a fool who knows no better and just hates the US for no reason??? hardly. my reasons are legitimate just like you think you think yours are. i shudder to think that young men and women are sent to sacrifice their lives for no reason other than the continuation of the capitalist/imperialist bullshit that we all have to stomach..
    hear my name
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  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    catefrances wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    yes i do understand that. i also understand that when it coems to terrorism the united states has a convenient loss of memory, because they have themselves been involved in such acts. it doesnt mean if i think they deserved what they got on 9/11(which i dont) but it gives me reference. it doesnt make me arc up and start waving the flag and denounce without regard anyone in central asia, who i point out were at one stage, when it was convenient for the US, armed by them in order to serve the greater good (whatever the fuck that was)
    i have watched the united states of america for a long long time, and there was a time when i was on board with their foreign policy so much that i would have happily had the bald eagle tattooed to my arse. but i was young and naive and easily led back then and i thought the sun shone out of washingtons arse. i thought they could do no wrong... clearly i am no longer of that opinion. i have come to my own conclusions from reading and forming logical connections. nothing happens in a void and when 9/11 happened i literally held my breath to see what would happen. i hoped that washington would take this opportnity to do some self evaluation but i was proved wrong by the bush adinistration nd their gung ho attitude towards retribution. they played right into the terrorists hands and now today we all have to deal with the bullshit. most of all the soldiers and their families.

    ok so now the truth comes out. dont reference the fact that I proved to you that the Taliban were in fact defiant and thought they could take on the US. the US was ATTACKED on 9/11. going into Afghanistan and defeat those who attacked us was the only option.

    but yet chose to go on about some rant about how you really dislike the US and how naive you were to ever respect us. Who gives a fuck?

    although I will say war in Iraq was a mistake and wrong. the US is now paying a price for that mistake but hopefully on the right path to fix it

    of course the taliban were defiant. if you came to my door without evidence and said hand over your son, i would tell you to go fuck yourself. that is exactly what afghanistan did. so what do the US do??... the only thing the know how to do, they hit afghanistan with superior weaponry. those who were responsilbe for the vile acts of 9/11 were predominantly saudis.

    unreal. another person who thinks the US should have sat down and let the Taliban take its time and review our "evidence" that OSL was responsible. meanwhile, our cities burn with black smoke and empty shoes are found in the streets.

    but no no....we should give in to the Taliban's demands and let them take their sweet old time going over evidence. un fucking real.

    and again with the Saudi reference, I love it. so we should have attacked Saudi then? no? then why bring it up? you seem to be implying it was actually Saudi Arabia who is responsible, not the Taliban or el queda. the hijckers nationality is so fucking irreverent but it continues to be brought up. mind boggling. My guess is OSL picked these men and their ethnicity on purpose. simply so you can eat up. worked like a charm

    and I'm not talking about being defiant in the way you are. I'm talking about defiance in terms that they were ready to fight America head to head.

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