Carter and Hamas

GauchoB wrote:

It's a scary place. The mods let all kind of radical racist anti semitic shit go on here which is why he still exists because they share his views.

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

Did you just call the mods anti-semitic? Are you TRYING to get banned?

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

I didn't put words in your mouth. You accused Byrnzie of being anti-semitic, and then said the mods shared his views. Which seems to me to be an unprovoked attack.

GauchoB wrote:

You obviously are a member of his Parrot club. Try to be objective, and scroll through all his various rants where he threatens to ban people at every turn, calls their opinions horseshit, or tells them to fuck off if they dont agree with his line of crap. So spare me the unprovoked garbage. Every one of his posts is a provocation and frankly if someone needs to be banned to clean up the neighborhood then maybe the Mods should try taking him down and see if the place settles down.

GauchoB wrote:

How about hundreds and hundreds of posts, threads, and spams. Not just a couple news reports. This person clearly has an obsession and doesn't mind making offensive analogies between Nazi Germany and Israel. If you don't see how that might be a tad bit offensive then you obviously have had one too many Kilkennys.

GauchoB wrote:

How about hundreds and hundreds of posts, threads, and spams. Not just a couple news reports. This person clearly has an obsession and doesn't mind making offensive analogies between Nazi Germany and Israel. If you don't see how that might be a tad bit offensive then you obviously have had one too many Kilkennys.

Byrnzie wrote:

Have a chip on your shoulder do ya?
Sounds like you have an obsession with me.

Anyway, in response to the other thread on this exact same subject that you pointlessly created, I'll again offer you the chance to read and comment upon this article which you obviously ignored before...


Why does The Times recognize Israel's 'right to exist'?
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/rte.html
Saree Makdisi
Los Angeles Times
March 11, 2007


'As soon as certain topics are raised," George Orwell once wrote, "the concrete melts into the abstract and no one seems able to think of turns of speech that are not hackneyed: Prose consists less and less of words chosen for the sake of their meaning, and more and more of phrases tacked together like the sections of a prefabricated henhouse." Such a combination of vagueness and sheer incompetence in language, Orwell warned, leads to political conformity.

No issue better illustrates Orwell's point than coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in the United States. Consider, for example, the editorial in The Times on Feb. 9 demanding that the Palestinians "recognize Israel" and its "right to exist." This is a common enough sentiment – even a cliche. Yet many observers (most recently the international lawyer John Whitbeck) have pointed out that this proposition, assiduously propagated by Israel's advocates and uncritically reiterated by American politicians and journalists, is – at best – utterly nonsensical.

First, the formal diplomatic language of "recognition" is traditionally used by one state with respect to another state. It is literally meaningless for a non-state to "recognize" a state. Moreover, in diplomacy, such recognition is supposed to be mutual. In order to earn its own recognition, Israel would have to simultaneously recognize the state of Palestine. This it steadfastly refuses to do (and for some reason, there are no high-minded newspaper editorials demanding that it do so).

Second, which Israel, precisely, are the Palestinians being asked to "recognize?" Israel has stubbornly refused to declare its own borders. So, territorially speaking, "Israel" is an open-ended concept. Are the Palestinians to recognize the Israel that ends at the lines proposed by the 1947 U.N. Partition Plan? Or the one that extends to the 1949 Armistice Line (the de facto border that resulted from the 1948 war)? Or does Israel include the West Bank and East Jerusalem, which it has occupied in violation of international law for 40 years – and which maps in its school textbooks show as part of "Israel"?

For that matter, why should the Palestinians recognize an Israel that refuses to accept international law, submit to U.N. resolutions or readmit the Palestinians wrongfully expelled from their homes in 1948 and barred from returning ever since?

If none of these questions are easy to answer, why are such demands being made of the Palestinians? And why is nothing demanded of Israel in turn?

Orwell was right. It is much easier to recycle meaningless phrases than to ask – let alone to answer – difficult questions. But recycling these empty phrases serves a purpose. Endlessly repeating the mantra that the Palestinians don't recognize Israel helps paint Israel as an innocent victim, politely asking to be recognized but being rebuffed by its cruel enemies.

Actually, it asks even more. Israel wants the Palestinians, half of whom were driven from their homeland so that a Jewish state could be created in 1948, to recognize not merely that it exists (which is undeniable) but that it is "right" that it exists – that it was right for them to have been dispossessed of their homes, their property and their livelihoods so that a Jewish state could be created on their land. The Palestinians are not the world's first dispossessed people, but they are the first to be asked to legitimize what happened to them.

A just peace will require Israelis and Palestinians to reconcile and recognize each other's rights. It will not require that Palestinians give their moral seal of approval to the catastrophe that befell them. Meaningless at best, cynical and manipulative at worst, such a demand may suit Israel's purposes, but it does not serve The Times or its readers.

And yet The Times consistently adopts Israel's language and, hence, its point of view. For example, a recent article on Israel's Palestinian minority referred to that minority not as "Palestinian" but as generically "Arab," Israel's official term for a population whose full political and human rights it refuses to recognize. To fail to acknowledge the living Palestinian presence inside Israel (and its enduring continuity with the rest of the Palestinian people) is to elide the history at the heart of the conflict – and to deny the legitimacy of Palestinian claims and rights.

This is exactly what Israel wants. Indeed, its demand that its "right to exist" be recognized reflects its own anxiety, not about its existence but about its failure to successfully eliminate the Palestinians' presence inside their homeland – a failure for which verbal recognition would serve merely a palliative and therapeutic function.

In uncritically adopting Israel's own fraught terminology – a form of verbal erasure designed to extend the physical destruction of Palestine – The Times is taking sides.

If the paper wants its readers to understand the nature of this conflict, however, it should not go on acting as though only one side has a story to tell.'