Inspired from the religon thread
Abookamongstthemany
Posts: 8,209
I've noticed many conservatives here that stand behind their countries every decision. These same conservatives are also sometimes very religous. What happens when your faith/religous beliefs contradicts your support of the government? If you are against killing then how can you support a government who participates in killing needlessly.
Don't Kill - Hamell on Trial
God called down from the mountain, God called down from the sky
He said, "I told you, I told you, I told you.
don't kill, don't kill, don't kill
don't kill for lovin', please don't kill for hate.
Don't kill in my name, don't kill for heaven's sake.
Don't kill, don't kill, don't kill.
Once again you didn't understand me.
or you disobeyed from all I can detect.
From what I remember I did more than ask you,
I commanded it, from what I recollect.
Was it the the 'Thou' part that threw you? Thou means you.
Was it the 'Shalt not' part that confused you?
Shalt not means DON'T.
Don't kill, don't kill, don't kill.
There are no divinely sanctioned murders.
Who'd know better than me?
I'm God, why don't you hear me?
I've been saying the same shit for centuries.
You say it's me that you worship.
All you Christians, all you Muslims, all you Jews.
I'm going to it one more time, DON'T KILL YOUR NEIGHBOR.
Jesus Christ this shouldn't be news.
Don't kill, don't kill, don't kill.
Don't Kill - Hamell on Trial
God called down from the mountain, God called down from the sky
He said, "I told you, I told you, I told you.
don't kill, don't kill, don't kill
don't kill for lovin', please don't kill for hate.
Don't kill in my name, don't kill for heaven's sake.
Don't kill, don't kill, don't kill.
Once again you didn't understand me.
or you disobeyed from all I can detect.
From what I remember I did more than ask you,
I commanded it, from what I recollect.
Was it the the 'Thou' part that threw you? Thou means you.
Was it the 'Shalt not' part that confused you?
Shalt not means DON'T.
Don't kill, don't kill, don't kill.
There are no divinely sanctioned murders.
Who'd know better than me?
I'm God, why don't you hear me?
I've been saying the same shit for centuries.
You say it's me that you worship.
All you Christians, all you Muslims, all you Jews.
I'm going to it one more time, DON'T KILL YOUR NEIGHBOR.
Jesus Christ this shouldn't be news.
Don't kill, don't kill, don't kill.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
Huh? How is asking about the consistancy in anothers religous beliefs any justification for forcing that religion on all of us?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
If we have it on our money, in our courtrooms, etc...then yes, it is forced. Not my point though, how is asking a question about a contradiction having anything both ways?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
LOL? Killing is being discussed and you are LOL? Okay. In any case to answer your question, my feeling is people who believe in those commandments should follow them. I'm not a Christian, but I sure do believe in Thou Shalt Not Kill. If EVERYONE EVERYWHERE, in (or out of) all faiths, would stop killing others, many problems would be solved.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
btw - one does not need to be religious, thus does not need the 10 commandments...to actually believe that 'thou shalt not kill' is a good idea. also, once again....the 10 commandments are religious, our government is not supposed to be. thus, stands to reason that the display of something of a religious nature has no business in a government building. seems pretty clear to me. want to view the 10 commandments on prominent display? go visit your church...just like a muslim can go see the qur'an at their mosque, etc. why does one of the principles of this country - seperation of church and state - seem to so vex some? no one is stopping you from practicing your faith...it just has no place in the government.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
You can't. That's why I don't.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
in the broadest sense, it is. if you look at it as the 'collective WE'...as in we the people, it is meant as a representation of ALL of us, our collective beliefs, that we ALL as americans believe. obviously, all don't. now while i honestly couldn't care less, not a big deal to me, far bigger issues looming, etc...it is point of fact 'forcing' religion in that sense...it does NOT in fact represent ALL then. again, it is odd in a country supposedly based on religious freedoms and seperation of church and state...that such phrasing IS on our national currency. no, you don't have to believe in God to spend it, but as a national symbol of our country and it's citizens, it excludes instead of includes....and it shouldn't, that's all.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Read the other religon thread where they were discussing how much killing is done in the name of religion. Many people were saying that religion is all about not killing. So I was just wondering how they could support a government that goes against their religion....it seems to me you can't stand firmly behind both. I was hoping for more insight into how they could.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I was hoping for some replies for those that do.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
In the famous words of church lady from SNL....What if the money said in SATAN we trust?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I'm sorry. I respect your opinion. I really do. But really, let's be reasonable. It sounds to me like you are a reasonable individual. "In God we trust" on the currency does not, even in the broadest sense force religion, or even faith on anyone. It is also in no way in violation of separation of church and state as it does not attempt to establish a state sponsored religion. I agree its a stupid issue.
well how about this: do you at least concede, forgetting it's relative importance or non-importance, that at the VERY least, it as a national symbol does not accurately depict ALL citizens, thus is exclusionary instead of inclusionary? while i do not know EVERY currency on the face of the earth, i find it rather ironic that of ALL the foreign countries i have visited, none of them have ANY language that at ALL is linked to God/religion...and then we, as americans, a country based on freedom/demomcracy....begun to escape religious perseucution, etc....have such on our currency.
it does, imho at the very least...force the IDEA of God, that we as a collective citizenship believe in such. however, it most definitely IS a violation of the seperation of church and state...b/c while it does not force/promote any one religion, it does in fact push the agenda of belief, of God, of religion, and that has no business in our government.
however, as i said initially....i do not consider it an 'important' issue, especially in the scheme of things...but to not at least admit it is wrong seems wrong to me. and that much i consdier reasonable. i am not asking for change, just to admit it. i agree, our founding fathers probably didn't even imagine a world w/o belief...but to say a country is for the seperation of church and state...for religious freedom...well then, one must also support the rights to not believe...and our government symbols should represent all citizens. merely my 2 cents.
btw - just b/c many of our laws stems from religious beliefs, doesn't actually negate the idea that they are all good ideas and a non-religious person can fully support such...and laws and changes to law are meant to represent the ideals of the people.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
What I find funny about this thread is that it is really about bashing religious people for acting the exact same way non-religious people act. I could only imagine your outrage if a minister or church leader ran on a platform of following the bible and got elected. You'd be screaming.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Well, see, here I have to be fair. As most people here know, I am a person of faith so can appreciate your rhethoric, but, it is, in fact wrong to imply that those without faith would condone killing or be completely without moral code. This is why I don't understand the whole "ten commandments in the courtroom controversy". I can't really see the staunchest of atheists disagreeing with any one of the ten. They're common sense. I believe very strongly in God, but you don't really have to to know that killing and stealing, for example, are wrong.
simply b/c they are of a religious nature and while we probably all can agree that 'thou shalt not kill' is a no brainer...although would seem highly ironic to have THAT on display in a government building....the more fuzzy commandments of say 'thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife'...some might disagree with.
bottomline, the 10 commandments are representative of a judeo-christian faith, and all our citizens do not follow that faith, if any...so again.....while the ideals of the commandments many/most may agree...we simply do not need/should not have something from one faith in a building that represents us ALL....we have our laws for that.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Perhaps. I think even this is a stretch. I'll concede a little here. But I absolutely draw the line at perhaps, mildly, exclusionary.
perhaps if you were a staunch atheist, you might feel a bit more strongly about being excluded.
kinda seems like the flip side of the whole ed/vh1/fuckem debate. b/c it seems some felt rather excluded by ed and his comments, jest or not...and that's only our fave rock band...not our government who is supposed to represent us. but i digress.
i appreciate at least the perhaps.....even if it's stretched.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
How is not reasonable? To a satanic perosn maybe 'god' seems unreasonable.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
This is not about bashing religous people at all. I am curious as to why they support the administration when they are needlessly killing. If 'Thou shall not kill' is one of their ten commandments I would think they would be denouncing these policies, speaking out. I fully aware many do but my question is to those who are voicing support for this killing. I'm just wondering how you can devote your life to following god and then ignore this.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
well in this sense, one should be fair; not all religious people support our government, this war, etc...any more than non-religious. i do in fact know some pretty devout, religious people, who whole-heartedly are against the war, against our current administration...and even are in support of choice, etc...b/c they rightly assert what they believe/practice is theirs, and it is right for others to be afforded the rights to make their own choices too. amazing, but true.
oops...damn, i am guilty of not reading fully.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I agree with Abook, it's a fair question. I've always been mesmerised with the "rationalisations" for doing abhorrant destructive things.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
No way. Whether people are religious or not, most societies in general have agreed that not killing others, and not stealing other peoples' stuff improves the quality of life for everyone. I don't have to be religious to think this. I can agree with some concepts that religious people think without being religious myself. Its not mutually exclusive.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
thank you! seriously, i know i've read/heard of it...at least within catholicism, the only religion i am even remotely schooled in. there is some sort of 'loophole' in it...but again i stress i really don't know more about it. i actually used to teach in a catholic school - i was an art teacher, so no worries on me being a negative influence on any religious youth
do please read my posts, not once in any way, shape, or form have i EVER 'bashed' a religious person. i am all for CHOICE, and that includes the right to believe whatever you choose. so yes, i do actually afford them those very same 'rights'...as i do anyone.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley