Authorities investigate Moore on Cuba

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Because of the effects they produce.

What effects are those?

my2hands wrote:

dude, do you ever give a straight answer? taxes are not comparable to murder. poor people and rich people need infrastructure.

Sigh...

You said that taxes "come about of need". Taxes do come about because of need. So, are you implying that taxes are somehow justified or morally right because they "come about of need"? Or, do you believe the situation to be more complex with other factors involved? If so, what are those factors?

your theory of taxation is pure bullshit unless you can tell me how society would function efficiently without government collecting taxes and using them for public causes.

I already told you how society would function efficiently without government collecting taxes and using them for public causes. Are you actually asking me "how will poor people function efficiently without government collecting taxes and using them for public causes"?

your only answer was if they can afford it? next time someone burglarizes your house i bet you dont complain about your taxes when you call the police and they help protect your ass whether you can afford it or not.

I willingly accept your proposal. I will forgo police protection and not complain to the police when someone burglarizes a tenth of the value from my home what you would have charged me for your police "protection".

farfromglorified wrote:

Ok. Then why did you bring it up?

Money is not a concept. Getting ahead is not a concept. Spending 25 years paying for a house to call your own is a concept. And what a sad concept it is.

mammasan wrote:

Where else are you going to find the revenue for military spending or public works if not through taxes. If you can provide one feasible and realistic example i'll eat my words and shut up.

How much money did you spend today? What did you spend it on? Why did you spend it?

The answer to your original question in found in your answers to these. People will pay for what they value. If you are asking me where you're going to get $500B per year to fund your military, the only answer is taxation. However, if you are asking me where you will find the exact amount of money required to build the army that the citizenry actually values, the answer is found in exchange.

I understand that anywhere that value is possible revenue is possible, but answer me this. A private compant decides that it will pay for all road maintanence in the state of New Jersey. This would cost the company millions of dollars per year. How do they make a profit or even end up even without charging tolls on every highway.

Are you asking me how a corporation or any other entity would be able to profit from giving away all their labor? The answer is they can't, unless of course giving it away somehow creates some kind of other value they can capitalize on. But if you're asking me if I have a problem with toll roads, my answer there would be "I don't".

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

He posted them

Ok. Why do the things he has posted concern him, aside from the fact they are "under reported"?

farfromglorified wrote:

How much money did you spend today? What did you spend it on? Why did you spend it?

The answer to your original question in found in your answers to these. People will pay for what they value. If you are asking me where you're going to get $500B per year to fund your military, the only answer is taxation. However, if you are asking me where you will find the exact amount of money required to build the army that the citizenry actually values, the answer is found in exchange.



Are you asking me how a corporation or any other entity would be able to profit from giving away all their labor? The answer is they can't, unless of course giving it away somehow creates some kind of other value they can capitalize on. But if you're asking me if I have a problem with toll roads, my answer there would be "I don't".

No I'm not talking about a 500 billion dollar military budget. I'm talking about a military the size that citizenry actually values. This exchange you speak of what would it be?

Second. Ok the roads was a bad example because obviously tolls would make sense and generate revenue for the mainanence. What about Police and Fire departments?

DMBlover wrote:

Don't forget education.

Education can be accomplished without taxes. You have private schools and charter schools, most of which out preform public schools. There is also home schooling.

farfromglorified wrote:

Define exchange.

Good criminy, why? The American citizenry pays Federal taxes in exchange for military protection. Where's the confusion? If you want to go off on a tangent about Iraq, sure, I can see your point, but the "mistake" that is Iraq isn't something we can run away and hide from simply because our elected executives are criminals.

farfromglorified wrote:

It would be the willful purchase, by the citizenry, of an army built by the government or by any entity they choose.



You cannot charge tolls for Police and Fire departments? You cannot support police and fire departement by any means other than taxation?

Let's see what this citizen army does to protect U.S. interests around the world. Private fire department? Let's see how happy you are with that when I dont pay them and my house burns down (not your care, I know) but then my fire causes your house to burn down. I wont pay you anything for your loss and since there are no courts from taxation (private courts, um...no) then you might try to take payment from me with your privately financed police force. Problem is my extended family takes exception to this and annialate your private police force.

mammasan wrote:

But why would I want to pay for someone else's police and fire department. I pay the tolls because I am using that road and benefit from it being properly maintained. Why would I want to pay even higher tolls just to pay for some other twon's police and fire department. I will pay for those departments in the town/city I live and work in, but wouldn't be too happy if I had to front the bill for someone else. What about people who don't drive, they then get to benefit from these services free of charge.

The willfull purchase of the citizenry. So we the people would directly purchase supplies, uniforms, equipment for the military.

That's it exactly. This is the same concept as paying taxes just disguised as freewill. New boss same as the old boss. Not caslling it a "tax" just makes some people feel better.