How is Kings of Leon up for a Grammy?

soulsinging · January 2009

Yellow Ledbelly wrote:

Having been a fan of KoL since they released Youth and Young Manhood, which I still believe is their best by far, I must admit that I was turned off when they started dressing like pretty boys. I've never let that hinder my appreciation of their music, but, to me, changing their image like that was an indication that there #1 objective was to get played on the radio and appeal to the teeny-bopper crowd. I'm not one to begrudge any artist for wanting to be as big as they can possibly be, not at all, but it bothers me when I believe a band like KoL lets that desire determine where they go musically instead of following their natural instincts....listen to Manhood and then listen to OBtN and tell me you would have ever expected both of those albums to have come from the same band. Bands evolve of course, but they have sorta devolved in my opinion, but I actually do like a lot of OBtN and will continue to buy their albums.

It also troubles me to see such a great band being turned into a flavor of the month type of band. I mean, when the new album was about to come or just as it came out they were in Rolling Stone talking about how they haven't had the same success in the US as they had had in Europe and then they were on SNL.....it seems like they -- whether through crafty marketing or whatever -- suddenly were a great band and the critics were championing their rise to superstardom. Well, when an absolutely unbelieveable album like Manhood gets zero press or praise in the US and then a very mediocre album like OBtN is treated as one of the biggest things since sliced bread it fuckin bothers me....they should have been huge five years ago is what I am saying. I do believe they have sacrificed some of their musical integrity (and definitely their image integrity) for the sake of selling albums. I never say any band has "sold out" because I think that is an absolutely stupid thing to say, but I do wish they had remained more true to the initial path they appeared to be on.

1. Every argument you just used was levelled at Pearl Jam when grunge was the flavor of the moment. It has as much merit now as it did then.

2. Manhood was co-written by a producer, so if they ever were carefully targeting their image, it was then. The songs are all theirs now. You may not like their direction, but you not liking it is not proof that they are targeting a teeny-bopper crowd.

3. Word of mouth and buzz usually builds slow, thus why the band got no recognition for Manhood and is now coming into its own. Pearl Jam's success with Ten is the exception, not the rule.

4. Pearl Jam makes you pay to post on their message board and is rereleasing their biggest album with all sorts of double-dipping features, all sponsored by Verizon. And here you post on their board talking about how KoL's integrity is subject because their songs have better singing and choruses than they did on their first album?

Yellow Ledbelly · January 2009

I don't like pop music and OBtN is pop music to my ears. Perhaps they wanted to make a dull pop album when they put out Manhood, but they did not...they made a damn good rock n roll album. If their intent all along was the poppy sounds of OBtN then fine and good for them for finally doing what they wanted to do.

Like I said before..I never say any band has sold out for any reason, so that's not my issue. My issue with OBtN is simply that it isn't where I saw them going -- which doesn't matter in the least -- but it certainly smells like it was popped up in order to make a splash here in the states...especially when Rolling Stone had an article about how they so hoped to sell more albums here

soulsinging · January 2009

Yellow Ledbelly wrote:

I don't like pop music and OBtN is pop music to my ears. Perhaps they wanted to make a dull pop album when they put out Manhood, but they did not...they made a damn good rock n roll album. If their intent all along was the poppy sounds of OBtN then fine and good for them for finally doing what they wanted to do.

Like I said before..I never say any band has sold out for any reason, so that's not my issue. My issue with OBtN is simply that it isn't where I saw them going -- which doesn't matter in the least -- but it certainly smells like it was popped up in order to make a splash here in the states...especially when Rolling Stone had an article about how they so hoped to sell more albums here

That's a pretty disingenious argument... you claim that you never say a band has sold out, but then repeatedly post about how they are targeting teeny-boppers and have sacrificed their musical integrity for financial gain. Tell me then... what's the difference between what you've said and selling out?

I don't hesitate to call sell out when I see it. Case in point: the Who's most recent (I think 35th) best of compilation has a big sticker saying "featuring "Bargain" as heard on the Nissan commercial." That's selling out. KoL growing up into the mainstream is not. Just because you're too cool for pop music doesn't make you the measure of what it means to have integrity, no matter how much Pitchfork tries to tell you otherwise.

Yellow Ledbelly · January 2009

soulsinging wrote:

1. Every argument you just used was levelled at Pearl Jam when grunge was the flavor of the moment. It has as much merit now as it did then.

2. Manhood was co-written by a producer, so if they ever were carefully targeting their image, it was then. The songs are all theirs now. You may not like their direction, but you not liking it is not proof that they are targeting a teeny-bopper crowd.

3. Word of mouth and buzz usually builds slow, thus why the band got no recognition for Manhood and is now coming into its own. Pearl Jam's success with Ten is the exception, not the rule.

4. Pearl Jam makes you pay to post on their message board and is rereleasing their biggest album with all sorts of double-dipping features, all sponsored by Verizon. And here you post on their board talking about how KoL's integrity is subject because their songs have better singing and choruses than they did on their first album?

1. I have no argument with that
2. If they weren't targeting a teeny-bopper crowd they certainly did so even if it was dumb luck...me thinks not though
3. They are darlings of the press and the press more than anything is the reason why OBtN has gotten any recognition at all. If not for the build-up to its release it would have also sold poorly here in the states just like the others. There is no word of mouth involved in their sudden popularity, but there was plenty of hype
4. PJ in my book has never altered its image in the name of album sells, am I wrong? If KoL's image was being carefully crafted from the beginning then why didn't they were fancy boy clothes and hair cuts back then? Certainly a record company willing to take the time to craft an image for them wouldn't have had them running around in plain old t-shirts.
And again...PJ or any other band can do whatever they want with their music and sell it in any way they see fit. Perhaps PJ has taken a turn toward the money, but I care not as long as they don't turn into a pop band you will see in the #1 spot on VH1s Top 20 countdown every week.

Yellow Ledbelly · January 2009

[quote="soulsinging"That's a pretty disingenious argument... you claim that you never say a band has sold out, but then repeatedly post about how they are targeting teeny-boppers and have sacrificed their musical integrity for financial gain. Tell me then... what's the difference between what you've said and selling out?

I don't hesitate to call sell out when I see it. Case in point: the Who's most recent (I think 35th) best of compilation has a big sticker saying "featuring "Bargain" as heard on the Nissan commercial." That's selling out. KoL growing up into the mainstream is not. Just because you're too cool for pop music doesn't make you the measure of what it means to have integrity, no matter how much Pitchfork tries to tell you otherwise.[/quote]

I simply don't use the term sold out because they can damn well do what they want to do and I as a fan have no say in that. I don't, however, have to like it when I see what I believe wholeheartedly to be a change in style and image with selling more records in mind

pearljam_addiction · January 2009

I have Been a Fan of KOL since 2005, and think theyre Awesome, definitely one of my Favorite bands!. It really dissappoints me as well when i hear Fans talking shit about OBTN, its not a bad album at all, okay maybe some songs are poppy, who gives a fuck. if youre upset that they have crossed over to the mainstream, then oh well get over it. OBTN is still a great album.No one jumped on PJ when they overtly pushed their last album through every media outlet possible to garner new fans and the spotlight again.

South of Seattle · January 2009

I agree with the OP. I love KOL, but damn, this album was kinda lame. Maybe 5 good bangers on the whole album? It's not due the mainstream effect either. I thought BOTT was a fantastic album and I had high expectations for this one. I figured I might like it more live, but it came across uninspiring live also. ( with the exception of Cold Desert )

SolarWorld · January 2009

South of Seattle wrote:

I agree with the OP. I love KOL, but damn, this album was kinda lame. Maybe 5 good bangers on the whole album? It's not due the mainstream effect either. I thought BOTT was a fantastic album and I had high expectations for this one. I figured I might like it more live, but it came across uninspiring live also. ( with the exception of Cold Desert )

What he said...

ZosoCat · January 2009

I just don't like KOL circa 2008/09 because their new image is JUST about selling records, making money and making hits.. I loved the hairy, sweaty, fast (or slow trani etc.) songs of the early to mid 90's. They have def changed for better or worse.. In my opinion worse. I was a big fan from the start after I heard use somebody I got off the bandwagon straight away. They have just changed and I can't do anything about that. So I just won't be a fan anymore.

comebackgirl · January 2009

TW97526 wrote:

I would go the other way and say the grammy's mean nothing... Being nominated with the foo fighters, U2,, beyonce etc. doesn't mean anything. I thought them not being nominated for their first 3 albums was a good thing but I really dislike their new album. I see it as the opposite approach to what Pearl Jam, Silverchair and a host of other bands who didn't like the fame. They may as well be Coldplay in 2008 same type of band now. It's sad because I thought their ideals were the same as MMJ or Wilco but we were sadly mistaken. I want bands who are famous because they write good songs but keep their integrity intact. With their sharper cleaner image they have alienated some of their fans in a negative fashion. The new KOL fans are 15 girls who think Caleb is hot. I don't want that. Hopefully they change back to their credible ways next album/tour.

But Caleb is hot

Def not my fav album, but there are enough good songs to make it worth a listen (i.e. cold desert, manhatten, etc)...and closer makes me think about really dirty sex :oops:

ZosoCat · January 2009

comebackgirl wrote:

TW97526 wrote:

I would go the other way and say the grammy's mean nothing... Being nominated with the foo fighters, U2,, beyonce etc. doesn't mean anything. I thought them not being nominated for their first 3 albums was a good thing but I really dislike their new album. I see it as the opposite approach to what Pearl Jam, Silverchair and a host of other bands who didn't like the fame. They may as well be Coldplay in 2008 same type of band now. It's sad because I thought their ideals were the same as MMJ or Wilco but we were sadly mistaken. I want bands who are famous because they write good songs but keep their integrity intact. With their sharper cleaner image they have alienated some of their fans in a negative fashion. The new KOL fans are 15 girls who think Caleb is hot. I don't want that. Hopefully they change back to their credible ways next album/tour.

But Caleb is hot Def not my fav album, but there are enough good songs to make it worth a listen (i.e. cold desert, manhatten, etc)...and closer makes me think about really dirty sex :oops:

I don't care about my feelings towards the new album anymore all I can think about is comebackgirl's post

thunderDAN · January 2009

Why is everyone writing responses assuming I wrote this because they are becoming more mainstream? I wrote it because the album sucks. Nothing on the album is anything above decent. It's an album you will listen to for a couple months but once you go on with your life you will forget about it and you will forget you even own it. It doesn't have any songs that will bring you back to listen. It 's an album full of overproduced filler songs with terrible lyrics that a 5 year old can write that don't even make sense. I liked Kings of Leon's previous albums regardless of their meaningless lyrics because the music was actually kind off cool- now it's shitty lyrics with over produced music.

Closer- decent song- nothing great, but a solid song
Crawl- cool live and stripped down, album version sucks, sounds like a producer trying to creat the best song ever
Sex on Fire- shit. Doesn't even make sense. It's not even their sound
Use Somebody- being over dramatic with crap lyrics to sound like something they are not. They are being Oasis;they tried to write the best song ever, but it turned into a forgetful song sung by a band trying way too hard
Manhattan- good song
Revelry- ugh, just filler- nothing great
17- worst song KOL ever made. The lyrics suck. They music is annoying.
Notion- decent groove, but nothing spectacular- nothing terrible
I Want You- again, nothing specular. Sounds like they are trying to mimic BOTT
Be Somebody- ehh, nothing great. Music is more annoying than catchy. Lyrics are bland
Cold Desert- Trying to create the prototypical more-alternative-than-our-sound last song on an album. It's not bad, but it sure isn't great

It's not the worst album ever- but it's not the best Kings of Leon album by any means. It sounds forced and over produced- I don't know if they were chart chasing, or if they were trying to create the best album ever to be produced. I still like them. I don't care how they dress. I don't care who they hang with, and I sure as hell don't care who their core fan base is (I have no problem with young women). I just don't think this effort is any good. It's similar to the Foo Fighters. The Foo Fighter haven't put anything great out since the 90's- every one of their new albums sounds like a band trying to be the best band in the world; just listen to 'Best of Me'. They get awards, but their best years are behind them when TCATS came out. Now they are just being rock stars trying to live up to their own hype- same goes for Oasis and Coldplay- I hate putting Kings of Leon into that- which is why I wished this album would flop

DewieCox · January 2009

thunderDAN wrote:

Why is everyone writing responses assuming I wrote this because they are becoming more mainstream? I wrote it because the album sucks. Nothing on the album is anything above decent. It's an album you will listen to for a couple months but once you go on with your life you will forget about it and you will forget you even own it. It doesn't have any songs that will bring you back to listen. It 's an album full of overproduced filler songs with terrible lyrics that a 5 year old can write that don't even make sense. I liked Kings of Leon's previous albums regardless of their meaningless lyrics because the music was actually kind off cool- now it's shitty lyrics with over produced music.

Closer- decent song- nothing great, but a solid song
Crawl- cool live and stripped down, album version sucks, sounds like a producer trying to creat the best song ever
Sex on Fire- shit. Doesn't even make sense. It's not even their sound
Use Somebody- being over dramatic with crap lyrics to sound like something they are not. They are being Oasis;they tried to write the best song ever, but it turned into a forgetful song sung by a band trying way too hard
Manhattan- good song
Revelry- ugh, just filler- nothing great
17- worst song KOL ever made. The lyrics suck. They music is annoying.
Notion- decent groove, but nothing spectacular- nothing terrible
I Want You- again, nothing specular. Sounds like they are trying to mimic BOTT
Be Somebody- ehh, nothing great. Music is more annoying than catchy. Lyrics are bland
Cold Desert- Trying to create the prototypical more-alternative-than-our-sound last song on an album. It's not bad, but it sure isn't great

It's not the worst album ever- but it's not the best Kings of Leon album by any means. It sounds forced and over produced- I don't know if they were chart chasing, or if they were trying to create the best album ever to be produced. I still like them. I don't care how they dress. I don't care who they hang with, and I sure as hell don't care who their core fan base is (I have no problem with young women). I just don't think this effort is any good.

How you feel about the new album is a good approximation of the way I feel about BotT, and I would raise most of the songs a couple letter grades, from your review of OBtN.

I wasn't pointin you out about the chart chasin. Alotta the comments from the haters just seem to point in that direction.

thunderDAN · January 2009

DewieCox wrote:

thunderDAN wrote:

Why is everyone writing responses assuming I wrote this because they are becoming more mainstream? I wrote it because the album sucks. Nothing on the album is anything above decent. It's an album you will listen to for a couple months but once you go on with your life you will forget about it and you will forget you even own it. It doesn't have any songs that will bring you back to listen. It 's an album full of overproduced filler songs with terrible lyrics that a 5 year old can write that don't even make sense. I liked Kings of Leon's previous albums regardless of their meaningless lyrics because the music was actually kind off cool- now it's shitty lyrics with over produced music.

Closer- decent song- nothing great, but a solid song
Crawl- cool live and stripped down, album version sucks, sounds like a producer trying to creat the best song ever
Sex on Fire- shit. Doesn't even make sense. It's not even their sound
Use Somebody- being over dramatic with crap lyrics to sound like something they are not. They are being Oasis;they tried to write the best song ever, but it turned into a forgetful song sung by a band trying way too hard
Manhattan- good song
Revelry- ugh, just filler- nothing great
17- worst song KOL ever made. The lyrics suck. They music is annoying.
Notion- decent groove, but nothing spectacular- nothing terrible
I Want You- again, nothing specular. Sounds like they are trying to mimic BOTT
Be Somebody- ehh, nothing great. Music is more annoying than catchy. Lyrics are bland
Cold Desert- Trying to create the prototypical more-alternative-than-our-sound last song on an album. It's not bad, but it sure isn't great

It's not the worst album ever- but it's not the best Kings of Leon album by any means. It sounds forced and over produced- I don't know if they were chart chasing, or if they were trying to create the best album ever to be produced. I still like them. I don't care how they dress. I don't care who they hang with, and I sure as hell don't care who their core fan base is (I have no problem with young women). I just don't think this effort is any good.

How you feel about the new album is a good approximation of the way I feel about BotT, and I would raise most of the songs a couple letter grades, from your review of OBtN.

I wasn't pointin you out about the chart chasin. Alotta the comments from the haters just seem to point in that direction.

I agree that BOTT was the first signs of going this way- but I still like some songs on there. I think it gets hard for these guys to write songs once they hit it big and no longer have the struggle, mixed with trying to live up to expectations. They try to write songs to better their prior years but don't work as hard as they did when they were struggling. I guess this explains why just about every band that has a breakout album, gives a bomb for their next one- which I guess is what makes Pearl Jam unique. All these albums come off as rich rockstars trying to remember feelings they used to have before they were in the lifestyle. I'm not saying KoL is that, but it just sounds like it. Oasis are the posterboys to trying to live up to your past and failing miserably (though I do like some recent Oasis songs (none on their new one)). Oasis had 2 very good albums, and since then have released a bunch of flops- but they would never tell you that. They will tell you that they have written the best songs ever and we are all stupid for preferring their music of 1996 to their music of 2006; Oasis is the only band that actually says it, but all these other guys think it and don't say anything about it.

Random_Hero · January 2009

did you hear any of the crap that came out in 08? theres a reason why they got nominated.. best or the worst my friend

soulsinging · February 2009

thunderDAN wrote:

Why is everyone writing responses assuming I wrote this because they are becoming more mainstream? I wrote it because the album sucks. Nothing on the album is anything above decent. It's an album you will listen to for a couple months but once you go on with your life you will forget about it and you will forget you even own it. It doesn't have any songs that will bring you back to listen. It 's an album full of overproduced filler songs with terrible lyrics that a 5 year old can write that don't even make sense.

Because

1. Many of us disagree with it being a shit album with nothing worth hearing again. I think it's their best and the first 5 songs on there are all incredible, with none of the rest being "filler" to me.

2. You spent more time talking about their new clothes, hairstyles, and targetting teeny-boppers than you did talking about the music.

That's why we assumed that.

Sounds to me like you're opposed to anything catchy... I happen to think the Foo Fighters are still a great band. Their best album was made after TCATS (Nothing Left to Lose). True, Oasis hasn't made a great album since Morning Glory, but they've still made plenty of stuff worth hearing. As to Coldplay, their third album was terrible, the first 2 had some decent singles, but this most recent album is the only compelling album they've ever released.

So basically, I think the opposite of everything you say

upina2001 · February 2009

I honestly cant get enough of it.

LikeAnOcean · February 2009

thunderDAN wrote:

I know Grammys are a joke- but how in the hell is Only By The Night up for a Grammy? Am I missing something with this album? Don't get me wrong, I love Kings of Leon, and wish them nothing but the best- but this album was terrible. It sounded like a band that strayed from their sound and it sounds extremely involved and inflated. I could see them being given an award for any of their previous 3 albums, but why this one? I guess it pisses me off because I wished this album would flop so they would go back to their own sound and not this U2esque arena rock crap they made in 08

Someone explain what I'm missing

Opinions are a bitch. I've been trying to force myself to like Kings of Leon for years. I know the new album is a little easier to digest, but It really has opened a door for me into their music. I really like their new album.

There's nothing wrong with arena rock. Who are we kidding, Pearl Jam is the king of arena rock. How many more anthems, sing-a-longs and epic can you get?

Stu42 · February 2009

I actually like this new album. Yah, I really wish that I was listening to Youth and Youngmanhood and Aha Shake Heartbreak pt. 2, but based purely on its merits, its grown on me and I enjoy it. Closer is one of the absolute greatest songs they've ever done, while I would say that Crawl, Be Somebody and Cold Desert are also amazing songs, while the rest is good but not great to me. Basically, if this was a 4-song ep I'd be drooling over it = p Oh, and honestly the best thing about the kinds of leons early music was the song structures! Codas, diversions, tempo changes, extended bridges were EVERYWHERE. There's only one on this album, although it is awesome (on be somebody).

Although with that said, there is absolutely no way I would have listened to this album if it didn't have the Kings of Leon name in it. Everyone here is arguing over whether or not this album was just to sell albums, but honestly every single interview they've done, every single article on them, and all kidns of press have said exactly that. They're own words, they wanted to be big in America and they made the kind of record to do that. There's nothing wrong with that really, although personally, I would never give a second look to a band that is trying to make it mainstream so blatantly. And then the hair cuts and clothes don't matter, I know, but I find it extremely hard to respect any band that is willing to look the way they do. I found I couldnt even listen to the album until all memory of the image was wiped from my mind. Oh and, excuse the long windedness.

No Coder · February 2009

I have been a KOL fan since I first heard Youth, and have liked all of their albums,including loving their new one- 17 is the only song I skip on occassion, bu tstill listen to it most times. I agree that their sound has changed dramatically, but I love both sounds. Closer and Cold Desert are killer songs

How is Kings of Leon up for a Grammy?

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