Then who decides what are justifiable majors to take out student loans for? People seem awfully quick to deem music and art as worthless majors, yet the primary reason we are all post here is Pearl Jam (music). And what if you start out as an biology major and decide to switch to something like fine arts or history. Should your ability to take out loans change?
What I don't understand is why people are incurring such high interest off these loans. Maybe things have changed but when I graduated I consolidated my loans and got a VERY low rate. I forgot what the example someone gave for how much of the balance was interest but that seemed really high. I think my interest rate is around 2.4%.
The interest rates changes as the economy changed. You may have been able to lock in the low interest rate during the "golden" years of the early 2000, but now it is much harder to get an interest rate any better than 7%
Then who decides what are justifiable majors to take out student loans for? People seem awfully quick to deem music and art as worthless majors, yet the primary reason we are all post here is Pearl Jam (music). And what if you start out as an biology major and decide to switch to something like fine arts or history. Should your ability to take out loans change?
I don't necessarily think that music or art are worthless degrees, but I do think that you have much less potential to earn the money to pay your loan back if you have a degree in art compared to a law, business or engineering degree. And I that is how you it would be decided, by the loaner, what is justifible. I mean it is the same with anything. If you are unemployed you are probably not going to get a loan, but if you have a good, high paying job you are much more likely to get a loan.
Plus as far as this being a board about art, I don't think any of the members of Pearl Jam have degrees in music. Kind of hurts your argument about the importance of music education.
I read this yesterday. the $160K for a music major jumped out at me enough to announce it to my nearby GF who was also shocked.
I ran up about 30K going to a SUNY school. I also had some help from my late Grandpa's investment money and some light work on my end. My parents helped out a bit too.
The loan has been manageable, and I had every opportunity to lock in at low rates, and extend the payment plan for a really long time while I get my career to a point where I can pay a lot more than the minimum. Kind of treaded water for awhile until I was ready and over 1 year, I am paying off the last 17K of the loan (as opposed to 6 years to pay the 1st 13K). Paid a lot in interest, but the rate is pretty low and the interest is tax deductable.
Paying off the loan got hairy when paired with a few bad financial decisions in my 20's. I moved away from home, I bought a vehicle I couldnt really afford, and ran up some cc debt.
I changed my habits and did research and found a way to make it work.
The moral of my story is: I had 30K in loans. They would have been easy to pay off if I made all the correct decisions. I screwed up and had a little turbulence (still never missed a payment)... But me thinking that someone being 'forced' to move out of the country from this has screwed up in more ways than borrowing a lot of student loan money. Medical expenses are a different thing. But $160K for music is a bad move.
BTW I work in a totally unrelated field that I went to college for.
The interest rates changes as the economy changed. You may have been able to lock in the low interest rate during the "golden" years of the early 2000, but now it is much harder to get an interest rate any better than 7%
Makes sense given the changes in the economy of late. I guess I should have said this first but i graduated in May of 05 and didn't consolidate till later that year. I guess I didn't think they would change that much since then.
umm, Jeff has a degree in art at University of Montana and Stone studied music. If you don't understand the importance of music education, I can't explain it to you. It's part of a well rounded liberal arts education.
And I know plenty of unemployed people who majored in business, political science or engineering. There may traditionally be less earning potential with art or music major but it really boils down to what you personally do with your education whatever the major. And there is no way for loan companies to determine that before giving you the loan. I really find it hard to believe that people who appreciate Pearl Jam (and thus music) to the degree board members do don't support music and art. Maybe it's not for you, but you can't deny what it contributes to the culture.
umm, Jeff has a degree in art at University of Montana and Stone studied music. If you don't understand the importance of music education, I can't explain it to you. It's part of a well round liberal arts education.
And I know plenty of unemployed people who majored in business, political science or engineering. There may traditionally be less earning potential with art or music major but it really boils down to what you personally do with your education whatever the major. And there is no way for loan companies to determine that before giving you the loan. I really find it hard to believe that people who appreciate Pearl Jam (and thus music) to the degree board members do don't support music and art. Maybe it's not for you, but you can't deny what it contributes to the culture.
I don't think it's just about art degrees. Seems to me like people who don't value the liberal arts in general want to pass judgement that no one should receive student loans to obtain these degrees. I guess in a perfect world everyone would study business...
umm, Jeff has a degree in art at University of Montana and Stone studied music. If you don't understand the importance of music education, I can't explain it to you. It's part of a well rounded liberal arts education.
And I know plenty of unemployed people who majored in business, political science or engineering. There may traditionally be less earning potential with art or music major but it really boils down to what you personally do with your education whatever the major. And there is no way for loan companies to determine that before giving you the loan. I really find it hard to believe that people who appreciate Pearl Jam (and thus music) to the degree board members do don't support music and art. Maybe it's not for you, but you can't deny what it contributes to the culture.
According to this interview with Jeff he left university before finishing his degree. I am not trying to deny what art contributes to culture, but if a guy like Eddie can write amazing songs without even finishing high school, it is hard to equate the importance of art with the importance of art education.
There is no way for loan companies to determine exactly what a person will make before they give out the loan, but it is pretty easy to figure out on average what a person will be making based on what type of degree they will have, and using that as a guide for what loans are lower and higher risk.
Then who decides what are justifiable majors to take out student loans for? People seem awfully quick to deem music and art as worthless majors, yet the primary reason we are all post here is Pearl Jam (music). And what if you start out as an biology major and decide to switch to something like fine arts or history. Should your ability to take out loans change?
What college did the members of Pearl Jam get their music degrees from?
an art or music education can be worth it, but the degrees are pretty meaningless. for every art job i've ever had, no one asked me if i had a degree (i dont), all that matters is how good your portfolio is, and the money is the same whether you have a degree or not. its the same with music. a degree in those fields is just a piece of paper.
I agree that everyone should be able to go to college, but people need to do a bit of planning ahead of time:
If your dream is to get a masters in music, you should realize that a high-paying job may be difficult to find once you graduate, so the debt you incur may be more difficult to pay-off then it might be for someone who gets a more practical degree.
If you know that your debt service may be a problem, go to a cheaper school.
If you have your heart set on getting a Masters in English lit, realize that you may have a difficult time finding a snazzy job afterwards.
Its important to follow your dreams, but it is just as important to be practical in the pursuit.
People need to be smart about their choice of schools. I was accepted to NYU but I knew that my Pell Grant and the little bit of money my parents had put aside for my college wouldn't be near enough to pay for the tuition. I sure as hell didn't want to be paying off college loans till I was 80. So I decided to go to a school that wasn't as expensive, St. John's University. People really need to consider how they will pay, and if they want to be burdened with, tens of thousands of dollars in loans after they graduate.
And I know this is very judgmental of me but someone has to be a complete idiot to accumulate 70K worth of student loans to study music. What the fuck are you going to do with a degree in Music.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
People need to be smart about their choice of schools. I was accepted to NYU but I knew that my Pell Grant and the little bit of money my parents had put aside for my college wouldn't be near enough to pay for the tuition. I sure as hell didn't want to be paying off college loans till I was 80. So I decided to go to a school that wasn't as expensive, St. John's University. People really need to consider how they will pay, and if they want to be burdened with, tens of thousands of dollars in loans after they graduate.
On top of that people entering University need to realize that no one really cares where you did your undergraduate. No one really tells you this when you are in high school. But when you think about it most careers where you need a degree most people just care that you have the degree and you are competent at the job. I don't think once since I have graduated where the school I went to made any difference in anything, and no one has ever asked me what my GPA was.
And if you are going for a career where you need a post-graduate degree, no one still cares where you got your bachelors. I mean when was the last time you cared about where your doctor or lawyer did their premed or prelaw. If you care at all you care about where they went to medschool or law school. I mean what is better premed at Harvard and your MD from Hollywood Upstairs Medical College or the opposite?
Plus a bunch of my friends have done masters degrees, and to get into grad schools even then most schools don't really care where you did your undergrad. As long as you have the degree and can do well on the required aptitude tests. It is a bonus if you can get grant funding.
On top of that people entering University need to realize that no one really cares where you did your undergraduate. No one really tells you this when you are in high school. But when you think about it most careers where you need a degree most people just care that you have the degree and you are competent at the job. I don't think once since I have graduated where the school I went to made any difference in anything, and no one has ever asked me what my GPA was.
And if you are going for a career where you need a post-graduate degree, no one still cares where you got your bachelors. I mean when was the last time you cared about where your doctor or lawyer did their premed or prelaw. If you care at all you care about where they went to medschool or law school. I mean what is better premed at Harvard and your MD from Hollywood Upstairs Medical College or the opposite?
Plus a bunch of my friends have done masters degrees, and to get into grad schools even then most schools don't really care where you did your undergrad. As long as you have the degree and can do well on the required aptitude tests. It is a bonus if you can get grant funding.
Completely agree. When I started interviewing after college my friends who went to the School Of Visual Arts kept telling me that I would never find a job as a graphic designer because i didn't go to a design school. How wrong they where and I only paid 1/3 of what they did for tuition.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I agree that everyone should be able to go to college, but people need to do a bit of planning ahead of time:
I think I would modify you statement to say everyone who really wants to go to college should be able to. I think a lot of times spots and funding are used up on people who don't really want to be at university but they either think they should, or have nothing better to do. I went to University in BC in the 1990's. Tuition was really cheap since there was like a 7 year tuition freeze. Except you had tons of people who I got the feeling were there to hang out and play hackey sack, or just take random classes. Now it bugged me since it is possible that those people were taking up spots from people who really wanted to go to university but couldn't get in or couldn't pay. Plus the people who were there to hang out were always the people who were either on student government (because they had the time to do it) or were the ones who complained the most about high tuition fees.
Perhaps students loans should be based on what you are studying...you know, making it harder for a music major to get a loan then say a nursing student.
Isn't a fundemental basis of loaning money having a loanee able to repay the loan?
I know you're joking, but that's NOT what I was implying. I was saying that the students need to be responsible for what they are borrowing.
I have a doctorate in music, but I did NOT borrow a huge amount of money to go to school. My three degrees all together only left me with about $15,000 worth of debt. I had to work all through grad school but it was worth it to be relatively unencumbered afterwards.
Comments
The interest rates changes as the economy changed. You may have been able to lock in the low interest rate during the "golden" years of the early 2000, but now it is much harder to get an interest rate any better than 7%
I don't necessarily think that music or art are worthless degrees, but I do think that you have much less potential to earn the money to pay your loan back if you have a degree in art compared to a law, business or engineering degree. And I that is how you it would be decided, by the loaner, what is justifible. I mean it is the same with anything. If you are unemployed you are probably not going to get a loan, but if you have a good, high paying job you are much more likely to get a loan.
Plus as far as this being a board about art, I don't think any of the members of Pearl Jam have degrees in music. Kind of hurts your argument about the importance of music education.
I ran up about 30K going to a SUNY school. I also had some help from my late Grandpa's investment money and some light work on my end. My parents helped out a bit too.
The loan has been manageable, and I had every opportunity to lock in at low rates, and extend the payment plan for a really long time while I get my career to a point where I can pay a lot more than the minimum. Kind of treaded water for awhile until I was ready and over 1 year, I am paying off the last 17K of the loan (as opposed to 6 years to pay the 1st 13K). Paid a lot in interest, but the rate is pretty low and the interest is tax deductable.
Paying off the loan got hairy when paired with a few bad financial decisions in my 20's. I moved away from home, I bought a vehicle I couldnt really afford, and ran up some cc debt.
I changed my habits and did research and found a way to make it work.
The moral of my story is: I had 30K in loans. They would have been easy to pay off if I made all the correct decisions. I screwed up and had a little turbulence (still never missed a payment)... But me thinking that someone being 'forced' to move out of the country from this has screwed up in more ways than borrowing a lot of student loan money. Medical expenses are a different thing. But $160K for music is a bad move.
BTW I work in a totally unrelated field that I went to college for.
Makes sense given the changes in the economy of late. I guess I should have said this first but i graduated in May of 05 and didn't consolidate till later that year. I guess I didn't think they would change that much since then.
And I know plenty of unemployed people who majored in business, political science or engineering. There may traditionally be less earning potential with art or music major but it really boils down to what you personally do with your education whatever the major. And there is no way for loan companies to determine that before giving you the loan. I really find it hard to believe that people who appreciate Pearl Jam (and thus music) to the degree board members do don't support music and art. Maybe it's not for you, but you can't deny what it contributes to the culture.
I don't think it's just about art degrees. Seems to me like people who don't value the liberal arts in general want to pass judgement that no one should receive student loans to obtain these degrees. I guess in a perfect world everyone would study business...
According to this interview with Jeff he left university before finishing his degree. I am not trying to deny what art contributes to culture, but if a guy like Eddie can write amazing songs without even finishing high school, it is hard to equate the importance of art with the importance of art education.
There is no way for loan companies to determine exactly what a person will make before they give out the loan, but it is pretty easy to figure out on average what a person will be making based on what type of degree they will have, and using that as a guide for what loans are lower and higher risk.
What college did the members of Pearl Jam get their music degrees from?
Oh, I forgot to answer...the person loaning the money does.
If your dream is to get a masters in music, you should realize that a high-paying job may be difficult to find once you graduate, so the debt you incur may be more difficult to pay-off then it might be for someone who gets a more practical degree.
If you know that your debt service may be a problem, go to a cheaper school.
If you have your heart set on getting a Masters in English lit, realize that you may have a difficult time finding a snazzy job afterwards.
Its important to follow your dreams, but it is just as important to be practical in the pursuit.
And I know this is very judgmental of me but someone has to be a complete idiot to accumulate 70K worth of student loans to study music. What the fuck are you going to do with a degree in Music.
On top of that people entering University need to realize that no one really cares where you did your undergraduate. No one really tells you this when you are in high school. But when you think about it most careers where you need a degree most people just care that you have the degree and you are competent at the job. I don't think once since I have graduated where the school I went to made any difference in anything, and no one has ever asked me what my GPA was.
And if you are going for a career where you need a post-graduate degree, no one still cares where you got your bachelors. I mean when was the last time you cared about where your doctor or lawyer did their premed or prelaw. If you care at all you care about where they went to medschool or law school. I mean what is better premed at Harvard and your MD from Hollywood Upstairs Medical College or the opposite?
Plus a bunch of my friends have done masters degrees, and to get into grad schools even then most schools don't really care where you did your undergrad. As long as you have the degree and can do well on the required aptitude tests. It is a bonus if you can get grant funding.
Completely agree. When I started interviewing after college my friends who went to the School Of Visual Arts kept telling me that I would never find a job as a graphic designer because i didn't go to a design school. How wrong they where and I only paid 1/3 of what they did for tuition.
I think I would modify you statement to say everyone who really wants to go to college should be able to. I think a lot of times spots and funding are used up on people who don't really want to be at university but they either think they should, or have nothing better to do. I went to University in BC in the 1990's. Tuition was really cheap since there was like a 7 year tuition freeze. Except you had tons of people who I got the feeling were there to hang out and play hackey sack, or just take random classes. Now it bugged me since it is possible that those people were taking up spots from people who really wanted to go to university but couldn't get in or couldn't pay. Plus the people who were there to hang out were always the people who were either on student government (because they had the time to do it) or were the ones who complained the most about high tuition fees.
I know you're joking, but that's NOT what I was implying. I was saying that the students need to be responsible for what they are borrowing.
I have a doctorate in music, but I did NOT borrow a huge amount of money to go to school. My three degrees all together only left me with about $15,000 worth of debt. I had to work all through grad school but it was worth it to be relatively unencumbered afterwards.