The Big Scary Word
Gonzo1977
Posts: 1,696
Socialism
OOOHH BIG SCARY WORD!!!
Anyone that thinks the "Spread the Weatlh" comment has anything to do with a Socialist ecomonic plan is out of their fucking minds. It's opposite to the Republican's "Trickle Down Ecomomics" which they've been milking since the Reagan Years. And guess what?
TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS DOES NOT WORK FOLKS!!!!. How much more proof do you need of this?
The Republican's have not had a new economic plan since Ronald Reagan. It's almost laughable how they keep dragging this dead horse tax plan into every single election for the last 27 years.
Trickle Down Economics have failed us miserablely over and over again.
The very rich in this country do not let their money trickle down...The wealth get's clogged at the top and it stays there.
What Obama is proposing is almost identical to what Bill Clinton's tax plan was...what...16 YEARS AGO?? and the Republican's called that a "Socialist Plan" back then as well.
Thing was...IT ACTUALLY WORKED!!! We had the highest job growth this country had ever seen. The economy during the Clinton years was the best in our lifetime. People had jobs and we had an SURPLUS.
How quickly we forget.
Obama's plan like Clinton's is a re-structuring of the tax system. It's meant to stimulate Middle Class America...Put more money in the pockets of Middle Class Families so that they can buy Houses, Cars, Clothes, Food and move the economy.
So what's the problem here?
The majority of us are not amoung the very rich that John McCain wants to reward.
We all probably fall right square in the Middle Class Tax Bracket which Obama wants to stimulate.
Don't buy into this Recycled Republican Retoric.
OOOHH BIG SCARY WORD!!!
Anyone that thinks the "Spread the Weatlh" comment has anything to do with a Socialist ecomonic plan is out of their fucking minds. It's opposite to the Republican's "Trickle Down Ecomomics" which they've been milking since the Reagan Years. And guess what?
TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS DOES NOT WORK FOLKS!!!!. How much more proof do you need of this?
The Republican's have not had a new economic plan since Ronald Reagan. It's almost laughable how they keep dragging this dead horse tax plan into every single election for the last 27 years.
Trickle Down Economics have failed us miserablely over and over again.
The very rich in this country do not let their money trickle down...The wealth get's clogged at the top and it stays there.
What Obama is proposing is almost identical to what Bill Clinton's tax plan was...what...16 YEARS AGO?? and the Republican's called that a "Socialist Plan" back then as well.
Thing was...IT ACTUALLY WORKED!!! We had the highest job growth this country had ever seen. The economy during the Clinton years was the best in our lifetime. People had jobs and we had an SURPLUS.
How quickly we forget.
Obama's plan like Clinton's is a re-structuring of the tax system. It's meant to stimulate Middle Class America...Put more money in the pockets of Middle Class Families so that they can buy Houses, Cars, Clothes, Food and move the economy.
So what's the problem here?
The majority of us are not amoung the very rich that John McCain wants to reward.
We all probably fall right square in the Middle Class Tax Bracket which Obama wants to stimulate.
Don't buy into this Recycled Republican Retoric.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
and to make it clear im no way rich by any means
its ok Obama and his Socialism is coming so you can stop being bitter and get your piece of the pie without having to work for it
and the reason why the economy is the way it is is because of the stupid loans that were forced to be given to people who couldnt afford them...you can blame the majority of the Dems and some Repubs for forcing that one on loan companies
what do you think is going to happen if you take more money from the "rich"...people will lose jobs so the "rich" dont lose more money....you tax the oil companies more, do you think they are going to eat the cost? hell no, they will raise prices on consumers
Wow!!
Do you watch Fox News much?
I'm very happy for you that Trickle Down Economics worked for you. You're in the minority and definatley on a completly different reality than about 99.9% of the rest of the United States...Must be nice to be living in a haze of false reality.
Trickle Down Economics has been nothing short of a disaster. The "Regan Revolution" as it's so glummly refered to by waterhead Reaganite Republican's like Bush Sr. George W, and John McCain like to mask the fact that under this horrific and utterly greed based tax plan, "Trickle Down Economics cut income taxes on the very rich from 70% down to 27%. Corporate tax rates were also cut so severely that they went from representing over 33% of total federal tax receipts in 1951 to less than 9% in 1983!!! These are the lowest in the industrialized world !!!
Thanks to Reagan The Government was so badly awash in red ink that Reagan doubled the tax paid only by people earning less than $40,000/year.
The idea that money will some how trickle down through the troths and fall upon the middle class is a naive and utterly fabricated idea.
The plan never works because in order for it to work, It means that Republican's actually have to control their spending. Something which they always promise to do but never actually acomplish.
Because of this repeated failure we end up with a crushing deficit that often leads to cutting of social programs and government programs that directly aid the Middle Class and Poor in this Country and most horrifically ends up with some Asshole like Reagan, Bush Sr, George W, tapping into the US Social Security Trust Fund
Reagan most notably had to borrow more money in his 8 years than the sum total of all presidents from George Washington to Jimmy Carter combined!!!!!!!
Trickle Down Economics is nothing more than a ploy to pad the pockets of the very wealthy in this country.
I'm glad you got rich off it my Friend. But It hasn't worked for a large portion of this country and it has absoulutley nothing to do with Hard Work.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
try this one on for size ... President of the United States: Sarah Palin
that doesnt scare me cause it aint gonna happen.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Ok just to point out a few flaws in your argument.
1. No one is going to get money they didn't earn. Obama's tax plan let's anyone making under $250,000 keep more of the money they earned. So this notion that we are going to be sending people in lower tax brackets a check they didn't work for is beyond stupid.
2. The reason the economy is in the shape it's in has little to do with the bad loans. They have a part to play in all this but the biggest role goes to lending institutions who where packaging up these risky loans and selling them as mortgage backed securities. Also the Federal reserve's manipulation of interest rates plays a major role in the crisis. The financial sector and the FED banked on the housing bubble to keep expanding and never burst, which is completely idiotic. Had they taken the housing bubble for what it was and not invested so much capital in it we would not be in the middle of this mess.
3. The federal government can not force banks and mortgage companies to make loans. The federal government has no authority to do so. What the federal government did was come in and prevent banks from "Red Lining" which was a tactic used by banks to disqualify an applicant simply based on the neighborhood he/she lived in.
4. Yes it is possible that over taxing business and the higher income bracket can have a negative effect on our economy and that is why I am weary of Obama's tax plan but the reason you mentioned are pretty much utter bullshit.
If you actually attribute that to Clinton's policies, rather than to a private sector tech boom, you're very confused. Clinton was a caretaker president, and did a fine job of it. He neither harmed nor helped the boom that was taking place.
if you work and get a paycheck, trickle down economics worked for you
i work for major league baseball, they make a crap ton of money and i get some of it with a paycheck, get paid descent for what i do..dont know what to tell you
i also dont think someone who did something with their life and makes alot of money shouldnt have to give more money to someone who chose mediocrity
some of the poorest cities in America were/are run by the same policies that Obama wants to put upon the country...Detroit, Cleveland, St. Louis..i could go on
a perfect example of Obama's policies are Indians..look at what the governemnt did to them and their reservations? they are amongst the poorest people in the US..why? the government gave them handouts
its all in a little research...if you think Obama is the savior, just like with anything, time will show your the truth
and one last thing..."watch Fox News much"...find something new to use, thats old and overplayed...just because someone has an alternative view to yours doesnt mean they only watch Fox News
That is true but I think the point he was trying to make was that his tax plan didn't hurt. Of course those where different times and Clinton presiding over an up market and a strong economy. I honestly don't think that either tax plan is any good. I don't think they will damage our economy but they definitely will not help it.
it is definitely a possibility - this is the american electoral system: mccain is by no means out of this election ...
yeah but me dying is also a possibility and that doesnt scare me either.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
1. all you have to do is have a job and you get money back, you dont ever of had to pay taxes to get a refund
2. agree
3. the federal government does what they want and barney frank and co. did force loan companies to give out bad loans to minorities and people who financially couldnt afford them..that just takes a little research
I agree. I feel the same way you do about the tax plans. Not enough difference to get me excited, and neither has a spending reduction plan, so nothing will be resolved.
yeah ... you're not afraid of dying but would you be afraid if Sarah Palin was president?
Also, I find it funny that McCain and Palin are really harping on this (not that they have many choices they're pretty desperate right now) when the governor herself said this recently. This is her quote:
"And Alaska - we're set up, unlike other states in the union, where it's collectively Alaskans own the resources, so we SHARE IN THE WEALTH when the development of these resources occurs."
OOPS! Like someone here said the other day, I think her snake ate it's own tail.
1. You need to file and have taxes taken out of your paycheck in order to receive a refund. I have never heard of someone getting a refund when they didn't pay taxes. That refund is basically the federal government giving you back some of the money they took from you.
2. We agree so no need to discuss.
3. The federal government can not force a public or privately held company to loan out money. I'm not making that up, my girlfriend works in the banking industry and has extensive knowledge on every banking industry regulation because she has to, it's part of her job. The federal government can suggest that the loan to less qualified candidates, they can relax regulations across the industry if they do so as a favor , but they can't force the banks to underwrite those loans. The banks did this to themselves. they where awash in capital because of the FED lowering of interest rates and they saw a way to make even more money by giving adjustable interest loans to under-qualified applicants. The only think the federal government did wrong was sit back and watch the banks do this, knowing that it could have a potential devastating outcome in the long term.
To me a spending reduction, a significant across the board spending reduction, is the the most important part of a new budget policy. Without that at the fore front it's pretty much crap to me.
The economy increase because of the massive debt Americans where getting themselves into. There was no job growth, their was no increase in Medium HH income. The growth was completely based on the housing bubble and that's it. Bush's tax cuts neither helped nor hurt us as it had little effect on the economy. The only think his tax cuts did was erase a budget surplus.
I would also like to know how restructuring the tax brackets is "spreading the wealth"? Is Bill gates going to start sending every family in the US a check every month? No, all it simply means is that people in the lower tax brackets get to keep more of the money they worked for, which is great. People in the higher tax bracket get to keep less, which in my opinion is not a great idea, but that is in no way a redistribution of wealth or socialism. People who are saying this have no idea what a real distribution of wealth or socialism really is. Trust having parents who lived in a country that practiced socialism and a real distribution of wealth I have learned enough to know that Obama's plan, as faulty as it is, is no where near that.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Federal taxes are a form of socialism if you think about it. For example I live in NJ and for every dollar in federal taxes paid in this state we only receive around $.60. Other states in the union receive about $2.00 for ever $1.00 in federal taxes paid. So in a sense that is socialism, they government is redistributing the wealth from certain states to others that may not have the same level of capital.
Really? Trickle Down Economics is the reason I get a paycheck? Are you really that Naive? Corporate CEO's now earn anywhere from 500-1000 times the salary of their average employee!!! Not to mention CEO's are pretty much guaranteed under a Trickle Down Republican Tax plan a "platinum" parachute worth hundreds of millions of dollars in severance and retirement pay. Do I really need to bring up AIG, ENRON as examples? Trickle Down economics prevents regulations against these abuses. Again...I'm glad it worked for you but arguments such as the above show a complete ignorance and utter lack of understanding of basic Economics.
Again...What the hell is wrong with you? Are you saying that because someone doesn't make as much money as you that they don't work incredibley hard for their living and that they chose "Mediocrity". That's Complete Bullshit!!! Again your utter lack of understanding in economics is what obviously leads you to make such ignorant and obtuse comments like the above.
What you're failing to realize is that The typical "rich" person qualifies for more credits rebates and exceptions than middle class tax payers.
This is because they recieve mostly unearned income". This is basically any income that you don't have to work for: interest, capital gains, dividends, rent paid on real estate, etc. They don't do anything for the interest their savings account earns. They basically get money just for having the money sitting there, hence it is "unearned" and This is where the very rich get a break in their taxes and with the right accountan pay less taxes then their lowest paid employee.
WOW!!! I'll let this one stand on it's own.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
A national sales tax is the system I prefer, like the Fair Tax.
It sounds good in theory. And It's fair in principle
But it can't work because our income and assets are not on an equal plain with the very wealthy in this Country. We'd in turn get royally screwed if that was the case.
Especially because of all the Tax breaks that are currently in place for the Wealthy. Things like captial gains, and various loopholes that the rich utilize to avoid paying taxes on 90% of their actual income; Loopholes that aren't availible for Middle Class America.
We'd get screwed because the Wealthy would continue to pay 0 taxes while the rest of us end up paying out the ass.
Another overlooked fact is The very rich in this country don't pay into things like Medicare, or Social Securty unlike 95% of the American People. It just makes it all the more vile when Republican President's like Bush Sr. Reagan, and George W all tap into and Borrow from Social Security and suck it dry.
We forget that things like Social Security used to work very well before Greedy Politicians "On both Sides of The Floor" decided to tap into it and bleed it dry.
It's an absurd notion to think that keeping the very rich "Very Rich" is somehow magically going trickledown and improve the standard of living for all of us.
This neither stimulates the economy or creates jobs.
It's a myth. And It's a tax system that just doesn't work.
Anyone that has income pays SS tax and Medicare - sure SS has a cap which is fair if your not allowed to receive SS for the amount you get taxed on. Is it fair for someone to pay 5-10 times the amount of SS and then when both people retire they collect the same amount?
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
Fact is our money isn't on the same level. The rich do not claim 90% of their income. Much of their money and assets are locked away in high yeild interest accounts, they gain a ton of money off of investments and other assets that although generate massive income, do not get taxed a single cent...It never get's touched by the Government. It's all in the way you move the money around.
I'm not saying that flat tax wouldn't work on principle and theory. It's just there would have to be a ton of regulation implimented to prevent the rich from avoiding 90% of their income to get taxed.
The top 1% pay 90% of the taxes - not sure where you get the fact they don't pay on 90% of their income?
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
So you're saying Indians are fucked by policies similar to Obama's? If his policies are so bad for them, why have most (if not all) of the tribes endorsed Obama?
Regardless of Obama, I can't believe you're saying the reason Indians are so poor/fucked is because the U.S. government has given them too much.... just... WOW... I don't even know what to say...