Abortion ultrasound-viewing advances in S.C.

Options
1…1415171920…24

Comments

  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    audome25 wrote:
    the waiver was a joke, someone commented early on about the man not supporting, leaving abortion as the only alternative.

    and as far as abstinece goes its not somehting i readly practice, but i do find it interesting as a socitey the idea of not having sex if you aren't prepared for the possible outcome is completely out the window for the simple fact that people want to get laid and abortion is a presumed "easy" out.

    people really that dumb that their still having lots of unprotected sex?

    this is obvioulsy a guilt trip rule aimed at the few that would fall for it, and if someone was in the mental state where this would change their mind they were no where near sure or informed enough to be in the chair anyway.

    Well I did wonder! :) Although, I confess I did consider it. :) Just seemed far too complicated to police given that we are already needing simple solutions that all can follow. I always think about how you need a licence to drive a car, or register when you own a cat or a dog, but any idiot can have a baby.

    I don't know that people are dumb for having unprotected sex. Perhaps just uninformed or uneducated or caught up in the moment. It does seem to keep happening. I can't help wonder why the safe sex message doesn't get through or why it's not discussed as a standard before sex. I think all people should participate in making the safe sex message known to all who participate in sex or who might participate in sex.
    But I also know that not all pregnancies are caused because people have unprotected sex. AND I know that what you say and do in the heat of the moment can be very sobering in the cold light of reality. People have been known to change their minds regarding abortion when they discover that they are pregnant or have contributed to a pregnancy.

    I think that regardless of what the motivation was of the government that decreed that ultrasound be compulsory or what they are hoping to achieve, that we as free citizens should be very, very concerned and outraged at the nasty precedent and the ramifications that such a mandate may have for all of us.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Trau wrote:
    How is abortion constitutionally protected?
    Ask the seven Supreme Court justices who protected it. Sorry, but it's the law of the land.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • Trau
    Trau Posts: 188
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Easily -- the same way you would likely argue that a human is not a human from the moment its parents develop the individual sperm and egg.

    Not really. It would make more sense if people argued that human life begins before conception rather than some time after, however.
    A conceived child is dependent entirely on its mother's body, health and discretion. It is more a parasite than a human, and I mean parasite in a sense stripped of all negative connotations.

    It's nothing like a parasite, and to make that comparison is incredibly ignorant.
    Hehe...apparently you do, since you do that above.

    My distinction is not arbitrary.
    Anyway, all of us has that right.

    I disagree.
    You certainly could say that.

    Yes, and people would think you were insane. But that distinction is no different than what many pro-abortion people offer.
    In the shadow of the light from a black sun
    Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
    Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
    I'm freezing

    Are you afraid, afraid to die
    Don't be afraid, afraid to try
  • Trau
    Trau Posts: 188
    hippiemom wrote:
    Ask the seven Supreme Court justices who protected it. Sorry, but it's the law of the land.

    How did it become the law of the land? What justification did the Court use?
    In the shadow of the light from a black sun
    Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
    Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
    I'm freezing

    Are you afraid, afraid to die
    Don't be afraid, afraid to try
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Trau wrote:
    How did it become the law of the land? What justification did the Court use?
    http://www.tourolaw.edu/patch/Roe/
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Trau wrote:
    Not really. It would make more sense if people argued that human life begins before conception rather than some time after, however.

    Why? I mean, many abortion proponents define human life as a birthed life, or a life with a nervous system or along other defined lines. Similarly, many people used to and still consider masturbation or birth control an offense against human life based on pre-conception notions of human existence.
    It's nothing like a parasite, and to make that comparison is incredibly ignorant.

    It's almost exactly like a parasite. A parasite is something that survives only through symbiosis with a host. The only fundamental difference is that the parasite is the same species as the host here. Given a biological "choice" in specific situations, an unborn child will consume its host.
    My distinction is not arbitrary.

    Sure it is. You've picked your objective dividing line. I tend to agree with your chosen line, but you have to recognize it for what it is: a line in a continuous process containing many similar lines.
    Yes, and people would think you were insane. But that distinction is no different than what many pro-abortion people offer.

    You can view it as insane, if you'd like. It doesn't bother me. You can ignore the distinctions or group them all together if you'd like. But it is not "insane" to define human existence and simply draw both differential lines between other species and developmental lines of progression. We do this all the time in other topics, and discussions on abortion and more grisly topics are not immune from those differentiations.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Trau wrote:
    Not really. It would make more sense if people argued that human life begins before conception rather than some time after, however.

    It's nothing like a parasite, and to make that comparison is incredibly ignorant.

    My distinction is not arbitrary.

    I disagree.

    Yes, and people would think you were insane. But that distinction is no different than what many pro-abortion people offer.

    look out people! we've got another socrates on our hands here. did you see the way he demolished ffg's argument? man, i've never seen logic or evidence so compelling before... "no it isnt, it's not like that, it's not arbitrary, i disagree, and you're insane. why? becos i happen to think so."

    good god man, please tell me you're going to college with thinking skills like that!
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Trau wrote:
    It's nothing like a parasite, and to make that comparison is incredibly ignorant.

    a developing embryo/ foetus can not grow or survive independently of its mother. it gives nothing back in return for this nourishment. in this way, yes, it is parasitic. .
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Trau
    Trau Posts: 188
    hippiemom wrote:
    http://www.tourolaw.edu/patch/Roe/

    I know why they ruled the way they did. I want you to tell me why they did.
    In the shadow of the light from a black sun
    Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
    Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
    I'm freezing

    Are you afraid, afraid to die
    Don't be afraid, afraid to try
  • Trau
    Trau Posts: 188
    farfromglorified wrote:
    It's almost exactly like a parasite. A parasite is something that survives only through symbiosis with a host.

    There is a lot more to parasitism than that.

    The only fundamental difference is that the parasite is the same species as the host here.

    It's unfortunate that that is the only important difference you are able to discern between prenatal development and parasitism.
    Sure it is. You've picked your objective dividing line. I tend to agree with your chosen line, but you have to recognize it for what it is: a line in a continuous process containing many similar lines.

    Actually, no. Sperm and eggs will not combine on their own; it takes sexual intercourse for that to happen. The process from conception to birth is automatic.


    You can view it as insane, if you'd like. It doesn't bother me. You can ignore the distinctions or group them all together if you'd like. But it is not "insane" to define human existence and simply draw both differential lines between other species and developmental lines of progression. We do this all the time in other topics, and discussions on abortion and more grisly topics are not immune from those differentiations.

    People are using arbitrary milestones when they should give nature the benefit of the doubt. Using your logic, it is perfectly acceptable to conclude that a three year old child is not a human being, and can therefore be euthanized if someone decides that his or her life will be filled with suffering.
    In the shadow of the light from a black sun
    Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
    Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
    I'm freezing

    Are you afraid, afraid to die
    Don't be afraid, afraid to try
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Trau wrote:
    I know why they ruled the way they did. I want you to tell me why they did.

    Why?
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Trau
    Trau Posts: 188
    catefrances wrote:
    a developing embryo/ foetus can not grow or survive independently of its mother. it gives nothing back in return for this nourishment. in this way, yes, it is parasitic. .

    No, it isn't. Parasitism isn't as simple as taking nourishment without return.
    In the shadow of the light from a black sun
    Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
    Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
    I'm freezing

    Are you afraid, afraid to die
    Don't be afraid, afraid to try
  • Trau
    Trau Posts: 188
    Jeanie wrote:
    Why?

    I want her to defend her claim that abortion is constitutionally protected. It doesn't seem like she knows why she believes that it is.

    Simply because the Supreme Court has ruled a particular way does not mean that a precedent is justified. See Plessy v. Ferguson.
    In the shadow of the light from a black sun
    Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
    Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
    I'm freezing

    Are you afraid, afraid to die
    Don't be afraid, afraid to try
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Trau wrote:
    No, it isn't. Parasitism isn't as simple as taking nourishment without return.

    sure it is. that's what makes things parasitic.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Trau wrote:
    I want her to defend her claim that abortion is constitutionally protected. It doesn't seem like she knows why she believes that it is.

    Simply because the Supreme Court has ruled a particular way does not mean that a precedent is justified. See Plessy v. Ferguson.

    To be honest I can't be bothered. There's just something about the wording of your posts that I find rude and unpleasant. It may not be your intention but that's how it's coming across to me. And frankly it seems that should I go to all the trouble of reading this link, you'll only come back with a whole lot more Spanish Inquistion. I notice you never bothered to comment on any of the further reading I provided. AND you seem to continually want to make this whole thread about you getting your views on abortion across when clearly the thread is about the state decreeing mandatory medical procedures.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Trau
    Trau Posts: 188
    catefrances wrote:
    sure it is. that's what makes things parasitic.

    It's actually not.
    In the shadow of the light from a black sun
    Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
    Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
    I'm freezing

    Are you afraid, afraid to die
    Don't be afraid, afraid to try
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Trau wrote:
    It's actually not.

    then please trau share your wealth of knowledge with us all. you ask a lot of questions and challenge our views, so please tell me what your definition of parasitic is.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Trau
    Trau Posts: 188
    catefrances wrote:
    then please trau share your wealth of knowledge with us all. you ask a lot of questions and challenge our views, so please tell me what your definition of parasitic is.

    "A parasite is an organism that associates with the host in a negative, unhealthy and nonessential (nonessential to the host) manner which will often damage the host and detrimentally affect the procreative capacity of the host (and species).

    A human embryo or fetus is a human being that associates with the mother in a positive,healthful essential manner necessary for the procreation of the species."

    http://www.l4l.org/library/notparas.html
    In the shadow of the light from a black sun
    Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
    Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
    I'm freezing

    Are you afraid, afraid to die
    Don't be afraid, afraid to try
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Trau wrote:
    "A parasite is an organism that associates with the host in a negative, unhealthy and nonessential (nonessential to the host) manner which will often damage the host and detrimentally affect the procreative capacity of the host (and species).

    A human embryo or fetus is a human being that associates with the mother in a positive,healthful essential manner necessary for the procreation of the species."

    http://www.l4l.org/library/notparas.html

    using the definition you provided i'd like to point out that the human embryo does associate with its host in a non essential manner to that host. a mother recieves nothing from the embryo/foetus. the relationship is all one sided essentially for the survival of the unborn. as a woman i can live without an embyro growing inside me, but it can not live without me. that's what i was saying. an embryo's existence is parasitic by nature.
    but all we are basically doing is debating semantics and as a rule that often gets no one anywhere.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Trau
    Trau Posts: 188
    Procreation benefits all of humanity.
    In the shadow of the light from a black sun
    Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
    Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
    I'm freezing

    Are you afraid, afraid to die
    Don't be afraid, afraid to try

Categories