Taxes, taxes, taxes...

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Comments

  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Then, DO IT!!!
    ..then you can quit crying.


    Really - one has nothing to do with the other. Even if I ended up not having to pay taxes, it wouldn't mean that I'm suddenly in favor of them. Ever heard of opposing something on principle?

    Furthermore, if I had to give all of my income away to charity, how would I live?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    know1 wrote:
    Really - one has nothing to do with the other. Even if I ended up not having to pay taxes, it wouldn't mean that I'm suddenly in favor of them. Ever heard of opposing something on principle?

    Furthermore, if I had to give all of my income away to charity, how would I live?
    ...
    You could live on the money that the rest of us taxpayers pay.
    And we... well... I wouldn't mind because I really don't care how you got into the situation you are in... all I know is that you have no money to live on and I'm more than happy to pitch in with my tax dollars to get you shelter and food because I believe the weak should be protected by the strong... not pissed on by them.
    You can also go to those charities you gave all you money to... I'm sure they'd help you out. Unless you gave all your money to the save the Lemurs of Zimbawe Charity Group.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    You could live on the money that the rest of us taxpayers pay.
    And we... well... I wouldn't mind because I really don't care how you got into the situation you are in... all I know is that you have no money to live on and I'm more than happy to pitch in with my tax dollars to get you shelter and food because I believe the weak should be protected by the strong... not pissed on by them.
    You can also go to those charities you gave all you money to... I'm sure they'd help you out. Unless you gave all your money to the save the Lemurs of Zimbawe Charity Group.

    Anyway - not sure how we went down that semi-related tangent.

    It's still fairly close-minded to assume that because I wouldn't be paying taxes that I'd suddenly be in favor of the. I mean, is that why you favor them?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    know1 wrote:
    Anyway - not sure how we went down that semi-related tangent.

    It's still fairly close-minded to assume that because I wouldn't be paying taxes that I'd suddenly be in favor of the. I mean, is that why you favor them?
    ...
    I never said that. I don't care what your 'Tax Principles' are... you are always crying about them... I thought of a way to get you to quit your damn sobbing already.
    ...
    And i don't mind paying taxes... I don't like the way they spend some of them. And I let my Representatives know.
    I don't mind paying to keep the National Highways open... or helping out people on Welfare... or constructing prison to house bad people... regulate air traffic over my head...
    I'm making descent wage.. I'm fucking comfortable... i don't need luxuries... I can eat when I'm hungry... sleep in a warm bed...
    i picture my tax dollars going to feed hungry people... help Military Vets... fix pothole on the 405 and pay the nice Park Ranger at the National Parks i visit.
    Someone needs to pay for all that shit... and i don't mind.
    I guess your 'principes' are opposed to all of that.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • heartdesire
    heartdesire Posts: 430
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    I never said that. I don't care what your 'Tax Principles' are... you are always crying about them... I thought of a way to get you to quit your damn sobbing already.
    ...
    And i don't mind paying taxes... I don't like the way they spend some of them. And I let my Representatives know.
    I don't mind paying to keep the National Highways open... or helping out people on Welfare... or constructing prison to house bad people... regulate air traffic over my head...
    I'm making descent wage.. I'm fucking comfortable... i don't need luxuries... I can eat when I'm hungry... sleep in a warm bed...
    i picture my tax dollars going to feed hungry people... help Military Vets... fix pothole on the 405 and pay the nice Park Ranger at the National Parks i visit.
    Someone needs to pay for all that shit... and i don't mind.
    I guess your 'principes' are opposed to all of that.

    Imagine if more felt this way! I'm with ya ... thanks for your honesty! : )
    "i'm a dedicated insomniac" ~ ev nyc beacon 6/22
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    I never said that. I don't care what your 'Tax Principles' are... you are always crying about them... I thought of a way to get you to quit your damn sobbing already.
    ...
    And i don't mind paying taxes... I don't like the way they spend some of them. And I let my Representatives know.
    I don't mind paying to keep the National Highways open... or helping out people on Welfare... or constructing prison to house bad people... regulate air traffic over my head...
    I'm making descent wage.. I'm fucking comfortable... i don't need luxuries... I can eat when I'm hungry... sleep in a warm bed...
    i picture my tax dollars going to feed hungry people... help Military Vets... fix pothole on the 405 and pay the nice Park Ranger at the National Parks i visit.
    Someone needs to pay for all that shit... and i don't mind.
    I guess your 'principes' are opposed to all of that.

    But don't you see it's possible to want to pay for all those things (and others not mentioned), but be against the principle of being forced to?

    More accurately, I've seen firsthand how, time and time and time and time again the government wastes or mis-spends the tax dollars it collects. I believe we could all do those things you mentioned much more effectively and also more bountifully if we cut the government out of it.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • digster
    digster Posts: 1,293
    digster wrote:
    Fair points, but if these are the ways that the President stabilizes the economy, how do you explain the sorry state of the economy that has been on a downward spiral for the past four to five years? I understand that some of it is beyond Bush's control, but much of it is due to his tax policy, and his unwillingness to cut spending. McCain, besides his talk of earmarks (which account for 16 billion dollars of the annual budget; we will spend more than that in Iraq over the course of the next two months), does not seem to be talking too much of spending, and when it is it's mostly talk. Also, how do you explain the pinch the middle class felt under Reagan, when a similar economic plan was introduced that had similar effects?

    It seems that, for all the talk of Democratic policies from the Executive branch hurting the economic stability of the country, the economy thrived under the last Democratic eight-year run and stumbled during the two eight-year blocks of Republican leadership that bookended Clinton's two terms.


    Hate to be an asshole and bring my own quote back up, but I'd really appreciate a McCain supporter helping me with this one, because it seems to me the facts work against your candidate.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    know1 wrote:
    But don't you see it's possible to want to pay for all those things (and others not mentioned), but be against the principle of being forced to?

    More accurately, I've seen firsthand how, time and time and time and time again the government wastes or mis-spends the tax dollars it collects. I believe we could all do those things you mentioned much more effectively and also more bountifully if we cut the government out of it.
    ...
    You are living in a fantasy world. If people didn't HAVE to pay... they wouldn't pay. Would you? you would pay to have that pot hole fixed? Riiiight. Someone ELSE will pay for it.
    Where would the money come from?
    And YES there IS WASTE. That is what I have been saying all along. CUT THE SPENDING. A start can be the millions we funnel into the pockets of foriegn leaders and oil Shieks so they will 'be our friend' or work out slimy deals to control oil production.
    ...
    And if you have first hand examples of government waste that you have personally witnessed... and did nothing. Don't you hold part of the blame for that?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    or helping out people on Welfare


    Agreed with everything except this.
  • heartdesire
    heartdesire Posts: 430
    Cosmo wrote:

    ...

    or helping out people on welfare

    unsung wrote:
    Agreed with everything except this.

    Unsung you seem to be highly against helping folks out through government. I don't know you at all, just assessing this from reading your posts.
    "i'm a dedicated insomniac" ~ ev nyc beacon 6/22
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    You are living in a fantasy world. If people didn't HAVE to pay... they wouldn't pay. Would you? you would pay to have that pot hole fixed? Riiiight. Someone ELSE will pay for it.
    Where would the money come from?
    And YES there IS WASTE. That is what I have been saying all along. CUT THE SPENDING. A start can be the millions we funnel into the pockets of foriegn leaders and oil Shieks so they will 'be our friend' or work out slimy deals to control oil production.
    ...
    And if you have first hand examples of government waste that you have personally witnessed... and did nothing. Don't you hold part of the blame for that?

    I agree that cutting spending should be our first move, but it almost never is and then whenever the government tries to cut funding, there is almost always a big uproar.

    And yes - I think that people will pay for lots of those things, but not on the basis of things like a single pothole.

    Furthermore, I've never said we shouldn't pay ANY taxes, but I do think they should be drastically reduced.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Kann
    Kann Posts: 1,146
    _outlaw wrote:
    to those who think taxes are more important than foreign policy, I don't care if this gets me banned, but go fuck yourselves.
    So if people have different political priorities they should fuck off? And do you also have prefered priorities in foreign policy, or can the people just choose which cause they feel is more important alone?
    I still don't understand what's so bad in paying taxes when you live in a society but it's still possible to understand people have different priorities.
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    heart&desire wrote:
    Unsung you seem to be highly against helping folks out through government. I don't know you at all, just assessing this from reading your posts.


    Not entirely true. I'm all for helping people who NEED help. I'm not for helping the lazy able-bodied people who abuse said systems. Welfare is too large to just say I'll help people on it. I also believe there should be rules and stipulations when accepting this tax payer funded program. The first would be mandatory drug tests. The second would be only available to US citizens or LEGAL resident aliens. I also believe people should do something for the money, anything. Serve food in homeless shelters, pick up garbage off the streets, clean up beaches, help in areas that need volunteers, anything. Someone (the name escapes me right now) once said that just have the able bodies show up and stare at the walls for eight hours a day, they don't have to do anything but show up and sit. Eventually the numbers there would dwindle to a minimum.

    I'm just not for paying for someone to stay home and get fat, smoke crack, play video games, have more kids when they can't afford to, while people who actually work provide the means for them to do so. I'm sick of people thinking they are owed anything.

    Welfare should be reserved for people who are truly on hard times, not for those who consider it a weekly (biweekly I don't know) paycheck.
  • floyd1975
    floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    know1 wrote:
    I agree that cutting spending should be our first move, but it almost never is and then whenever the government tries to cut funding, there is almost always a big uproar.

    Very true. If we did cut the funding to foreign leaders, it would be obvious that we hate foreigners. If you would like to cut the bloated bureaucracy of the Federal Department of Education, you must hate children. Cut the Department of Homeland Security, you must want more Americans to die. Cut PBS, you want Big Bird to die. Cutting spending is always thrown around by people until it is their own bloated pet project that is being cut.

    What we need is a leader with enough balls to not care what the people, some of whom have probably posted in this thread, say about them.
  • Pacomc79
    Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Taxes are a part of living in a civilized society. Taxation is an issue and the methods therein, paying taxes is not. Paying taxes is part of life and we pay for a lot of services that otherwise would not be done in some cases. Large government much like large corporations often get too large bulky and convoluted to be efficient. Jacks of all trades... masters of none... with a lot of shrink too because of the intoxication of all that capital.

    Spending and efficiency are tied into taxation. Which also is tied into foreign and domestic policy.

    We're not all that different whatever side of the spectrum we all lie on when you get down to brass tacks.

    It generally depends on the character of the people in positions of power and the rules in place whether they are effective and just or do the most good in the most efficient manner.

    It also depends on individuals priorities.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    Taxes are a part of living in a civilized society. Taxation is an issue and the methods therein, paying taxes is not. Paying taxes is part of life and we pay for a lot of services that otherwise would not be done in some cases. Large government much like large corporations often get too large bulky and convoluted to be efficient. Jacks of all trades... masters of none... with a lot of shrink too because of the intoxication of all that capital.

    Spending and efficiency are tied into taxation. Which also is tied into foreign and domestic policy.

    We're not all that different whatever side of the spectrum we all lie on when you get down to brass tacks.

    It generally depends on the character of the people in positions of power and the rules in place whether they are effective and just or do the most good in the most efficient manner.

    It also depends on individuals priorities.

    agreed ... the "tax is bad at all cost" mentality barely scratches the surface ... what we are ALL looking for is an efficiency in spending of said tax dollars ... if the money was efficiently spent - the rate becomes secondary ...
  • Strangest Tribe
    Strangest Tribe Posts: 2,502
    I agree, and I've been called a Liberal.
    I especially agree with the drug testing. If you can't pass a drug test you don't get a check. I would even go as far as testing for alcohol as well because I've been working with the welfare class for years and from what I've seen it's not the hard drugs that's crippling their motivation to work it's their dependency on alcohol. But that can also be said about many of those suits on Wall Street as well.

    unsung wrote:
    Not entirely true. I'm all for helping people who NEED help. I'm not for helping the lazy able-bodied people who abuse said systems. Welfare is too large to just say I'll help people on it. I also believe there should be rules and stipulations when accepting this tax payer funded program. The first would be mandatory drug tests. The second would be only available to US citizens or LEGAL resident aliens. I also believe people should do something for the money, anything. Serve food in homeless shelters, pick up garbage off the streets, clean up beaches, help in areas that need volunteers, anything. Someone (the name escapes me right now) once said that just have the able bodies show up and stare at the walls for eight hours a day, they don't have to do anything but show up and sit. Eventually the numbers there would dwindle to a minimum.

    I'm just not for paying for someone to stay home and get fat, smoke crack, play video games, have more kids when they can't afford to, while people who actually work provide the means for them to do so. I'm sick of people thinking they are owed anything.

    Welfare should be reserved for people who are truly on hard times, not for those who consider it a weekly (biweekly I don't know) paycheck.
    the Minions
  • heartdesire
    heartdesire Posts: 430
    unsung wrote:
    Not entirely true. I'm all for helping people who NEED help. I'm not for helping the lazy able-bodied people who abuse said systems. Welfare is too large to just say I'll help people on it. I also believe there should be rules and stipulations when accepting this tax payer funded program. The first would be mandatory drug tests. The second would be only available to US citizens or LEGAL resident aliens. I also believe people should do something for the money, anything. Serve food in homeless shelters, pick up garbage off the streets, clean up beaches, help in areas that need volunteers, anything. Someone (the name escapes me right now) once said that just have the able bodies show up and stare at the walls for eight hours a day, they don't have to do anything but show up and sit. Eventually the numbers there would dwindle to a minimum.

    I'm just not for paying for someone to stay home and get fat, smoke crack, play video games, have more kids when they can't afford to, while people who actually work provide the means for them to do so. I'm sick of people thinking they are owed anything.

    Welfare should be reserved for people who are truly on hard times, not for those who consider it a weekly (biweekly I don't know) paycheck.
    Strangest Tribe in response to Unsung wrote:
    I agree, and I've been called a Liberal. I especially agree with the drug testing. If you can't pass a drug test you don't get a check. I would even go as far as testing for alcohol as well because I've been working with the welfare class for years and from what I've seen it's not the hard drugs that's crippling their motivation to work it's their dependency on alcohol. But that can also be said about many of those suits on Wall Street as well.


    Thanks Unsung & ST. I agree. The welfare system has and continues to be abused. There are people who actually could really use this and won't, then others who sail along in it.

    Like many things in the system this aspect needs to be seriously reviewed and updated, along with some earnest checks & balance.

    I agree with whoever wrote, just have people show up. This quote is appropriate as well ... "Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime" - Author unknown.

    The hope and vision is to have an able bodied society where everyone contributes their share or to the best capacity they can.

    I have seen things in the last year that have changed my perspective on a lot of things. Life isn't always so simple.

    Thanks for the perspective. I join in with ya. There will always be loopholes and exceptions, so to me it is necessary to keep up with the checks and balances.
    "i'm a dedicated insomniac" ~ ev nyc beacon 6/22
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    Kann wrote:
    So if people have different political priorities they should fuck off? And do you also have prefered priorities in foreign policy, or can the people just choose which cause they feel is more important alone?
    I still don't understand what's so bad in paying taxes when you live in a society but it's still possible to understand people have different priorities.
    I don't have time right now to read the rest of the thread, so I'll just respond to you quickly.

    You're trying to turn this into a "just because people have different opinions/priorities than you doesn't mean you should tell them that, people are all different, blah blah blah"...
    Sorry, but for now, never mind the fact foreign policy actually DOES affect your taxes. But if someone is selfish and naive enough to think that foreign policy is not a more important issue- that is, wars that cost the lives of millions of people, cause millions more refugees, etc, is not more important that a SLIGHT possibility of paying a little more money, than it's just ridiculous.

    consider these 2 scenarios: a guy running for president who will keep us in Iraq longer, take us into Pakistan, possibly attack Iran, etc
    and a guy who will get us out of Iraq quicker, possibly respect Pakistan's sovereignty, work diplomatically with Iran, etc.

    do people really think that won't affect their precious taxes? and even if McCain doesn't raise taxes, do you think borrowing from China is much better? Just because it saves you that one trip to Disney Land doesn't mean anything.

    To sum it up, yes, I don't mind telling people who prioritize a percentage of their money over the lives of millions of other people to go fuck off.

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