Inspired from the religon thread

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  • Posts: 26
    Angelica everyone sins no matter how religous, spiritual etc.. and they know that sin is wrong so do the support the sin they chose to do anyway? If your belief is in the christian faith sin is equal be it killing or lying etc... So to believe your sin is less than someone elses is going against some of your last post is it not.
  • Posts: 8,209
    surferdude wrote:
    And to a non-religious person their personal beliefs are supposed to come before all else, or they aren't beliefs.

    No, non-religious people change their minds and can decide what they may believe one day can change the next. A religion is a set of rules to follow.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Posts: 26
    No religon is a set of beliefs not rules. Religon requires belief in the God and the teachings of that God.
  • Posts: 2,057
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I'm saying that to be religious aren't you supposed to actually follow these beliefs. Can you say you are christian but not follow the christian beliefs. I can't say I'm a vegan and eat meat.
    So the moment you accidentally eat meat or an animal product you would no longer consider yourself a vegan? Please, I believe that to be pure bullshit. Do you allow no one the right to make mistakes in their life?
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Posts: 6,038
    messymarv wrote:
    Angelica everyone sins no matter how religous, spiritual etc.. and they know that sin is wrong so do the support the sin they chose to do anyway? If your belief is in the christian faith sin is equal be it killing or lying etc...
    I'm asking a simple question: how do people justify doing something wrong. I will say, I make mistakes all the time. I do not justify them. I say "I made a mistake" and I look for ways to no longer make that mistake. To justify and give myself permission to make the mistake is enabling one's self to continue making the "mistake". Unfortunately, we all know the truth that it is no longer a "mistake" but rather we know we've compromised our deepest ideals when we are justifying the "mistake". That's fine--we have free choice to do what we please. Doesn't it make sense that if we are going to be compromising our ideals, or throwing them to the side, that we are making a conscious choice to do so? I wouldn't condone turning a blind eye to such important personal values decisions.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Posts: 8,209
    surferdude wrote:
    So the moment you accidentally eat meat or an animal product you would no longer consider yourself a vegan? Please, I believe that to be pure bullshit. Do you allow no one the right to make mistakes in their life?

    No, not accidentally....make the decision to eat meat. If supporting the war was a weak momnet for them then they shouldn't have made that decision...it's called a mistake. Are religious war supporters making a mistake?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Posts: 14,977
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I'm saying that to be religious aren't you supposed to actually follow these beliefs. Can you say you are christian but not follow the christian beliefs. I can't say I'm a vegan and eat meat.


    actually, you can say it...just doesn't make it so. ;)
    i know people who call themselves vegitarians and yet eat fish?! so yea.....:p

    i have to say, i see your take on it...and i see surfers...and i see 'right' in both of em.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • Posts: 2,057
    angelica wrote:
    If people are uncomfortable facing the idea of God's judgment now, to Abook, imagine answering it in the Light of God and all knowledge. I've had to do that before and I've cowered at some of my own actions. I've been humbled to my knees and in tears begging for forgiveness when recognising parts of myself that had gotten so far away from what I truly am as a spark of God. It's a lot easier to focus on Abook's untoward questions isn't it?
    I find the fact that God can love a bastard like me very humbling. I find people wanting others to justify their actions as to how they relate to a very personal relationship very much like bashing. There a tons of very poor Christians, me included. I am fully accountable to God for my actions. I also accept that I am human and I will and do make mistakes. I find it bordering on hateful when someone wants to hold a set of people to an entirely different set of standards than others.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Posts: 26
    Angelica my point in one of my original post was that almost every religon has their God or Gods supporting war or the death of someone. Example used was in Christianity empowering David to Kill Goliath. God supported that, as well as the rule of David by delievering his enemies in battle to him while he was King. Thus cause the death and killing of Davids enemies. So technically God supported killing himself if i support it by supporting a war?
  • Posts: 14,977
    hmmm..just an aside here. as i was looking up the 10 commandments due to my curiosity from issues stemming from this thread, i see the whole 'thou shall not kill'...is also listed as 'thou shall not kill innocents'......? which i never saw before, i always had the concise, sunday-school version. so perhaps this alludes to my earlier question of righteous killing? that if one is deemed 'not innocent'..how one gets to deem that i have no idea, but if that's ok, then perhaps judeo-christians in any case may say it's ok? in regards to other eligions, i don't know enough about them to truly weigh in with an opinion on their rules of righteous killing. so perhaps this alludes to the justification?
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • Posts: 2,057
    decides2dream wrote:
    i have to say, i see your take on it...and i see surfers...and i see 'right' in both of em.
    That's why everyone loves you. You're so sensible and probably a lot of other good adjectives.
    I really respect abook, but it is fun to butt heads with her from time to time.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Posts: 26
    Dreams that would require you to judge another and in that religon your are not the one to judge just God so then to judge someone not innocent would be going against your belief.
  • Posts: 8,209
    surferdude wrote:
    That's why everyone loves you. You're so sensible and probably a lot of other good adjectives.
    I really respect abook, but it is fun to butt heads with her from time to time.

    Everyones loves to hate me!! I love it. :)
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Posts: 26
    I dont hate you might not totally agree but that doesn't mean i hate.
  • Posts: 6,038
    surferdude wrote:
    I find the fact that God can love a bastard like me very humbling. I find people wanting others to justify their actions as to how they relate to a very personal relationship very much like bashing. There a tons of very poor Christians, me included. I am fully accountable to God for my actions. I also accept that I am human and I will and do make mistakes. I find it bordering on hateful when someone wants to hold a set of people to an entirely different set of standards than others.
    I note that this question seems to be one people are avoiding like the plague. I can't say I wouldn't dodge it myself.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Posts: 14,977
    interesting.......

    Christian
    "You shall not kill."
    Since respect for life includes an obligation to respect one's own life and the lives of people under one's protection, it is legitimate to use force -- even fatal force -- against the threats of an aggressor who cannot be stopped any other way. While Catholic teaching recognizes the right of states to execute criminals when necessary to preserve the safety of citizens, the Church argues that other methods of protecting society (incarceration, rehabilitation) are increasingly available in the modern world; thus, there are now few if any cases that really necessitate capital punishment. Catholics (along with many fundamentalist Protestants) also consider abortion sinful and a violation of this commandment.

    Judeism
    "Thou shalt not murder"
    Killing an innocent human being is a capital sin.


    also...

    Muslims regard Moses as one of their greatest prophets, but they reject the Biblical versions of the Ten Commandments. Islam teaches that the Biblical text used in Judaism and Christianity has been corrupted over the years, by carelessness or malice, from its divine original. Muslims believe that the Qur'an is a revelation from God continuing the revelations on which they believe the Torah and Gospels to be based, intended to restore the original Adamic and Abrahamic faith.

    Despite the Ten Commandments not being explicitly mentioned in the Qur'an they are implied by the following translation of verses in the Quran (using Jewish numbering):


    "....anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he murdered all the people." (5:32)


    both taken from here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

    if you scroll down, you get the various 'interpretations' of the commandments according to various faiths. why/how these interpretations splintered, don't know...but definitely alludes to 'justified righteous killing' as i mentioned/questioned earlier.




    surfer, all i can say is HA. :D
    and sure, thank you.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • Posts: 6,038
    messymarv wrote:
    Angelica my point in one of my original post was that almost every religon has their God or Gods supporting war or the death of someone. Example used was in Christianity empowering David to Kill Goliath. God supported that, as well as the rule of David by delievering his enemies in battle to him while he was King. Thus cause the death and killing of Davids enemies. So technically God supported killing himself if i support it by supporting a war?

    It sounds like you interpret the bible differently than I would. God does not support killing, except for in the sense he gives us free will to do exactly what we choose. Man can and does distort God's purposes all the time, with our pettiness.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Posts: 8,209
    messymarv wrote:
    I dont hate you might not totally agree but that doesn't mean i hate.


    I didn't mean it literally...more tongue in cheek. lol
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Posts: 26
    just a relpy
  • Posts: 4,438
    messymarv wrote:
    If you dont believe in killing and someone was out to kill you and you defended your self and killed the person you are indeed still a killer supporting it with the rest of us.

    Okay, where does Jesus' 'turn the other cheek' concept fit in here? I was raised a Catholic. Jesus said love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, if someone hits you, turn the other cheek rather than hitting back. How does this all fit together?
    R.i.p. Rigoberto Alpizar.
    R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
    R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008

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