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Do you think Dave A wishes he was still in the band?
musicismylife78
Posts: 6,117
The general consensus I can tell, is that Dave A was kicked out, as opposed to him quitting, and that the reason was he was more into the whole rock star celebrity thing, right at the time (93,94) when the band was pulling back, and retreating. Or more accurately, the band was never into the whole rock star thing, but Dave A was.
Seeing the success the band has achieved since Dave A was kicked out, do you think he wishes he was still in the band? Its an intriguing question, because, they never got around to doing the whole rock star thing, the whole private jets, groupies, trashing hotel rooms (well ed did that!), drugs etc...
So, my answer to my post is this, I am sure he wishes he was still in Pearl Jam, as they are undoubtably one of the most important bands of our generation, at the same time, I cant imagine him being happy with No Code or some of the more "oddball and off the wall" pearl jam moves. And the fact the band doesnt really seem to even buy into their hype, I think would have been or would be tough for him
Seeing the success the band has achieved since Dave A was kicked out, do you think he wishes he was still in the band? Its an intriguing question, because, they never got around to doing the whole rock star thing, the whole private jets, groupies, trashing hotel rooms (well ed did that!), drugs etc...
So, my answer to my post is this, I am sure he wishes he was still in Pearl Jam, as they are undoubtably one of the most important bands of our generation, at the same time, I cant imagine him being happy with No Code or some of the more "oddball and off the wall" pearl jam moves. And the fact the band doesnt really seem to even buy into their hype, I think would have been or would be tough for him
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:shock:
/end story
:?
no code has a permanent home on my playlist ....
I think at the time he was the right drummer for the aggressive wild sound the band had. Most of those early shows were awesome and Dave sounded incredibly intense, he definitely raised the bar for the 93-94' shows. I read he wanted to continue writing similar songs and felt the band could become twice as big as U2. I'm assuming he was canned when the band wanted to evolve and he didn't.
- EV
Right on!!
Dave may have been a good drummer, but he didn't suit the band on any level. His style and attitude was more suited for a cock rock band like Motley Crue than Pearl Jam.
Dave got the job because neither Jack or Matt were availible to drum for Pearl Jam.
Dave was just cheap filler until they could get someone better...and thankfully they did.
This is one of the most ignorant and silly statements I've seen in years. I would bet a lot of money that the band wouldn't even agree with your statements.
Dave was an amazing drummer, perfectly suited for the music they made at that time. Think Jack would have done better on STBC? Think Matt does better on Rats? If you are knocking Dave, then you have to knock VS. & Vitalogy too.
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
They probably haven't flown commercial as a band since '91, the new Ten box set, the place/date photo book all have photos of them on or outside their various private Jets.
Here's the aircraft that took them around South America in 2005:
http://jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5647018
Also they most definitely trashed hotel rooms and or green rooms, Ed trashed his hotel room in Northern Virginia when he found out about Kurt Cobain's suicide. And unfortunately drugs and alchohol was part of the band, Stone was on the Cover of High Times!
The groupie thing they avoided, Ed had Beth and the other band members were not interested in taking advantage of naive teenage girls. It probably had to do with the fact that for starters Ed, Jeff, Mike and Stone are downright good people. Also they were older (late 20s) when they hit big, they were mature.
As for Dave, yeah I think if he could have known then what he knows now he would have tried harder not to be the squeaky wheel. From reading "Five Against One" it probably started when Dave made a big stink about Stone agreeing to give Eddie a bigger share of the pie, in the very beginning they all were getting an equal share. When they hit it huge Stone (rightfully so) saw that Eddie was the front man and becoming a huge star, he decided to give Ed a larger share which Jeff and Mike had no problems with but Dave objected. The book cites some big argument on a tour bus when Stone announced the new deal with Ed to the rest of the band, Dave made a big stink which in hindsight was probably not the best move.
Did it really mean that much to Dave that on concert tours/albums etc. he would get probably $2-3 Million while Eddie get $5-6 Million.
has a smug smirk the entire show..i dont see the depth in his eyes...the passion the others possess
of course im looking to far into this but thats what i see
Yeah - I was gonna say... by the definition of "Rock Star", the remainder of PJ was more "Rock Star" with the trashing of dressing rooms, flying private jets and drug use. Seems all Dave did was buy a comfortable but not too flashy car. Puts the "Dave was a rockstar and the others weren't" story to bed for me.
...and Ed gets paid MORE? That's f*ucked up. Perhaps nowadays Jeff should get paid least and MC should be paid most, because drums are a bit harder to play than bass... I really thought PJ had more of a communal approach to things, but no... it's all about the money. I'm a capitalist myself as I own my own business, so I'm not averse to an owner making more money because they invested money to begin a business... but I'd say for a band, unless you are hiring studio musicians for a tour here and an album there (like NIN) then all members of the band should have an equal stake. I believe REM does things this way, with writing credits and everything as "REM" (according to a friend of mine who follows them).
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
I'm not knocking Vs. and Vitalogy. Dave was a comptetant drummer...His drumming on Vs. was excellent. But it's a fact that he was pushed in those sessions really hard by both Brendon O'Brien and the band because he was having difficulty playing to the style that was needed.
Dave's studio effor on Vitalogy was good as well...but it was clearly not his style. He was clearly out of his element. The band was very fustrated with his lack of feel and abiltiy to adapt to this change in style and it's a big reason why he got canned.
Jack surpassed everything Dave did in the studio on Vitalogy. Jack had a feel for those songs that Dave just didn't have. Jack was the right drummer for that style and he was also able to adapt to the songs of No Code and Yeild which would have sounded really terrible with Dave A behind the kit.
Dave A would have been happy to keep making the commercial era of TEN/Vs over and over again; it was his style. He didn't know how to play any other way...he still plays the same to this day and hasn't changed or improved his style one bit. If you've even bothered to listen to anything he's done since...this is very evident.
The simple fact is, if Dave A was the percussive god that a large portion of Pearl Jam's fans hold him to be...He'd still be in the band.
Which songs on Vitalogy was Dave having "difficulty playing"?
I loved what Dave did on Vitalogy. The simple NFY, tight, straight-forward playing, as opposed to what it is now... I think he got canned for a few reasons... 1) PJ may have not liked his playing style, which on SOME songs I agree was too frilly with extras, but to me the positives of his playing outweighed that minor negative. 2) Band members didn't like him, for whatever reasons... maybe because Ed got greedy (assuming Ed is being paid more) and Dave stood up to that.
Nope. Jack did not surpass Dave. Jack ADDED his own talent on No Code, and IMO, Jack changed the band because Jack's abilities were different, but I think PJ wanted to go with a more simple feel for the drums, and most of all, they wanted a drummer who they felt comfortable with on a personal level, regardless of the talent. ...but on most of the earlier catalog, Jack was simply sloppy. He wasn't surpassing anyone.
...are you quoting something, or guessing, about Dave wanting to "keep making the commercial era of TEN/Vs over and over again"? I think that yes, that if Dave stayed in the band, the albums would have sounded a bit more like VS & Vitalogy. Jack's playing is SO different that it created a sea change in their following album.
You really think that, eh? Sometimes personality conflicts get in the way of things... and I think also PJ wanted to go in a simpler musical direction, as we saw they did.
...by your logic, if Beth was really as important to Ed as his lyrics suggest, then they'd still be married. Sometimes people just don't get along after a while.
However - I think PJ had a jealous eye on Cameron from the get-go and would have taken him in 1991 after Krusen's departure, if available. But Cameron as well as Irons were not available at that time and Abbruzzese was available, and they MUST have at least liked his drumming. AND if Abbruzzese were not the drummer, we would not have had VS. and Vitalogy. Just like without Jack we wouldn't have had No Code. There would have been a drastically different sound for those three albums... and so on.
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
thats exactly what I thought when I watched unplugged. His playing at the time matched well, but today, hell no. Matts completely random fills and "im gonna play the song however i feel like it today" matches their sloppy/tight style today. I cant really explain it but today they just sound so tight and sloppy at the same time, IMO they sound alot better today.
8/7/08, 6/9/09
CJMST3K - well said!
That makes no sense whatsoever and my logic does not...nor was it...meant to imply that.
Getting thrown out of a band and getting divorced are two completly different situations.
If Dave A was as crucial to the bands sound as you and others have stated, the band would have gotten over whatever personal issues they had and worked through it.
Eddie and Stone have certainly had some personal differences in the past. Neither Stone or Eddie have been thrown out of the band. Mainly because both are crucial to the sound of Pearl Jam. Dave A was not... Dave A was an average drummer at best. He was never the bands first choice for a drummer, he didn't get along with the band on a personal level, and he wasn't capable of changing with the band.
Stone stated in an interview that Dave was very talented, however the chemistry was not there between him and Jeff.
In another interview from the No Code/ Yield era, Jeff stated that the band constantly had to give Dave direction on songs because he couldn't get the feel right. Jeff said that he would urge Dave to play more like the Buzzcocks, and Dave just couldn't grasp it or get the feeling....it just wasn't his style.
Also there is the famous story about the recording of "Rearviewmirror" where both Brendon and the band were pushing Dave to play more aggressive and fast and it took multiple tries before he got it right. At the end of the song you hear him throwing his drumsticks against the wall out of fustration. Dave is rumored to have picked up his snare drum and thrown it off a cliff during the sessions for Vs as well.
It's obvious to me by the above that the issues with Dave go a little beyond personal differences. Dave even from the days of VS did not fit the band.
I think alot of Dave's problem was that he just wasn't as intense as the other members. He didn't share the same vision as the others. All you have to do is look at those performances with Dave.
It never looked right to see him sitting behind the kit with a happy-go-lucky grin on his face while the others were playing with this super intensity. Dave never fit in. He always seemed like the odd man out. Dave was on a whole other wave-length altogether.
I'm not saying that his contribution wasn't a good one.
Was it as good or better as all the other drummers? NO!!!
Was his drumming equaled or bettered by drummers that have come after him...YES!!
Cheers Niko.
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
You're nuts. The drumming in 94 kicks the shit out of what Matt does with the band. Dave was perfect for PJ. That said, it made sense for them to kick him out, given where they wanted to take the band in the Vitalogy-Yield days. Jack Irons was perfect for those albums and I don't think Dave A could have pulled those albums off. I only wish they'd gotten him to come back when Jack left. Matt has never been a comfortable fit with PJ.
I agree 100%
Dave was amazing with PJ. PJ was amazing with Dave. Just listen to Vs. and Vitalogy. It's not a coincidence they sold a ton of albums at that time. PJ's popularity around that time was also because of the live show, fueled by the fire of the band and energy of Dave.
No Code would simply not be around if Dave was in the band... but I think that was the point. They wanted to move in a different direction, and take a mental health break from what they'd been doing... and to become "friends" again. Dave had to go for some of them to be able to do that. ...though think of what might have been if Dave stayed. No NoCode, but what else would have been recorded?
Matt hasn't been a comfortable fit with them. Completely agree. However... someone in another thread posted this awesome vid of Cameron. He DOES own crash cymbals after all!! I wish he'd use them more... that would get us half-way back to where we were...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-nzmd86qO8
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
E
S
Scott
8/25/00 8/27/00 8/29/00 8/30/00 9/01/00 9/02/00
4/28/03 4/29/03 4/30/03 5/02/03 7/05/03 7/06/03
7/08/03 7/09/03 7/14/03 <---front row shook hands with ed.
10/3/05 5/13/06 5/27/06 5/28/06 6/01/06 6/3/06
6/24/06 6/19/08 6/20/08 6/24/08 6/25/08 10/27/09
10/28/09 10/30/09 10/31/09 5/15/10 5/18/10 5/20/10
5/21/10 9/7/11
It'd be nice if they finally got to that point of making up or at least acknowledging the positives in their history together. Dave brought a lot of fire and intensity to their live shows and his studio work was equally impressive in my opinion. Just watching his youtube videos has gotten me nostalgic for what this band was in their early days.
Matt is such an uncomfortable fit that he's been in the band 10+ years and played on more albums than any of the other drummers.
That being said, as someone who actually plays the drums, I know that all the drummers have skills much better than mine and I'd love to be able to play as well as any of them.
And not one of those albums is even half as good as the worst album they did prior to him joining. His style just doesn't suit the band. He is unparalleled when it comes to heavy metallic drumming, like Soundgarden or maybe Tool... drumming that requires perfect mathematic timing. But when it comes to the loose, groovy improvisation that made PJ great, Matt just doesn't have the sloppy freewheeling spirit of Jack or Dave. It's a problem when you're playing with a guy like Stone, who loves funk, hip hop, and groovy rock music more than punk or metal.
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
Yes.
my guess is that after seeing the initial broadening of style on Vs, then some outright experimentation on Vitalogy, he must have felt left out of the experimental growth of the No Code era.
Compare Ten era PJ with Vitalogy era PJ.....two entirely different bands. who knows what they could have done with him. anyway, im happier with Matt....cos none of the others can match Matt live.