Is the death of a drug addict a "tragedy"?
Foxwell
Posts: 142
Now I don’t want to sound callous, and I don’t necessarily want this discussion to be about Heath Ledger, but his death did resurrect a long standing debate I've had with friends: Is the death of a practicing drug addict a tragedy?
Now, let me start off by saying that I feel obliged to let it be known that I am a recovering addict and have woefully attended more funerals of lost lives than I care to count. I say this so that I’m not mistaken for a self-righteous chucklehead with some sort of moralistic agenda (trust me, they’re out there). Rather, this is a topic--drug addiction and recovery--that helps define who I am. Having divulged that, let me continue.
When I hear that a drug addict has overdosed, I feel awash with emotions…many of them conflicting. But I have to say, though I feel empathy for the addict and sadness for the family, “tragedy” isn’t the word that comes to mind. “Fait accompli” seems more appropriate.
Tragedy, as I understand it, is a horrific and usually deadly series of events that is brought about through unforeseen and uncontrollable circumstances. A child dying of Leukemia is tragic. Othello’s decline into madness is tragic in that he is unaware of Iago’s machinations. Conversely, a drug addict dying of a drug overdose seems sadly predictable.
Yet, time and time again, I hear media and mourners use the word “tragedy” to describe an addict’s death. Mourners, I can forgive, after all they are in emotional turbulence, but the media and historians should be more responsible.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that my instinct tells me that referring to the death of a drug addict as tragic is belittling the role of choice and self-determination in our own lives. It’s as though we’re saying of an addict’s death, “It was a tragedy, a wretched, heart-breaking, and unavoidable final chapter.” And I’ll be damned if I’ll accept “death by addiction” as unavoidable.
In The Poetics of Aristotle, the philosopher wrote of the tragic hero: “the protagonist will mistakenly bring about his own downfall—not because he is sinful or morally weak, but because he does not know enough.”
Even when I was at my most frail, my most deluded--saturated in vodka-- I knew I was killing myself. Most addicts I talk to will, on some level, admit to the same. I couldn’t claim that I didn’t “know enough” not to stop. Knowledge wasn’t the problem and therefore my addiction wasn’t tragic.
So, please...please... make some room so I may step down off my soap box…
I guess what I’d like to know from “The Pit” is this: What are your thoughts on tragedy as it relates to drug addiction. I feel as though, by romanticizing our troubles, society is making it easier for us addicts to walk a grim and moribund path.
But, to borrow a phrase from Dennis Miller, I could be wrong.
Now, let me start off by saying that I feel obliged to let it be known that I am a recovering addict and have woefully attended more funerals of lost lives than I care to count. I say this so that I’m not mistaken for a self-righteous chucklehead with some sort of moralistic agenda (trust me, they’re out there). Rather, this is a topic--drug addiction and recovery--that helps define who I am. Having divulged that, let me continue.
When I hear that a drug addict has overdosed, I feel awash with emotions…many of them conflicting. But I have to say, though I feel empathy for the addict and sadness for the family, “tragedy” isn’t the word that comes to mind. “Fait accompli” seems more appropriate.
Tragedy, as I understand it, is a horrific and usually deadly series of events that is brought about through unforeseen and uncontrollable circumstances. A child dying of Leukemia is tragic. Othello’s decline into madness is tragic in that he is unaware of Iago’s machinations. Conversely, a drug addict dying of a drug overdose seems sadly predictable.
Yet, time and time again, I hear media and mourners use the word “tragedy” to describe an addict’s death. Mourners, I can forgive, after all they are in emotional turbulence, but the media and historians should be more responsible.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that my instinct tells me that referring to the death of a drug addict as tragic is belittling the role of choice and self-determination in our own lives. It’s as though we’re saying of an addict’s death, “It was a tragedy, a wretched, heart-breaking, and unavoidable final chapter.” And I’ll be damned if I’ll accept “death by addiction” as unavoidable.
In The Poetics of Aristotle, the philosopher wrote of the tragic hero: “the protagonist will mistakenly bring about his own downfall—not because he is sinful or morally weak, but because he does not know enough.”
Even when I was at my most frail, my most deluded--saturated in vodka-- I knew I was killing myself. Most addicts I talk to will, on some level, admit to the same. I couldn’t claim that I didn’t “know enough” not to stop. Knowledge wasn’t the problem and therefore my addiction wasn’t tragic.
So, please...please... make some room so I may step down off my soap box…
I guess what I’d like to know from “The Pit” is this: What are your thoughts on tragedy as it relates to drug addiction. I feel as though, by romanticizing our troubles, society is making it easier for us addicts to walk a grim and moribund path.
But, to borrow a phrase from Dennis Miller, I could be wrong.
"In the depths of winter, I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer." -- Albert Camus
"He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that." -- John Stuart Mill
"Mongo just a pawn in game of life." -- Mongo
"He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that." -- John Stuart Mill
"Mongo just a pawn in game of life." -- Mongo
Post edited by Unknown User on
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I see what you're getting at and it's easy to be callous, being a compassionate human being is much more difficult and requires a lot more emotional investment. For me it all boils down to something that John Donne said a long time ago and it's a beautiful meditation on life and the human condition in my opinion.
"...All mankind is of one author and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated...No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main...Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." -John Donne-
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
When a daughter has to go on without their father... fucking tragic
Friends and family have to go on without thier friend and kin... fucking tragic
Get it?
YEP that's about it it's a tragedy no matter wich way anybody chooses to spin it into ,hell ELVIS was an abuser was that a tragedy off course it was ...
I know...I know...I thought twice before linking his name to this topic. So perhaps replace his name with John Belushi's, Chris Farley's, Billie Holiday's, Chet Baker's, George Best's, W.C Fields', Judy Garland's, Edgar Allen Poe's, Dee Dee Ramone's, Jim Morrison's, Basquiat's, Jack Kerouac's, Marilyn Monroe's...
Or choose one from your own list of acquaintances. I'll bet most of us know at least one person who has died of a drug overdose or alcohol related "complications."
If you're lucky enough to have avoided this hell on Earth, you can borrow one of mine: Zach, he died of a heroin overdose in an apartment in Hollywood.
The name of the addict wasn't important, and I apologize to anyone experiencing duress because I implied that Mr. Ledger was a drug addict.
"He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that." -- John Stuart Mill
"Mongo just a pawn in game of life." -- Mongo
'06 - London, Dublin, Reading
'07 - Katowice, Wembley, Dusseldorf, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
'09 - London, Manchester, London
'12 - Manchester, Manchester, Berlin, Stockholm, Copenhagen
still too early to know about his case.
And yes it's tragic to see young people die from "hard" illegal drugs as well.
Layne Staley never wanted to glorify his drug abuse and he have said he hated being a junkie but he just could not kick the habit. He was downright miserable for the last 5 years of his life.
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
I don't think it's that simple.
"He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that." -- John Stuart Mill
"Mongo just a pawn in game of life." -- Mongo
Hitler and the Holocaust was a tragedy! Everyone feels sorry for the victims but NOT Hitler and the Nazis.
Same thing with school shootings, it's tragic. And yes sometimes we remember the killers and murders more than the victims. It's sad, but true.
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
I don't think it's that simple.
I hate to play the "Hitler card", but you said "anyone."
So here goes, Hitler dying in the prime of his life...not tragic.
And let me be proactive in saying that I'm not equating Hitler to Heath Ledger.
I'm just saying that not all deaths are tragic. In fact, you could argue that no death is tragic, if death is in fact the logical conclusion of life.
"He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that." -- John Stuart Mill
"Mongo just a pawn in game of life." -- Mongo
I could also argue that you are being an idiot...
"not to compare Hitler and Heath... but I will" :rolleyes:
Now your argument is that not all deaths are tragic... I thought it was all drug overdoses are not tragic... which is it?
The reason why I edited my post (not quickly enough for you) was that my original post had more to do with semantics and the implication of the word tragedy. I feel that not all death is tragic.
When he said "when ANYONE dies in the prime of his life...its tragic", all I had to do was find one example to the contrary (I could have listed thousands) and I've proved his point illogical.
Perhaps my problem might be that I'm thinking too much with my head and not enough with my heart, but I still feel that words and how we use them are important. Important enough that they could save the life of an addict or two.
"He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that." -- John Stuart Mill
"Mongo just a pawn in game of life." -- Mongo
How are these mutually exclusive?
Drug overdoses are not tragic. (which was my original point)
A drug overdose is a death.
Therefore, not all deaths are tragic.
"He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that." -- John Stuart Mill
"Mongo just a pawn in game of life." -- Mongo
In relation to Heath, of course his death is tragic. He was a young successful actor who touched a lot of people's lives. His untimely death is very sad. He was not a drug addict but even if he was, it would be just as tragic.
My original point had to do with drug addiction and not merely drug related deaths.
If Mr. Ledger died because of an accidental overdose of prescribed pills, then, yes, it would fulfill anyone's definition of tragedy.
My point was that we addicts know that what we do to ourselves can kill us.
The key part of the definition of tragedy, as I see it, is KNOWLEDGE. If we know we're killing ourselves and we continue to do it, the quality of tragedy leaves the equation.
If Othello knew about Iago and still killed Desdemona, it wouldn't be a tragedy.
"He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that." -- John Stuart Mill
"Mongo just a pawn in game of life." -- Mongo
My feels on your theory is that, maybe your using some sort of a "reverse psychology" on drug addicts because you were able to recover and survive your addiction but those who didn't could not. You have to understand that we're all different people with different personality.
I'm 100% sure that the majority of junkies hate what they're doing, but if they don't have the will or the heart to kick the habit, it doesn't mean that their situation is NOT tragic. It's a tragedy that he/she is in that state.
Yes it is self-destruction but that's LIFE. We all do stupid shit, some are able to survive and some can't. I'm glad you kicked your bad habits but others don't have the self-will or the support to do so.
To me, whether you beat your addiction or get beat by it, it's still tragedy and I'm NOT gonna say "Oh he fucking deserved to die because it's his choice to be a junkie." No I'll say, "Damn, what a tragedy that he didn't beat his addiction"
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
Wow...thank you. I honestly and sincerely did not see it that way.
As I said, I have ambivalent feelings about drug addiction and its consequences.
This was exactly the sort of reply I was looking for. Despite all my posturing, I'll be the first to admit that I don't know all the answers to all the questions.
Thank you. You changed my mind and made my day.
"He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that." -- John Stuart Mill
"Mongo just a pawn in game of life." -- Mongo
I too place my own agenda forward first in various issues and theories. It's really hard to look at life in different views, especially one that not your own.
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
I guess first of all, let me say to you that it is an awesome wonderful life changing thing you did when you got clean. There is no doubt about it, at least from us who have done so as well, that this way of living, this demension of sobriety is a good one but its temptations while we are involved with the drug(s) of choice lead us to believe that sober people are "no fun", "tightasses" , boring, etc etc etc......fill in the blanks. I felt that way when I was using. They were so not in my world at all. So then being sober wasn't attractive to me. Then one day, followed by of course many days, the buzz didn't make feel good anymore; it made me feel weird and self conscous and while in the beginning of my use, I felt so comfortable and "cool" now as an adult I felt just like I wasn't really living even to the point where I seriously questioned what everyone else had in their lives that I didn't---why their lives could be good enough as it was, without needing to make a party over everything that occurred or didn't occur, you know?
So thank God that for some reason, some great reason, we both seperately, differently, under probably very different circumstances, decided we had to try our hardest to stop getting buzzed.
But the tragedy, for me to describe it to best answer your question would refer to the tragedy that is thought of when you look at a small child, so sweet and innocent, so full of promise of their future and then take ALL that innocense away, all that promise of a future and hand it over to addiction. That is where I would add tragedy in if I were to use that word.
and maybe the tragedy would also involve not everyone in their lives, but those people who partied with the addict fully knowing that this was a serious thing; not just playtime..........you know?
Together we will float like angels.........
In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
Both of these individuals, in my opinion, were extraordinary human beings who got mixed up in the very human activity of opioid abuse. They were no doubt missed sorely by those who knew them.
On the other hand, there are people in this world who society could easily do without. And sometimes it seems like the luck they've been afforded is that of which they are not the least bit deserving. That is what I would define as being tragic.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
for some reason this reminds me of the aversion I have to saying "congratulations" to someone when they get married or get pregnant, because they haven't really *done* anything. Yesterday my coworker told me he got into grad school and "congratulations" flew off my tongue, but I always have to force it when some kind engagement or pregnancy. But you have to say it because that's how "we" refer to these things. I don't know why your post made me think of this, it's only loosely related
A boat tragedy?
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
lmao.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.