Has Blackwater USA become the New and Improved SS???

24

Comments

  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    gue_barium wrote:
    Blackwater, in concert with whichever corporation they have contracted out to.

    edit: And I have to disagree with you that the general population of Iraqi's don't know the difference between the mercenaries and the government armies.

    Also, without the American-written laws in place over there, it is unlikely Blackwater could be serving in the "unaccountable" capacity that they do. So, in that sense, they are given permission by our government. Also, many of the corporations in Iraq are under government contract, so again, in that sense, they are a government operative.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,252
    gue_barium wrote:
    Blackwater, in concert with whichever corporation they have contracted out to.

    edit: And I have to disagree with you that the general population of Iraqi's don't know the difference between the mercenaries and the government armies.
    AMY GOODMAN: Jeremy, can you explain Erik Prince's ties to the Republican Party?

    JEREMY SCAHILL: Well, it’s interesting, because the Republicans on the committee, not just during this hearing, but also in the February hearing when Blackwater’s lawyer testified, tried to sort of say that this was a smear campaign against Blackwater, because some of the company's executives are close to the Republican Party. And they’ve attempted to say that Blackwater is a nonpartisan operation. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    Erik Prince, the founder of Blackwater, comes from a powerhouse conservative Republican family in Michigan. His father was a major bankroller, not only of the Republican Revolution of 1994, but also a major funder of several of the key groups that make up the core of the radical religious right. His dad gave the seed money to Gary Bauer to start the Family Research Council. Erik Prince was an early intern in the first team of interns that Gary Bauer took on. Gary Bauer, also a signer of the Project for a New American Century, the neoconservative agenda adopted by the White House. Also, they were very close to James Dobson and his Focus on the Family prayer warrior network.

    Erik Prince himself has given several hundred thousand dollars to Republican campaign causes, including nearly $200,000 to the Republican National Committee. He also has continued his family tradition of bankrolling radical rightwing religious groups. Erik Prince also has a long history of being involved with the Republican Party. He was an early intern at George H.W. Bush’s White House. And that’s just talking about Erik Prince.

    You can go down the line of other Blackwater executives that are not only connected to the Republican Party and the conservative establishment in this country, but also to the current Bush administration, people like J. Cofer Black, the former head of Counterterrorism at the CIA; Joseph Schmitz, the former Inspector General at the Pentagon. The original lawyer for the company dealing with that Fallujah lawsuit we talked about was none other than Fred Fielding, who’s now Bush’s White House counsel. More recently, their lawyer has been Ken Starr.

    In fact, Erik Prince has actually given money to Green Party candidates in an attempt to defeat Democratic candidates in elections against Republicans. So, very clearly, Erik Prince is an ideological foot soldier, not only for the administration, but for the Republican Party in general.

    AMY GOODMAN: Well, let's go to this issue of Erik Prince’s ties to the Republican Party, which came up only once in Tuesday’s hearing during questioning by California Republican Darrell Issa.

    REP. DARRELL ISSA: Let's just go to one area that I think hasn’t been discussed, and others might not discuss it. Is your sister's name Betsy DeVos?

    ERIK PRINCE: DeVos.

    REP. DARRELL ISSA: Yes. Is that your sister?

    ERIK PRINCE: Yes, it is.

    REP. DARRELL ISSA: And is she -- was she a former Michigan Republican Party chairwoman?

    ERIK PRINCE: Yes, she was.

    REP. DARRELL ISSA: And was she a Pioneer for Bush?

    ERIK PRINCE: I don’t know. Could be.

    REP. DARRELL ISSA: Was she a large contributor to President Bush?

    ERIK PRINCE: They probably were.

    REP. DARRELL ISSA: And raised a lot of money for President Bush?

    ERIK PRINCE: Could easily be.

    REP. DARRELL ISSA: Went to the Republican conventions in 2000 and 2004?

    ERIK PRINCE: I would imagine they did, yes.

    REP. DARRELL ISSA: Isn’t it true that your family, at least that part of the family, are very well-known Republicans?

    ERIK PRINCE: Yes.

    REP. DARRELL ISSA: Wouldn’t it be fair to say that your company is easily identified as a Republican-leaning company and, in fact, the Amway Company somewhat so because of family members there? You don’t have to speculate overly, but isn't that generally something you understand?

    ERIK PRINCE: Blackwater is not a partisan company. We haven’t done any -- you know, we execute the mission given us, whether it’s training Navy sailors or protecting State Department personnel. Yes, I have given individual political contributions. I’ve done that since college, and I did it when I was an active-duty member of the Armed Services, and I’ll probably continue doing that forward. I don’t give that -- I didn’t give up that right when I became a defense contractor.

    REP. DARRELL ISSA: Right. OK, Mr. Chairman --

    REP. HENRY WAXMAN: Gentleman’s time is expired.

    REP. DARRELL ISSA: Just to finish the thought, like we did on the other side of the aisle, I think you're exactly right, that in fact, well, being identified as partisan Republican, in fact, your company appears to have done what all companies do, which is, in fact, operate to do the job they're doing in a nonpartisan way. And I would hope that this committee and the public takes note that labeling some company as Republican-oriented because of family members is inappropriate, and I would hope that we not do it again. And I yield back.


    Yes this is the corporation that they're contracted out to The Republican Coporation Party. He and his wealthy family gives hundreds of thousands to this party and in return they get a little over 600 milliion dollar contract in Iraq to do whatever the RCP tells them to do.

    They'll be in yours and mine backyard soon with as much clout as they've been given.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,252
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • lgt
    lgt Posts: 720
    gue_barium wrote:
    The guy in the forgound with the wifebeater on is not a GI.


    non-GI


    non-GI


    GI


    GI


    GI


    You tell me... which ones are Blackwater and which ones are U.S?
    [/quote]

    How do you make the distinction? Not being sarcastic - I genuinely would like to know.

    Because they just look like soldiers to me, so I would assume to the general Iraqi population and to other non-trained eyes {what Cosmo argued, I believe}.
  • I believe on average they get paid $1,222 per day.

    Blackwater....modern day SS...given free reign?...yes most definitely.

    Gitmo...modern day SS concentration camp?....again yes.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    I believe on average they get paid $1,222 per day.

    Blackwater....modern day SS...given free reign?...yes most definitely.

    Gitmo...modern day SS concentration camp?....again yes.


    If you are going to use "Blackwater is the SS" analogy than what is their "Final Solution" that they swear alliance to? As near as I can tell Blackwater guys are in it for the cash, which is something that is a lot easier to control than an idea that you are part of a master race.

    If Gitmo is a concentration camp, where are the gas chambers and cremation furnaces?

    I am not trying to defend Blackwater or Gitmo, it is just when people exaggerate like this and compare things to the Nazis it doesn’t give people a real idea of what is going on.
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    If you are going to use "Blackwater is the SS" analogy than what is their "Final Solution" that they swear alliance to? As near as I can tell Blackwater guys are in it for the cash, which is something that is a lot easier to control than an idea that you are part of a master race.

    If Gitmo is a concentration camp, where are the gas chambers and cremation furnaces?

    I am not trying to defend Blackwater or Gitmo, it is just when people exaggerate like this and compare things to the Nazis it doesn’t give people a real idea of what is going on.

    side question: if you are being detained ... would you rather get gassed or sit in solitary confinement for 5 years?
  • If you are going to use "Blackwater is the SS" analogy than what is their "Final Solution" that they swear alliance to? As near as I can tell Blackwater guys are in it for the cash, which is something that is a lot easier to control than an idea that you are part of a master race.

    If Gitmo is a concentration camp, where are the gas chambers and cremation furnaces?

    I am not trying to defend Blackwater or Gitmo, it is just when people exaggerate like this and compare things to the Nazis it doesn’t give people a real idea of what is going on.

    The eradication of an citizens that oppose the US. The only difference is the approach, and that is greying out over time as well, it's modernized now so people can stomach it in bits and pieces.

    A duck is a duck, no mater which side of the pond it swims on.

    Shoot to kill....it's all the same.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    polaris wrote:
    side question: if you are being detained ... would you rather get gassed or sit in solitary confinement for 5 years?


    I think the question should be more like would you rather go to a concentration camp and be put to work doing back breaking labour, with little or no food, be subjected so cruel and almost inhuman scientific experiments, live in an overcrowded shack with hundreds of other people with zero sanitary services and on top of all of that be eventually sent to the gas chamber, or would you rather sit in solitary for 5 years. Personally I would take the solitary, especially since there might be a chance that you may get released. Until the concentration camps were librated I don’t think many people were released from them.

    The thing is if someone is going to say that Blackwater is the SS or Gitmo is a concentration camp, at least draw some comparisons to back up your argument. Otherwise people are just going to thing you are immensely over exaggerating and totally not take any of your points seriously.
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    I think the question should be more like would you rather go to a concentration camp and be put to work doing back breaking labour, with little or no food, be subjected so cruel and almost inhuman scientific experiments, live in an overcrowded shack with hundreds of other people with zero sanitary services and on top of all of that be eventually sent to the gas chamber, or would you rather sit in solitary for 5 years. Personally I would take the solitary, especially since there might be a chance that you may get released. Until the concentration camps were librated I don’t think many people were released from them.

    The thing is if someone is going to say that Blackwater is the SS or Gitmo is a concentration camp, at least draw some comparisons to back up your argument. Otherwise people are just going to thing you are immensely over exaggerating and totally not take any of your points seriously.

    i don't actually think the two are that similar for various reasons - i think the analogy is meant to kind of jolt us into realiziing that there are whole armies out there that basically operate independently from any law to the people that pay the biggest amount of money ...

    this is scary and ultimately - people should be concerned about it ...

    as far as your options - i would take option 1 ... i don't mind the back breaking work - at least i could keep my mind off things ... and i would gamble on the war ending before getting released from gitmo ... i wouldn't last 30 days in solitary confinement let alone 5 years ... i would gladly choose death ...
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    gue_barium wrote:
    The guy in the forgound with the wifebeater on is not a GI.
    Wrong. The soldier is a Special Ops operative in Afghanistan.
    gue_barium wrote:
    non-GI
    Correct.
    gue_barium wrote:
    non-GI
    Wrong. The Soldier is attached to a Maintanance detail in the Green Zone in Iraq.
    gue_barium wrote:
    GI
    Correct.
    gue_barium wrote:
    GI
    Wrong. The soldiers are Iraqi Security Forces.
    gue_barium wrote:
    GI
    Correct.

    That's 3 out of 6.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    If you are going to use "Blackwater is the SS" analogy than what is their "Final Solution" that they swear alliance to? As near as I can tell Blackwater guys are in it for the cash, which is something that is a lot easier to control than an idea that you are part of a master race.

    If Gitmo is a concentration camp, where are the gas chambers and cremation furnaces?

    I am not trying to defend Blackwater or Gitmo, it is just when people exaggerate like this and compare things to the Nazis it doesn’t give people a real idea of what is going on.
    ...
    I agree with you... a comparison to the Nazis is not close.
    However, it is possible to compare Guantanamo Bay, Cuba and the tactics used there to the former Soviet Union's gulags for dissidents.
    As for Blackwater... Their alligence is to money. Give them enough money and they'll work as body guards for Bin Laden.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Cosmo wrote:
    Wrong. The soldier is a Special Ops operative in Afghanistan.


    Correct.


    Wrong. The Soldier is attached to a Maintanance detail in the Green Zone in Iraq.


    Correct.


    Wrong. The soldiers are Iraqi Security Forces.


    Correct.

    That's 3 out of 6.

    So we can tell the real from the fake HALF the time!
    That's a good start!

    :rolleyes:
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    So we can tell the real from the fake HALF the time!
    That's a good start!

    :rolleyes:
    ...
    Here are Blackwater Employees:
    http://farm1.static.flickr.com/102/311935549_2368842206.jpg?v=0

    http://farm1.static.flickr.com/108/311925793_02d0e05516.jpg?v=0

    http://farm1.static.flickr.com/105/311935551_3e62029756.jpg?v=0
    ...
    I don't know if I could tell the difference if they were Blackwater or U.S. Military... especially is I were under fire from them.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • I've heard that you have to be hung like a porn star, or modified via plastic surgery methods just to be considered for an interview into BW.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • MrSmith wrote:


    Chicken fried Condi!
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    polaris wrote:
    i don't actually think the two are that similar for various reasons - i think the analogy is meant to kind of jolt us into realiziing that there are whole armies out there that basically operate independently from any law to the people that pay the biggest amount of money ...

    this is scary and ultimately - people should be concerned about it ...

    as far as your options - i would take option 1 ... i don't mind the back breaking work - at least i could keep my mind off things ... and i would gamble on the war ending before getting released from gitmo ... i wouldn't last 30 days in solitary confinement let alone 5 years ... i would gladly choose death ...

    The problem with analogies like that is when they become so over the top people hear them and automatically write off the person saying. It would be like saying George Bush=Darth Vader. Once you have made that ridiculous exaggeration, how are people going to take the rest of the facts after that seriously.