American missile shield in Poland

2

Comments

  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    puremagic wrote:
    Really, because I thought the discussion was in relation to the topic of the thread and totally on point in replying to you directly. I'll try to remember that you're a one liner and keep it simple.

    you babbled on about something about everyone knowing what nukes are. made no sense
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    spyguy wrote:
    you babbled on about something about everyone knowing what nukes are. made no sense

    Go figure, some people babble and some people see only what they want to see. Ok, maybe one liners aren't so bad.


    On the other hand, that's not my style, this is.

    Why did you ask me if I knew what nukes were? The point made was that everyone knows what nukes are. The more important point was that the U.S. does not face a nuclear threat from Iran or North Korea, so why is that we are pushing this missiles defense system that is creating conflicts and endangering European countries.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    puremagic wrote:
    Why did you ask me if I knew what nukes were?

    do you know what a rhetorical question is? heres a hint. that is one.
    puremagic wrote:
    The point made was that everyone knows what nukes are. The more important point was that the U.S. does not face a nuclear threat from Iran or North Korea, so why is that we are pushing this missiles defense system that is creating conflicts and endangering European countries.

    the US government does feel that there is a threat from the countries. maybe not nukes, but ballistic missiles. just because you say there is no threat, doesnt mean there isn't. the world is a fucked up place.

    that said, I dont necessarily think its worth pissing of Russia this bad just to have this missile defense system in poland. we should compromise.
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    spyguy wrote:
    the US government does feel that there is a threat from the countries. maybe not nukes, but ballistic missiles. just because you say there is no threat, doesnt mean there isn't. the world is a fucked up place.

    that said, I dont necessarily think its worth pissing of Russia this bad just to have this missile defense system in poland. we should compromise.
    The US government also felt the 'threat' of Iraq, does that justify the war and occupation of their territory?

    also, what kind of 'compromise' are you talking about?
  • OffHeGoes29
    OffHeGoes29 Posts: 1,240
    The Patriot Missile is a defensive weapon only. They are already in Germany, if you read the artical, they are moving whats already in Germany to Poland. Its the same mission in Germany, to defend Western Europe from any Air threat. We had them around the base I was stationed at in Germany a couple years ago. They are not an offensive weapon, meaning the US can't just fire them into Russia, thats not what they are designed for. We just sold Poland a bunch of new F-16s, they are looking to update their military. Russia doesn't have a great history with Poland, they invaded the country 4 times in the last 100 years.
    BRING BACK THE WHALE
  • OffHeGoes29
    OffHeGoes29 Posts: 1,240
    catefrances wrote:
    LMAO!!! dont insult me. i would have thought anyone with any intelligence would realise that NATO will be supportive of anything the USA does because the USA is a massive part of NATO. it is not in their economic best interests to go against the US.
    constructive enough for you?

    This move is in Europe's best interest.
    BRING BACK THE WHALE
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    OffHeGoes29 wrote:
    This move is in Europe's best interest.
    bad relations - and possibly war - with Russia is in Europe's best interest?

    the way the world works...
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    OffHeGoes29 wrote:
    The Patriot Missile is a defensive weapon only. They are already in Germany, if you read the artical, they are moving whats already in Germany to Poland. Its the same mission in Germany, to defend Western Europe from any Air threat. We had them around the base I was stationed at in Germany a couple years ago. They are not an offensive weapon, meaning the US can't just fire them into Russia, thats not what they are designed for. We just sold Poland a bunch of new F-16s, they are looking to update their military. Russia doesn't have a great history with Poland, they invaded the country 4 times in the last 100 years.

    exactly. but there is no way you are going to convince people around here of that.
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    spyguy wrote:
    exactly. but there is no way you are going to convince people around here of that.
    well, i think it's more convincing when you say things like 'move along' don't you?
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    outlaw, if you are replying to me dont bother. you are on ignore.
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    spyguy wrote:
    outlaw, if you are replying to me dont bother. you are on ignore.
    :D
  • OffHeGoes29
    OffHeGoes29 Posts: 1,240
    spyguy wrote:
    exactly. but there is no way you are going to convince people around here of that.

    Because most people (not everyone) don't think for themselves. I can't speak for anyone here, but most people I know personally, just regurgitate what the media wants them to think. They were pro war when things looked good, and anti war when things looked bad.

    The world is not black and white. We can't have 100% peace and love, and we can't have the "kill them all" mentality. The world is a complicated place, things can't be solved with an easy answer.
    BRING BACK THE WHALE
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    OffHeGoes29 wrote:
    Because most people (not everyone) don't think for themselves. I can't speak for anyone here, but most people I know personally, just regurgitate what the media wants them to think. They were pro war when things looked good, and anti war when things looked bad.

    The world is not black and white. We can't have 100% peace and love, and we can't have the "kill them all" mentality. The world is a complicated place, things can't be solved with an easy answer.
    nope, they're solved with 'defense systems'.
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    OffHeGoes29 wrote:
    The Patriot Missile is a defensive weapon only. They are already in Germany, if you read the artical, they are moving whats already in Germany to Poland. Its the same mission in Germany, to defend Western Europe from any Air threat. We had them around the base I was stationed at in Germany a couple years ago. They are not an offensive weapon, meaning the US can't just fire them into Russia, thats not what they are designed for. We just sold Poland a bunch of new F-16s, they are looking to update their military. Russia doesn't have a great history with Poland, they invaded the country 4 times in the last 100 years.

    Then you should know the missile defense shield is about more than a bunch of Patriot Missile batteries to be setup throughout Poland. What about the radar shield in the Czech Republic? Russia's reaction could be due to the fact that this system will be able to not only detect, but to knock down any Russian ICBM during launch. This is also a way to get around the number of ABM launchers under the 1972 ABM Treaty. We are trying to make Russia inept with this missile defense shield and nothing good comes from backing an angry opponent in the corner.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    spyguy wrote:
    its probably no big deal that Russia threatened Poland with nukes right?
    ...
    Correct me if I'm wrong... but, didn't Russia threaten Poland because Poland agreed to allow us to place a missile defense system on their soil?
    I have a feeling that should the Russians agree with Cuba to place Russian missile defense systems near Havana... we would level our sights onto Cuba because Cuba has exposed themselves as a threat to us with their agreement.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Correct me if I'm wrong... but, didn't Russia threaten Poland because Poland agreed to allow us to place a missile defense system on their soil?
    I have a feeling that should the Russians agree with Cuba to place Russian missile defense systems near Havana... we would level our sights onto Cuba because Cuba has exposed themselves as a threat to us with their agreement.

    why would russia need a missle defense system in cuba?

    and I'm not military weapons expert but there is a different between a defensive and offensive system right?

    regardless, threaten with nukes is much different then threatening without nukes.
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    Russia used to be a strong ally. What happened? Why would you plant a missile defense shield right next to the border of your ally?

    The Bush administration has their heads up their asses.

    Russia is on the right track - they're nationalistic and they're not going to take crap from anyone. They don't invade a nation when it's not in their interest - South Ossetia and Abkhazia are in their interest. Iraq was not in our interest.

    Vladimir Putin is wildly popular in Russia because his policies have exploded the Russian economy. He's a Russian Orthodox Christian and a brilliant leader - Russia is on the move. We would be well advised to stay out of their way.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • JordyWordy
    JordyWordy Posts: 2,261
    _outlaw wrote:
    well, i think it's more convincing when you say things like 'move along' don't you?

    LOL!
    :D that had me laughing, sharp. :D
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    spyguy wrote:
    why would russia need a missle defense system in cuba?

    and I'm not military weapons expert but there is a different between a defensive and offensive system right?

    regardless, threaten with nukes is much different then threatening without nukes.
    ...
    There is great mistrust between Russia and the U.S., dispite the break-up of the former Soviet Union. We can say.. and really mean.... that the missles in Poland are to fend off an Iranian threat. But, that does not mean they believe us, right?
    It'd be the same thing if we were being told by the Russians that missiles in Cuba were there to fend off a Canadian threat. We wouldn't... and shouldn't... buy that at face value.
    ...
    And yes.. there is a difference. But, when you look at military strategy, you want to take out any early warning systems and defensive positions first. Placing a defense system in your front yard will expose you as a threat in a First Strike offensive.
    Will the U.S. launch a first strike against Russia? We don't believe that. But, they are not as sure as we are. Sort of like if the Russians assured us that they would never launch a First Strike at us... should we believe them?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • JordyWordy
    JordyWordy Posts: 2,261
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    Russia used to be a strong ally. What happened? Why would you plant a missile defense shield right next to the border of your ally?

    The Bush administration has their heads up their asses.

    Russia is on the right track - they're nationalistic and they're not going to take crap from anyone. They don't invade a nation when it's not in their interest - South Ossetia and Abkhazia are in their interest. Iraq was not in our interest.

    Vladimir Putin is wildly popular in Russia because his policies have exploded the Russian economy. He's a Russian Orthodox Christian and a brilliant leader - Russia is on the move. We would be well advised to stay out of their way.

    wise words. very well put.

Categories