I`m a drummer myself and anyone that says Matt or Jack where more technically skilled either have not a clue or only listen to punk and standard rock grooves. Being technically skilled does not equal to hit as many toms as you can. Just listen to the small fills dave did in the ten or vs songs - just tight right to the point where Matt and Jack usually played too much standard boring tom fills which might look impressive if you want to pose on video but are just lacking any inspiration. When it comes to technical skills my order is Dave A., Dave K., Matt C and then Jack Irons.
That in no way means that i do not respect Matt or Jack. I love them both.
One other thing. I`m only speaking about performances with PJ - no doubt Matt did some great stuff on superunknown!
Thank you for finding the quote. mca47 doesn't know wtf he's talking about. I wanted to correct this yesterday, but only had my cellphone and couldn't log in.
I know a lot of people like styles of other PJ drummers, but the fact is Matt is the most technical drummer that has played with them. Dave was flashy with his double pedal and his overuse of cymbals, but he was also quite sloppy. Jack was good, but also didn't stand up well in the live setting (many boots I have from this time make me cringe).
I know you asked this of the other poster, but I hope you don't mind me answering you.
Yes, I play drums. I got my first drum kit a quarter-century ago. I hope that qualify's me.
Matt is not the most technical drummer. This is just a silly statement. Again, I'm a drummer... for a long time too. Dave A was by far the most technical drummer. BY FAR. There's no comparison. Look at the technical parts of even a song like Daughter - listen to the SNL version, or another clear version. His hi-hat rudiments are insane. Matt simply cannot even do those.
For those thinking Dave can't do subtle, answer me this. "Not For You" Which one has fewer drum beats? Dave's or Matt's? Answer, Dave's has fewer drum beats. The pure and simple drive in the beginning with a tight hi-hat and simple single-bass, single-snare, single-bass, single-snare showed that Dave DOES do subtle. Matt has a looser sounding hi-hat, and he adds a "swing" to it with extra bass-drum hits. Ruins the song. It reminds me of his drumming approach on Light Years, except he's using it on NFY. C'mon Matt, learn to tighten up the hi-hat, and loosen it slowly to build anticipation.... Dave also had dynamics on this hi-hat. Songs got tighter and looser.... Matt is a one-size-fits-all player on these songs.
...so Dave, hands down, is the most technical drummer. Oh, and yes, to counter your other incorrect statement, no Dave DID NOT use a double bass pedal. Anyone who remembers reading Modern Drummer in 1993 knows this. (I'm assuming you've not read it) If not, here it is for you, so you can know what you're talking about a little better:
Modern Drummer: How dedicated were you to developing your drumming style? I know you never really took lessons, so where did your technique and flowing style come from, particularly your quick doubles with your hands and kick foot?
Dave Abbruzzese: It was Zeppelin and copping Bonham in the different bands I was playing in. I was always playing with guys who were ten years older then me, and I felt like I had to prove something to them. So it was just a matter of digging the shit out of something and pulling it off. If I heard something that blew me away, I'd put the headphones on and listen to it over and over and try to pick it up, and I wouldn't be satisfied until I learned every bit of it. And basically, over the course of time, I pretty much learned the entire Zeppelin catalog. Because at that time, at fifteen, if I could play drums like John Bonham, there'd be no stopping me. And if somebody today ever told me my bass drum style reminded them anything at all of Bonham, because he had suck a melodic approach to the kick drum, I think I'd be blown over! I think that's part of the reason I never settled for putting another bass drum up, but instead demanding that my right foot do the things it needed to do to keep up. A lot of drummers I really enjoy copying when I was younger played double bass, but I had a single bass and I just demanded myself to be able to do what they did on one kick. To me, that was all I had, so I had to work with my tomes or snare to compensate for not having that other kick. I think that accounts for a lot of the spastic style I used to have. The more I got into original music with the various bands I played in, the more I tamed and began to understand that I wanted to be more of a melodic drummer rather then a power drummer. I wanted to play powerful music, but the melody of the music has power itself. That's where a lot of the left-handed stuff on the hi-hat and cymbals come out of me. I consider myself more of a kick/snare/hi-hat/cymbal drummer than a big-fill guy. I like to find the groove, establish it, and enhance it and pull it back when it needs that. When there are four open bars, I don't want to do a big power roll there. I want to use those four bars to set up the next four bars and put everything together.
I think Dave put it very well... and to elaborate on the comment that Dave isn't a huge "fill" guy. Matt IS a big "fill" guy. Unfortunatly with Matt's approach to earlier songs, it's boring, boring, boring, fill, boring, boring, fill, boring. Also, on LO2L, Matt gets lost at the end of songs and ends early, like a whole bar early or something. Matt did that on like on two songs.... Did that happen with Dave? I don't think so.
However, on Matt-written songs, Matt does great. I'm a HUGE Matt fan... just not so much on early PJ stuff.
....and if I had to choose 1 drummer to play with PJ on their WHOLE catalog, I would choose Matt Chamberlain. That guy is probably the most WELL ROUNDED drummer.
ADD 5,200 to the post count you see, thank you.
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
Regarding the double pedal, he at the time of the article may have not used it but I know for a fact that I've seen his set up with a double kick.
Regarding the technicality of the two drummers: First of all they are two guys who have two very different styles. Dave, apparently mostly self taught and Matt who grew up learning different styles including rock, punk, jazz, blues, etc. Now I play drums too and perhaps our definitions of technical differ but to me when someone can incorporate any style into any song with any band or style, and do it consistently well without f'n up then they might have the lead on the other guy. While Dave did "more" that IMO does not make him by any means better. I have dozens of boots from the early days and I can't tell you how many times Dave (and Jeff to a lesser degree) would get waaay off beat and songs would suffer. Now I don't buy the arguement that Matt can't do some things that Dave could. Sure there might be some things but the hi-hat rudiments on a certain song? C'mon. I'm sure Matt is sitting there after his many years of playing and many years of training thinking "If I could only somehow figure that out". Riiiight.
It seems to me you just enjoy Dave's style more, and that's fine... and there are some songs that I prefer Dave's drumming on (again, maybe not his drumming but how the entire band played the song) but what it comes down to (and I mentioned this before in an early post) is the band's wanting Matt to play a certain way.
The entire band has become much more stiff and rigid live, and I'm almost certain that's exactly what they want and how they want to play now. I'm pretty sure the reason they don't play certain older songs the way they do is not because they have Matt back there who can't pull off what Dave did, but because they don't have the same meaning, and they are all in their 40s now. Shit, Ed barely moves on the stage until the end of the show, Mike basically plays the same freakin' solo's (one note never was a good solo...) and Stone is just that...like a Stone anymore.
Bottom line of my other thread...
Two very different drummers at two very different times in a band's life.
Comments
Thank you for finding the quote. mca47 doesn't know wtf he's talking about. I wanted to correct this yesterday, but only had my cellphone and couldn't log in.
I know you asked this of the other poster, but I hope you don't mind me answering you.
Yes, I play drums. I got my first drum kit a quarter-century ago. I hope that qualify's me.
Matt is not the most technical drummer. This is just a silly statement. Again, I'm a drummer... for a long time too. Dave A was by far the most technical drummer. BY FAR. There's no comparison. Look at the technical parts of even a song like Daughter - listen to the SNL version, or another clear version. His hi-hat rudiments are insane. Matt simply cannot even do those.
For those thinking Dave can't do subtle, answer me this. "Not For You" Which one has fewer drum beats? Dave's or Matt's? Answer, Dave's has fewer drum beats. The pure and simple drive in the beginning with a tight hi-hat and simple single-bass, single-snare, single-bass, single-snare showed that Dave DOES do subtle. Matt has a looser sounding hi-hat, and he adds a "swing" to it with extra bass-drum hits. Ruins the song. It reminds me of his drumming approach on Light Years, except he's using it on NFY. C'mon Matt, learn to tighten up the hi-hat, and loosen it slowly to build anticipation.... Dave also had dynamics on this hi-hat. Songs got tighter and looser.... Matt is a one-size-fits-all player on these songs.
...so Dave, hands down, is the most technical drummer. Oh, and yes, to counter your other incorrect statement, no Dave DID NOT use a double bass pedal. Anyone who remembers reading Modern Drummer in 1993 knows this. (I'm assuming you've not read it) If not, here it is for you, so you can know what you're talking about a little better:
Modern Drummer: How dedicated were you to developing your drumming style? I know you never really took lessons, so where did your technique and flowing style come from, particularly your quick doubles with your hands and kick foot?
Dave Abbruzzese: It was Zeppelin and copping Bonham in the different bands I was playing in. I was always playing with guys who were ten years older then me, and I felt like I had to prove something to them. So it was just a matter of digging the shit out of something and pulling it off. If I heard something that blew me away, I'd put the headphones on and listen to it over and over and try to pick it up, and I wouldn't be satisfied until I learned every bit of it. And basically, over the course of time, I pretty much learned the entire Zeppelin catalog. Because at that time, at fifteen, if I could play drums like John Bonham, there'd be no stopping me. And if somebody today ever told me my bass drum style reminded them anything at all of Bonham, because he had suck a melodic approach to the kick drum, I think I'd be blown over! I think that's part of the reason I never settled for putting another bass drum up, but instead demanding that my right foot do the things it needed to do to keep up. A lot of drummers I really enjoy copying when I was younger played double bass, but I had a single bass and I just demanded myself to be able to do what they did on one kick. To me, that was all I had, so I had to work with my tomes or snare to compensate for not having that other kick. I think that accounts for a lot of the spastic style I used to have. The more I got into original music with the various bands I played in, the more I tamed and began to understand that I wanted to be more of a melodic drummer rather then a power drummer. I wanted to play powerful music, but the melody of the music has power itself. That's where a lot of the left-handed stuff on the hi-hat and cymbals come out of me. I consider myself more of a kick/snare/hi-hat/cymbal drummer than a big-fill guy. I like to find the groove, establish it, and enhance it and pull it back when it needs that. When there are four open bars, I don't want to do a big power roll there. I want to use those four bars to set up the next four bars and put everything together.
I think Dave put it very well... and to elaborate on the comment that Dave isn't a huge "fill" guy. Matt IS a big "fill" guy. Unfortunatly with Matt's approach to earlier songs, it's boring, boring, boring, fill, boring, boring, fill, boring. Also, on LO2L, Matt gets lost at the end of songs and ends early, like a whole bar early or something. Matt did that on like on two songs.... Did that happen with Dave? I don't think so.
However, on Matt-written songs, Matt does great. I'm a HUGE Matt fan... just not so much on early PJ stuff.
....and if I had to choose 1 drummer to play with PJ on their WHOLE catalog, I would choose Matt Chamberlain. That guy is probably the most WELL ROUNDED drummer.
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
Regarding the technicality of the two drummers: First of all they are two guys who have two very different styles. Dave, apparently mostly self taught and Matt who grew up learning different styles including rock, punk, jazz, blues, etc. Now I play drums too and perhaps our definitions of technical differ but to me when someone can incorporate any style into any song with any band or style, and do it consistently well without f'n up then they might have the lead on the other guy. While Dave did "more" that IMO does not make him by any means better. I have dozens of boots from the early days and I can't tell you how many times Dave (and Jeff to a lesser degree) would get waaay off beat and songs would suffer. Now I don't buy the arguement that Matt can't do some things that Dave could. Sure there might be some things but the hi-hat rudiments on a certain song? C'mon. I'm sure Matt is sitting there after his many years of playing and many years of training thinking "If I could only somehow figure that out". Riiiight.
It seems to me you just enjoy Dave's style more, and that's fine... and there are some songs that I prefer Dave's drumming on (again, maybe not his drumming but how the entire band played the song) but what it comes down to (and I mentioned this before in an early post) is the band's wanting Matt to play a certain way.
The entire band has become much more stiff and rigid live, and I'm almost certain that's exactly what they want and how they want to play now. I'm pretty sure the reason they don't play certain older songs the way they do is not because they have Matt back there who can't pull off what Dave did, but because they don't have the same meaning, and they are all in their 40s now. Shit, Ed barely moves on the stage until the end of the show, Mike basically plays the same freakin' solo's (one note never was a good solo...) and Stone is just that...like a Stone anymore.
Bottom line of my other thread...
Two very different drummers at two very different times in a band's life.