Anarchy
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LikeAnOcean wrote:musicismylife78 wrote:Capitalism doesnt work. Flat out. Any attempts to reform it will fail miserably. It cant be reformed. It needs to be destroyed as does civilization. Green Anarchy or Anarcho-primitivism is what I closely adhere to or believe, in that it suggests return to the hunting and gathering days, and getting rid of civlization and technology.
Getting rid of civilization and technology means getting rid of art, creativity, ways to express ourselves, challenge our minds.. you don't have time for that shit when you are hunting an gathering. You work to stay alive 24/7, make as many babies as you can and die a young age.
No thank you. I will fight to the death to keep civilization alive! No way I'm living in a hunting and gathering world.
Huh? Getting rid of technology stifles creativity? Thats a lie. Technology is useful. Even the staunchly anti technology Radiohead uses it. But I dont see how the proliferation of computers and cell phones and all that is a good thing.
I will be fighting with you, but to bring about the death of civilization. I mean the whole term is a joke. Do we really think of ourselves as civilized? The same culture that slaughted Native Americans, that lynched blacks, that used the Atomic Bomb, that gave black men syphillis, that perpetuates a racist justice system that throws over 1 million black men in jail, most for nonviolent drug offenses? Are we really going down that road and saying we are civilized.0 -
so we would be civilized if we didnt arrest and prosicute those who broke laws. :? So I guess we should just let people do whatever it is they feel like doing such as looting raping women, killing someone just for the hell of it. :? :roll:0
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JB811 wrote:Commy wrote:power corrupts. I don't think many people would disagree with that.
one way to avoid that is to spread the power out amongst the people.
structure a system around a non-system.
companies have no more say than the individuals that make them up. no laws governing or protecting anyone, its all about public will. there may need to be some kind of declaration before we begin...to prevent majority rules in situations where the majority is ill informed...but true, absolute democracy, with a socialist environment, leaves no chance for a curruptible official or institution. it ends the evcils of authority.
pure anarchy. the way to go.
So which is it? Anarchy or give in to a larger government? Because your quote, http://community.pearljam.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=99258&start=30, "the only institution with the authority to end war is the UN, and in order for it implement its policies, the US needs to get in line, to cede a little sovereignty for the common good., but nationalism and pride and rednecks get in the way of that goal, so we may have a ways to go yet." makes me think you don't know where you stand. An anarchist, or anyone with any common sense would never want to conform into a larger government.
Can you straighten this out for us?
sure.
nationalism is a disease. its the idea that my country is better than your country so i'm gonna come and impose my will on your people. its the idea that were' better than others so we can treat them how3ever we want.
democracy is a good thing. I would like to see a world without borders, but since that is a long way off, you need a check on the nations that think they can get away with anything, nations like Israel and the US.
The idea is to prevent genocides, to prevent holocausts, to prevent war. had we a functioning UN hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi's could still be alive today. there is need for a UN, as long as nationalism is still alive.
ideally we erase all borders, and end all governments....but even under pure anarchy you're going to need some structure, some forms of institutions to ensure things don't get out of hand. a gloabl group of democratically elected individuals in charge of a military, to prevent some random group of people form taking over the world0 -
There will always be some kind of order or organisation. Pure anarchy is a myth. As soon as arnarchy is declared there will be councils and organisations like that formed to look after their own interests and that will encroach on someone elses interests and without the law to settle these disputes things will get ugly very quickly. What we need is law reform. The crime commited needs to be taken into account and an appropriate sentence handed down. Not like we have at the moment where the length of time you spend in gaol for your crimes is dependent on how much money you have to spend on lawyers and how many glowing references you can get from fine upstanding members of your community.I can't go the library anymore, everyone STINKS!!0
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i agree to some extent. organized anarchy is the ideal goal. which i should have mentioned earlier.
things like corporations....democratize them to the fullest, each individual, from the janitor to the CEO, should have equal say in how things go down-and should have equal pay based on company profits.
so in that sense, institutions will still exist-even government to some extent, but the idea is to give as much power to the people as is logically possible.0 -
musicismylife78 wrote:LikeAnOcean wrote:musicismylife78 wrote:Capitalism doesnt work. Flat out. Any attempts to reform it will fail miserably. It cant be reformed. It needs to be destroyed as does civilization. Green Anarchy or Anarcho-primitivism is what I closely adhere to or believe, in that it suggests return to the hunting and gathering days, and getting rid of civlization and technology.
Getting rid of civilization and technology means getting rid of art, creativity, ways to express ourselves, challenge our minds.. you don't have time for that shit when you are hunting an gathering. You work to stay alive 24/7, make as many babies as you can and die a young age.
No thank you. I will fight to the death to keep civilization alive! No way I'm living in a hunting and gathering world.
Huh? Getting rid of technology stifles creativity? Thats a lie. Technology is useful. Even the staunchly anti technology Radiohead uses it. But I dont see how the proliferation of computers and cell phones and all that is a good thing.
I will be fighting with you, but to bring about the death of civilization. I mean the whole term is a joke. Do we really think of ourselves as civilized? The same culture that slaughted Native Americans, that lynched blacks, that used the Atomic Bomb, that gave black men syphillis, that perpetuates a racist justice system that throws over 1 million black men in jail, most for nonviolent drug offenses? Are we really going down that road and saying we are civilized.
Civilization began with the growing of crops and domesticated animals. So in simple terms if you plan on growing a plant or owning a cow, then you are civilized. Do you seriously believe everyone needs to live like Bear Grylls from Man vs. Wild for everything to be acceptable???
Native Americans were civilized by definition. They grew crops, raised livestock, traded, built communites.. Hell the Mayans built a freakin empire! Humans have been civilized for thousands of years! To my knowledge, uncivilized humans have never existed on the North American continent. Last time we were uncivilized we had just migrated out of Africa and into the Middle East.
And our culture killed the Native Americans??? How do you know I'm not of Native American decent? I wasn't around 200 years ago to commit such an act. How am I connected to this act? Our culture is nothing like it was 200 years ago.
That said, why are you still at your computer? Shouldn't you be hunting for food right now? Stop leaching on civilization and act on your belief already. :P0 -
musicismylife78 wrote:Capitalism doesnt work. Flat out. Any attempts to reform it will fail miserably. It cant be reformed. It needs to be destroyed as does civilization. Green Anarchy or Anarcho-primitivism is what I closely adhere to or believe, in that it suggests return to the hunting and gathering days, and getting rid of civlization and technology.
As you type on a computer plugged into a wireless router running on power from your modern apartment.0 -
Commy wrote:sure.
nationalism is a disease. its the idea that my country is better than your country so i'm gonna come and impose my will on your people. its the idea that were' better than others so we can treat them how3ever we want.
democracy is a good thing. I would like to see a world without borders, but since that is a long way off, you need a check on the nations that think they can get away with anything, nations like Israel and the US.
The idea is to prevent genocides, to prevent holocausts, to prevent war. had we a functioning UN hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi's could still be alive today. there is need for a UN, as long as nationalism is still alive.
ideally we erase all borders, and end all governments....but even under pure anarchy you're going to need some structure, some forms of institutions to ensure things don't get out of hand. a gloabl group of democratically elected individuals in charge of a military, to prevent some random group of people form taking over the world
Uh... that, by definition, is not anarchy.
What happens when that democratically elected military decides to perform a few favors for their voters to ensure reelection... or refuses to disarm and turn over the weapons when they are voted out? Welcome to the human animal... a social creature that has social stratification and tribal/clan behavior hardwired into its genes.0 -
Commy wrote:
nationalism is a disease. its the idea that my country is better than your country so i'm gonna come and impose my will on your people. its the idea that were' better than others so we can treat them how3ever we want.
Nationalism, arrogance.. same thing. My baseball team is better than your baseball team. :P
Don't think of it as a disease, when its a natural part of our genes. Yes it sometimes sucks. Yes we can do things to help "better" it, but we can't deny it is part of us and our evolution.
Don't get me wrong, I see where you are coming from and feel your frustration.0 -
without a system in place to maintain order, we would all eventually become murderous cannibals, if left to hunt and gather we would kill everything pretty quickly, we need farms that mass produce cows and chickens and fish, we need a farmer to grow hundreds of acres of corn, these systems dont work because people are not working as a team, too many selfish people who want to live in this world that was built by groups of people working as one, but still think they are the shit, i would say complete suicide for the entire planet would be the only thing that would work to everyones liking.0
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musicismylife78 wrote:Capitalism doesnt work. Flat out. Any attempts to reform it will fail miserably. It cant be reformed. It needs to be destroyed as does civilization. Green Anarchy or Anarcho-primitivism is what I closely adhere to or believe, in that it suggests return to the hunting and gathering days, and getting rid of civlization and technology.
can you explain to me what "getting rid of civilization" means?0 -
prfctlefts wrote:Commy wrote:power corrupts. I don't think many people would disagree with that.
one way to avoid that is to spread the power out amongst the people.
structure a system around a non-system.
companies have no more say than the individuals that make them up. no laws governing or protecting anyone, its all about public will. there may need to be some kind of declaration before we begin...to prevent majority rules in situations where the majority is ill informed...but true, absolute democracy, with a socialist environment, leaves no chance for a curruptible official or institution. it ends the evcils of authority.
pure anarchy. the way to go.
I would agree.BRING BACK THE WHALE0 -
The first rule of Project Mayhem, is not to talk about Project Mayhem.BRING BACK THE WHALE0
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OffHeGoes29 wrote:prfctlefts wrote:Commy wrote:power corrupts. I don't think many people would disagree with that.
one way to avoid that is to spread the power out amongst the people.
structure a system around a non-system.
companies have no more say than the individuals that make them up. no laws governing or protecting anyone, its all about public will. there may need to be some kind of declaration before we begin...to prevent majority rules in situations where the majority is ill informed...but true, absolute democracy, with a socialist environment, leaves no chance for a curruptible official or institution. it ends the evcils of authority.
pure anarchy. the way to go.
I would agree.0 -
jlew24asu wrote:musicismylife78 wrote:Capitalism doesnt work. Flat out. Any attempts to reform it will fail miserably. It cant be reformed. It needs to be destroyed as does civilization. Green Anarchy or Anarcho-primitivism is what I closely adhere to or believe, in that it suggests return to the hunting and gathering days, and getting rid of civlization and technology.
can you explain to me what "getting rid of civilization" means?
I'm thinking they want a Mad Max Beyond the Thunderdome type of anarchy.....sweet deal if you ask me, I always wanted to wear a suit made of old tires and spikes and rock an eye patch. Besides, I think my Tacoma would look good with steel armour plates welded to the side and a plow on the front.BRING BACK THE WHALE0 -
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.Post edited by skyeriverwinter on0
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skyeriverwinter wrote:I believe the way would have to be a middle path of some kind...it's out there...what is it?...I don't know exactly.. :oops:
I would say the middle ground is a free, constitutional republic, where no one's God-given rights are trumped, and based on actual free market economic principles... You know, what America is supposed to be.0 -
To be without division, I think the world would need to first adopt ONE primary language that everyone agreed to speak. :geek:&&&&&&&&&&&&&&0
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