The Remix LP is definately not as loud as the CD. I did a test transfer of the LP the other day and I had to turn my ADC all the way up and still was not at a level that the audio was going over 0db, which is a good sign. Although, in a spectral analysis at around 20000Hz there is a dark line, I am not sure yet what that is, if it means something was limited at some point prior to vinyl mastering or what. I am still researching that particular issue. The first thing I do with most anything is take it apart and see what's under the hood. I haven't really sat down to listen to any of this material, just doing some scientific analysis of the material.
Got my Super-Deluxe copy last Friday. You can definitely hear a significant difference versus the original release. I'm really happy with what O'Brien did on the Remix album but I was really hoping that they would have cleaned up 'Girl', '2,000 Mile Blues', and 'Goat' a little more. 'Brother' sounds excellent.
As to the question of whether the audio sounds compressed, there is no question. The loudness wars continue.
The funny thing about Death Magnetic, is that along with the album release it got released as an album download for Guitar Hero (just as Ten is doing for Rock Band), and that horrible compression was NOT present in the Guitar Hero version of the mix, it actually sounds great, so some kind soul out there ripped the tracks from Guitar Hero in FLAC and distributed them amongst the net where I feel if you had bought that ungodly abomination of an album from retail you have every right to seek out and download the GH version, it sounds miles ahead of the copy from store shelves, cause it has, you know, dynamics lol.
This is what I listen to. My Death Magnetic CD gathers dust. It is useless as far as I am concerned. Listening to the Guitar Hero version is like listening to entirely different songs. You can hear the bass. You can hear individual notes. Not just a wall of noise.
do a great job of explaining what all this technical mumbo jumbo is all about. People only know what they know meaning that if you have never been exposed to something different i.e. full dynamic music, then you don't realize how something can or should sound.
Just got my deluxe in the mail today and am LOVING it, so much cool stuff in it, the remixes are great, everything is fantastic! With that said though there has been some compression (nothing like Death Magnetic but its def there) but still very much listenable
If the good lord intended us to walk, he wouldn't have invented roller skates!
It pisses me off that audiophiles like me have to deal with overly compressed releases on less than state of the art formats.
Taking my time machine back to 2001, I was super excited about my first surround sound DVD-Audios and SACDs. I thought the future was bright for high quality music, but boy was I wrong.
Not only did DVD-Audio and SACD die, but inferior technology (MP3) took off and CDs continue but they now sound worse than ever. WTF!!
"I'll end up alone like I began..."
"You need the patience of like a National Geographic photographer sitting underneath the bush in a tent, trying to get a picture of zebras fucking or something for the first time." -Eddie Vedder
It pisses me off that audiophiles like me have to deal with overly compressed releases on less than state of the art formats.
Taking my time machine back to 2001, I was super excited about my first surround sound DVD-Audios and SACDs. I thought the future was bright for high quality music, but boy was I wrong.
Not only did DVD-Audio and SACD die, but inferior technology (MP3) took off and CDs continue but they now sound worse than ever. WTF!!
I'm an SACD/DVD-A guy too and I agree: this trend is just god awful.
Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
OK, after listening to it for a few days, yes it is compressed and pretty loud. But, it is nowhere near as bad as some recent albums (Death Magnetic). It is noticable but it is not as bad as I was expecting based on the comments above.
OK, after listening to it for a few days, yes it is compressed and pretty loud. But, it is nowhere near as bad as some recent albums (Death Magnetic). It is noticable but it is not as bad as I was expecting based on the comments above.
Why do they do this again??
They do this because there is the belief that the louder the album the more it will sell. Many people think their music needs to compete with others in terms of loudness otherwise it just isn't as good. Another reason is they want the music to be more noticebal in a club/bar atmosphere and finally it is due to many people having shitty playback equipment. I originally typed "...cheap, shitty..." but then I remembered there was some decent sounding stuff that I was able to purchase for a cheap price, however, high end stuff does carry a high price tag.
Also, the advent of the mp3 played a role in this as well in my opinion. Storage capacities when the mp3 first started weren't the greatest so people would rip low-quality mp3 files in order to store more music on their devices; these low quality mp3 files would sound terrible. There was the belief that overcompressing music would tailor it to the low-quality mp3 files so that people would not notice what they were actually missing out on.
I was bummed about the quality on the new remasters. My original CD from 92 (I have the European Version if it matters) sounds better. The low-end is by far nicer on the original CD, especially on "Alive". I compared them side by side and my sub woofer told the tale.
“Without music, life would be a mistake.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche-
Here is a cut and paste that really sums it up quickly....We won't see an end to these highly compressed releases anytime soon, partially because of MP3, Itunes, etc, etc...
Will the loudness wars result in quieter CDs?
Digg it
Tim Anderson
The Guardian, Thursday 10 January 2008
Article history
Perhaps, if a new industry initiative takes hold. The "loudness war" is a notorious practice of the recording industry, in which quiet sounds are raised to nearly the same level as loud sounds in order to achieve a uniformly high volume throughout a CD or digital download. The result is fatiguing for the listener and removes the wide dynamic range - a key benefit of digital audio.
The problem is that few dare to make a quiet-sounding recording. "Many mastering engineers perpetuate the loudness wars," explains producer Tony Visconti, who has worked with artists including Paul McCartney, David Bowie and Morrissey. "One once turned to me after I made a request for more dynamics and said, 'I have a reputation to uphold, I can't make it that quiet.' Really, I was just asking for the carefully mixed quiet intro to stay quiet until the rest of the band crashed in."
Florida-based recording engineer Charles Dye, whose mixing and recording credits include Bon Jovi, Jennifer Lopez and Shakira, hopes to bring about change with a new initiative called Turn Me Up (turnmeup.org), co-founded with musician John Ralston and studio owner Allen Wagner. The aim is to address the anxiety felt over recordings which are quieter than their competitors. "It all comes down to the moment a consumer hears a record, and the fear that if the record is more dynamic, the consumer won't know to just turn up the volume," says the Turn Me Up site. The proposed solution is a certification process for dynamic recordings along with a logo for qualifying recordings: "This record is intentionally quieter than some. For full enjoyment simply Turn Me Up!" says the accompanying text.
Dye says it was an earlier Guardian article about the problem (How CDs are remastering the art of noise, Guardian Technology, January 18 2007, tinyurl.com/2opok4) which "kinda got the ball rolling. Once the mainstream press started to publicise the ever-decreasing dynamic range of modern records, I knew the time was right to try to give artists back the choice to release more dynamic records."
Audiophile mastering engineer Steve Hoffman agrees. "I hope a website like Turn Me Up will make recording artists, producers, engineers and record executives take note of the growing dissatisfaction with the modern trend of brickwalling music. We in the industry have to take a stand against this music-choking loudness war practice."
It will not be easy. Despite widespread publicity, there is little sign of a reversal in the trend towards loud, highly compressed mastering. Sir Paul McCartney's 2007 release Memory Almost Full was a prime example. Another snag is that CD sales are in free fall, and those downloading their music will not even see a logo. Turn Me Up will need to attract a great deal more cross-industry support before it can hope to make an impact.
“Without music, life would be a mistake.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche-
Definitely too compressed! Like most modern masterings these days, the musically is lost in favour of loudness, give me the original Ten masterings anytime, at least I can listen to them over a long period without fatiguing my ears.
It's a shame the Redux has been destroyed by overzealous mastering and compression.
Comments
As to the question of whether the audio sounds compressed, there is no question. The loudness wars continue.
This is what I listen to. My Death Magnetic CD gathers dust. It is useless as far as I am concerned. Listening to the Guitar Hero version is like listening to entirely different songs. You can hear the bass. You can hear individual notes. Not just a wall of noise.
BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
HTFD-6/27/08
ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
OKC-11/16/13
SEA-12/6/13
TUL-10/8/14
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war
and this article at Rolling Stone http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/ ... h_fidelity
do a great job of explaining what all this technical mumbo jumbo is all about. People only know what they know meaning that if you have never been exposed to something different i.e. full dynamic music, then you don't realize how something can or should sound.
Taking my time machine back to 2001, I was super excited about my first surround sound DVD-Audios and SACDs. I thought the future was bright for high quality music, but boy was I wrong.
Not only did DVD-Audio and SACD die, but inferior technology (MP3) took off and CDs continue but they now sound worse than ever. WTF!!
"You need the patience of like a National Geographic photographer sitting underneath the bush in a tent, trying to get a picture of zebras fucking or something for the first time." -Eddie Vedder
I'm an SACD/DVD-A guy too and I agree: this trend is just god awful.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Why do they do this again??
BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
HTFD-6/27/08
ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
OKC-11/16/13
SEA-12/6/13
TUL-10/8/14
They do this because there is the belief that the louder the album the more it will sell. Many people think their music needs to compete with others in terms of loudness otherwise it just isn't as good. Another reason is they want the music to be more noticebal in a club/bar atmosphere and finally it is due to many people having shitty playback equipment. I originally typed "...cheap, shitty..." but then I remembered there was some decent sounding stuff that I was able to purchase for a cheap price, however, high end stuff does carry a high price tag.
Also, the advent of the mp3 played a role in this as well in my opinion. Storage capacities when the mp3 first started weren't the greatest so people would rip low-quality mp3 files in order to store more music on their devices; these low quality mp3 files would sound terrible. There was the belief that overcompressing music would tailor it to the low-quality mp3 files so that people would not notice what they were actually missing out on.
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showp ... tcount=344
...and another:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showp ... tcount=351
-Friedrich Nietzsche-
You need to be a member of those forums to see those. Any chance you could save/post them here?
Will the loudness wars result in quieter CDs?
Digg it
Tim Anderson
The Guardian, Thursday 10 January 2008
Article history
Perhaps, if a new industry initiative takes hold. The "loudness war" is a notorious practice of the recording industry, in which quiet sounds are raised to nearly the same level as loud sounds in order to achieve a uniformly high volume throughout a CD or digital download. The result is fatiguing for the listener and removes the wide dynamic range - a key benefit of digital audio.
The problem is that few dare to make a quiet-sounding recording. "Many mastering engineers perpetuate the loudness wars," explains producer Tony Visconti, who has worked with artists including Paul McCartney, David Bowie and Morrissey. "One once turned to me after I made a request for more dynamics and said, 'I have a reputation to uphold, I can't make it that quiet.' Really, I was just asking for the carefully mixed quiet intro to stay quiet until the rest of the band crashed in."
Florida-based recording engineer Charles Dye, whose mixing and recording credits include Bon Jovi, Jennifer Lopez and Shakira, hopes to bring about change with a new initiative called Turn Me Up (turnmeup.org), co-founded with musician John Ralston and studio owner Allen Wagner. The aim is to address the anxiety felt over recordings which are quieter than their competitors. "It all comes down to the moment a consumer hears a record, and the fear that if the record is more dynamic, the consumer won't know to just turn up the volume," says the Turn Me Up site. The proposed solution is a certification process for dynamic recordings along with a logo for qualifying recordings: "This record is intentionally quieter than some. For full enjoyment simply Turn Me Up!" says the accompanying text.
Dye says it was an earlier Guardian article about the problem (How CDs are remastering the art of noise, Guardian Technology, January 18 2007, tinyurl.com/2opok4) which "kinda got the ball rolling. Once the mainstream press started to publicise the ever-decreasing dynamic range of modern records, I knew the time was right to try to give artists back the choice to release more dynamic records."
Audiophile mastering engineer Steve Hoffman agrees. "I hope a website like Turn Me Up will make recording artists, producers, engineers and record executives take note of the growing dissatisfaction with the modern trend of brickwalling music. We in the industry have to take a stand against this music-choking loudness war practice."
It will not be easy. Despite widespread publicity, there is little sign of a reversal in the trend towards loud, highly compressed mastering. Sir Paul McCartney's 2007 release Memory Almost Full was a prime example. Another snag is that CD sales are in free fall, and those downloading their music will not even see a logo. Turn Me Up will need to attract a great deal more cross-industry support before it can hope to make an impact.
-Friedrich Nietzsche-
It's a shame the Redux has been destroyed by overzealous mastering and compression.