Clinton and Obama

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  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    hippiemom wrote:
    It's a democracy and the majority of Americans don't want upheaval. They're uncomfortable with drastic changes. I'm an idealist too, but we're not a majority and probably never will be. Incremental change is what we get because it's what the majority wants. It's far from my ideal scenario, but I'll take progress in the right direction over the regression we've had for the past 6 1/2 years.

    EDIT: Holy shit, that was my 10,000 post :eek:

    I believe people want drastic changes and are overwhelmingly unhappy with the way things are but are waaay too apathetic about it ever happening so they settle. I think we can have whatever we are bold enough to go for. Yep, I'm a dreamer and proud! :D


    Holy shit indeed! The 10,000 club and you spent it on little old me. ;)
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    hippiemom wrote:
    It's a democracy and the majority of Americans don't want upheaval. They're uncomfortable with drastic changes. I'm an idealist too, but we're not a majority and probably never will be. Incremental change is what we get because it's what the majority wants. It's far from my ideal scenario, but I'll take progress in the right direction over the regression we've had for the past 6 1/2 years.

    EDIT: Holy shit, that was my 10,000 post :eek:

    I think we've learned to become comfortable since 1900, and even moreso since 1931, and even moreso since 1946...

    congrats...10, 0000 hippiemom!!!
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    whispering hands wrote:
    he he AMERICA secretly LOVES me!!!!!YAYA!!! sorry as a hippie I had to comment!!

    Go right ahead, we love you!!!! :D
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    hippiemom wrote:
    EDIT: Holy shit, that was my 10,000 post :eek:

    u should have made a special one up ... some insightful words of wisdom ... maybe along with a song ... that kind of thing ... ;)
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    polaris wrote:
    u should have made a special one up ... some insightful words of wisdom ... maybe along with a song ... that kind of thing ... ;)
    I was thinking of doing a special post .... I don't know about insightful wisdom, but I'm pretty sure I could at least muster up a few smart-ass remarks. I noticed the other day that I was at 9,950 and I was trying to come up with something good, then the big 10,000 sort of snuck up on me, didn't realize until it was too late.

    Ah well ... 15,000 is only a year or two away, right?
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    hippiemom wrote:
    I was thinking of doing a special post .... I don't know about insightful wisdom, but I'm pretty sure I could at least muster up a few smart-ass remarks. I noticed the other day that I was at 9,950 and I was trying to come up with something good, then the big 10,000 sort of snuck up on me, didn't realize until it was too late.

    Ah well ... 15,000 is only a year or two away, right?

    ha! ... i say do a "i'm at 5 digit post count post" ...
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    hippiemom wrote:
    It's a democracy and the majority of Americans don't want upheaval. They're uncomfortable with drastic changes. I'm an idealist too, but we're not a majority and probably never will be. Incremental change is what we get because it's what the majority wants. It's far from my ideal scenario, but I'll take progress in the right direction over the regression we've had for the past 6 1/2 years.

    EDIT: Holy shit, that was my 10,000 post :eek:

    this is where i'm at. although i also think that not only are people uncomfortable with sudden drastic change, but with the health care system--it's just not possible to have that ginormous of a sudden, drastic change. it's not realistic even though it may be desirable for some.

    and like you, i must go with some progress instead of more regression. and i also am not sure why people expect candidates' platforms polished and out there. they're organizing now--we have a year and a half to go. plenty of time to hear more about the details of candidates' plans.

    and, congratulations! :)
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • Milhouse VanHouten
    Milhouse VanHouten Posts: 755
    VictoryGin wrote:
    and like you, i must go with some progress instead of more regression. and i also am not sure why people expect candidates' platforms polished and out there. they're organizing now--we have a year and a half to go. plenty of time to hear more about the details of candidates' plans.

    and, congratulations! :)

    agreed. the policy speeches are not too far away for all of the candidates, i'm sure. it seems we're still in the "getting to know you" period, which is probably being extended as a result of the extension of the primary season. 18 months is a loooong time. i guess we'll have to settle for empty charisma and inspiring rhetoric for now...

    so ny is getting on board with the super duper tuesday thing, too?
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    VictoryGin wrote:
    this is where i'm at. although i also think that not only are people uncomfortable with sudden drastic change, but with the health care system--it's just not possible to have that ginormous of a sudden, drastic change. it's not realistic even though it may be desirable for some.

    and like you, i must go with some progress instead of more regression. and i also am not sure why people expect candidates' platforms polished and out there. they're organizing now--we have a year and a half to go. plenty of time to hear more about the details of candidates' plans.

    and, congratulations! :)
    I agree, it's not really possible to change it to what I'd like to have all at once. I don't know how many people work in the health insurance industry, but I know it's a huge number, and you can't just put 95% of them out of work overnight. You can't make the millions of shares of insurance company stock virtually worthless overnight. There are other considerations too, those are just the first two to occur to me.

    I'm not by nature a patient person and I'd really like to live to see some of the changes I've been pushing for, but I have to be realistic. I agree with most of the Kucinich platform, plus I've met the guy and I like him and I think he is a genuinely good person, but I've seen what happens when an idealist is the executive. He had fabulous ideas for Cleveland when he was mayor and he tried to force them through and it was a disaster ... he wanted too much too soon and the people just weren't ready for it. If he'd been more patient and played the game a bit he could have really accomplished something. As it was, he barely avoided being recalled (by something like 200 votes) and lost badly in his re-election bid. The world needs poets and dreamers and idealists, I'm just not so sure we need them in the White House.

    I don't know enough about Obama yet to say whether I could support him, but my mind is open toward him at the moment. I've never been a fan of the Clintons and really don't want to see Hillary as the nominee. I wish there was a real chance for Dennis to do the things he says he'd do as president, but he'd get nowhere with Congress and I think his presidency would go about as well as his term as mayor did.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    +-
    hippiemom wrote:
    I agree with you that the well-being of the insurance companies should not be our primary concern. I take a backseat to no one in my dislike of insurance companies, and I think that in the ideal system they would not exist. They serve no particular function except to add a layer of paper-shufflers that need to be paid, a layer of stockholders that need to be paid, thereby increasing costs while doing nothing to increase health. Kucinich is the only candidate calling for a system that doesn't involve them at all, and I'm very sympathetic towards his view. It is absolutely the sort of system I think we should have.

    On the other hand, I am a realist. We may eventually have a system that does not involve for-profit companies, but we're not going to have it any time soon. Americans are not going to support a wholesale overhaul of the entire system, and if they did begin to show signs of supporting one, the insurers would be running ads around the clock portraying a single-payer system as a disaster of biblical proportions, and a good number of people would be frightened enough by this to back off in their support. I think that Clinton and Obama are pragmatists ... they may or may not, in their heart of hearts, want single-payer health care, but they know that it's not possible to have it right now. We do have to settle for gradual moves in that direction, it's the only hope of ever getting there at all.

    I know you don't like it, I don't like it myself, but that's the reality of the American political system.


    mmm..perhaps, but the way i see it is i don't want to waste my time on the avg run of the mill candidate we are used to. maybe when he has actual stands he can clearly define i will rethink my position on him, but as of right now, really...what stand are ppl behind him on? if he doesn't clearly say 'this is how i'm gonna do it' what is there to support? his smile?

    ppl aren't 'ready' for a lot of shit that is pushed through our government and paid for by our tax money, that doesn't stop it from happening and ppl going on their merry ways


    "Americans are not going to support a wholesale overhaul of the entire system, and if they did begin to show signs of supporting one, the insurers would be running ads around the clock portraying a single-payer system as a disaster of biblical proportions, and a good number of people would be frightened enough by this to back off in their support. "

    so...we better not b/c they would push too much propaganda if ppl supported it...? i think if it was done effectively the ppl would overwhelming support it, it could be done, there is plenty of waste that could be trimmed to pay for this. the bottom line is it isn't done because of profit...why should i give in on what i think is a good idea b/c a lot of bs and lies will be spread by those protecting their profits and their bought and paid for reps in our government .... it's exactly this kind of attitude that keeps in this corrupt system of false promises, hell, we even know they are making false promises and yet we keep giving in and ensuring there's mainly R's and D's keeping power, 2 parties, sometimes 1 line overall...i'm going to use my vote for the person who best represents my beliefs, not the most electable, i could care less if i have the bragging right of being on the winning team for 4 or so years, i'm not gonna waste it on the ususal mediocracy
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    El_Kabong wrote:
    +-


    mmm..perhaps, but the way i see it is i don't want to waste my time on the avg run of the mill candidate we are used to. maybe when he has actual stands he can clearly define i will rethink my position on him, but as of right now, really...what stand are ppl behind him on? if he doesn't clearly say 'this is how i'm gonna do it' what is there to support? his smile?

    ppl aren't 'ready' for a lot of shit that is pushed through our government and paid for by our tax money, that doesn't stop it from happening and ppl going on their merry ways


    "Americans are not going to support a wholesale overhaul of the entire system, and if they did begin to show signs of supporting one, the insurers would be running ads around the clock portraying a single-payer system as a disaster of biblical proportions, and a good number of people would be frightened enough by this to back off in their support. "

    so...we better not b/c they would push too much propaganda if ppl supported it...? i think if it was done effectively the ppl would overwhelming support it, it could be done, there is plenty of waste that could be trimmed to pay for this. the bottom line is it isn't done because of profit...why should i give in on what i think is a good idea b/c a lot of bs and lies will be spread by those protecting their profits and their bought and paid for reps in our government .... it's exactly this kind of attitude that keeps in this corrupt system of false promises, hell, we even know they are making false promises and yet we keep giving in and ensuring there's mainly R's and D's keeping power, 2 parties, sometimes 1 line overall...i'm going to use my vote for the person who best represents my beliefs, not the most electable, i could care less if i have the bragging right of being on the winning team for 4 or so years, i'm not gonna waste it on the ususal mediocracy

    This is a struggle for the soul of the Democratic Party, which in too many cases has become so corporate and identified with corporate interests that you can't tell the difference between Democrats and Republicans. ~Dennis Kucinich


    I love this man!
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde

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