Taxes, taxes, taxes...
fuck
Posts: 4,069
Is this all people have to complain about Obama? fucking taxes?
you guys are scared about the SLIGHT possibility that he may raise them when our economy is already in shit. people are actually supporting McCain because they're scared about TAXES.
what the fuck. do you guys not realize that 4000 U.S. soldiers won't even be able to fucking pay taxes, let alone LIVE due to the current president (who happens to ALSO be a republican, like McCain) and his baseless wars.
to think people are sitting here complaining about taxes when we're on the verge of invading a third country, and things are getting worse than ever.
to those who think taxes are more important than foreign policy, I don't care if this gets me banned, but go fuck yourselves.
you guys are scared about the SLIGHT possibility that he may raise them when our economy is already in shit. people are actually supporting McCain because they're scared about TAXES.
what the fuck. do you guys not realize that 4000 U.S. soldiers won't even be able to fucking pay taxes, let alone LIVE due to the current president (who happens to ALSO be a republican, like McCain) and his baseless wars.
to think people are sitting here complaining about taxes when we're on the verge of invading a third country, and things are getting worse than ever.
to those who think taxes are more important than foreign policy, I don't care if this gets me banned, but go fuck yourselves.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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The difference is... Democrats are tax and spend... Republicans are don't tax and spend.
Both spend on wasteful things... Democrats spend it on poor people living in America... Republicans spend it on rich people in other countries.
The taxes are at sufficient levels... if we were to take Iraq out of the equation. But, if we take Iraq out of the equation... the Democrats would spend that same money on shit like education and health care. And people don't make money on education and health care... but, we... a few of us... can make a shitload from Iraq.
That's the difference.
Hail, Hail!!!
Yup. And unfortunately neither of the two asshats running for president give a good goddam about cutting spending. So the only thing we can look at is their tax plans.
And _outlaw, I find it funny how you call on people to pay more attention to foreign policy, and throw your support behind a guy who is up Israel's ass. Just like neither have a spending reduction plan, neither have a plan for balance in the Middle East. Both will protect Israel at all costs.
I don't find the call on attention to foreign policy out of line at all. This frickin' war is causing all sorts of issues! Isn't anyone concerned about how this major issue is impacting our economy and our government?!
If the war wasn't happening we could focus on tax cuts and reducing spending with a bit more ease. That ain't the case.
Can you please share why you think Obama has his head up Israel's ass? Sorry if I have missed something, point me in the direction to better understand your view.
The situation is duly complicated. It seems it would take several strategists and diplomats to come up with a plan for the balance in the Middle East. The current administration is not about balance as it wants to take out Osama Bin Laden and so it seems military man McCain wants to as well. And who knows what else is driving the current administration ... oil, maybe?
It appears, everything is hard to tell for sure in this political arena, that Obama has a mind for peace. What is so wrong with this and maybe it is a good thing he has his so called head up Israels ass.
This war impacts taxes and our nation as a whole. How can we go on with business as usual when everything seems to be falling apart around us and the current and potentials want to continue on the war path.
There is a lot at stake than meets the eye ...
However, at the end of the day, Obama's foreign policy is so much better than McCain's, it's laughable to see anyone else think otherwise. Obama will also be much easier to lobby than McCain will be.
Foreign policy isn't all about Israel, though that does play a major role. Still, when it comes to Iraq and Iran, Obama is definitely better and will be easier for us to work with than McCain will be.
By GLEN JOHNSON – 2 days ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — Alan Greenspan says the country can't afford tax cuts of the magnitude proposed by Republican presidential contender John McCain — at least not without a corresponding reduction in government spending.
"Unless we cut spending, no," the former Federal Reserve chairman said Friday when asked McCain's proposed tax cuts, pegged in some estimates at $3.3 trillion.
"I'm not in favor of financing tax cuts with borrowed money," Greenspan said during an interview with Bloomberg Television. "I always have tied tax cuts to spending."
I didn't say calling attention to foreign policy was out of line. I agree that it is important. But for me, just as important is what an administration is going to do to my bottom line.
I have said time and again that I wish we'd pull the troops out tomorrow. Not a measured withdrawal, but get them the hell out of harm's way as quickly as possible. Yes, that would take a tremendous bite out of current spending. But everyone keeps saying "think of what we could do with that money..." I don't hear people (like Obama or McCain) saying that this will enable us to reduce spending and lower everyone's tax burden.
Absolutely. Here's what gives me that idea when he was speaking at an AIPAC meeting: "I will bring to the White House an unshakeable commitment to Israel's security. That starts with ensuring Israel's qualitative military advantage. "
I agree with you that oil has been a driver. But I guess the complication is only a factor of one's objective in the region. A more simple approach would be to knock off the friends and enemies scenario we've created in the Middle East. If countries want to battle it out, have at it. Once they've battled it out, the winner can call us and we can establish a mutually beneficial trade agreement. I have no interest in creating friends and enemies. Only trading partners.
I believe he has more of a mind for peace than Bush/Cheney/McCain. But having his head up Israel's ass won't bring peace. It will only perpetuate the conflict we currently have with almost every other country in the Middle East.
I agree and don't want to go on with business as usual. I want business to be drastically different as far as foreign policy goes, and I don't see that coming from either McCain or Obama.
I absolutely know that, which is why I find your support of Obama curious, since Israel/Palestine is your hot button issue.
I don't know if you're right about Obama being easier to lobby. Since he'll be considered a rookie, you can guarantee that he'll be surrounded by seasoned advisors.
It's not just the President... it's the entire system.
whenever either party talks about 'Creating Jobs'... do you know what those jobs are? Bridges to no where!!!
People get paid to design and build bridges... whether they are needed or not. And people get hired to drive cement trucks and weld rebar and paint stripes... creating jobs... where there were no jobs before.
Your tax dollars at work.
...
ADD: This is NOT and bash on Palin. I only used thie bridge as an example of pork barrelling (recently re-named 'Ear Marks) because everyone is familiar with it... today. Examples similar to this are done by Republicans and Democrats, alike... in every state of this nation.
...
CUT the WASTE... and you don't have to raise taxes.
Wasteful Wars can be classified as WASTE... so can grants to see if we can power television relay stations from the Northern Lights. WASTE. Get rid of it and we solve our own problems.
Hail, Hail!!!
Apology for misunderstanding.
One key thing, the current policy and policy to come aren't about one's individual bottom line. Honestly, I don't believe they ever have been due to the way things are structured. Though, I hear ya on this...
I wish it could be so simple, pulling out the troops. There is so much we don't know and so many exceptionally insane relational aspects as you mention further down. That being said, I wish/feel/think, fuck it, someone just do it, pull the plug at least partially and start getting those gents out of harms way.
They aren't saying what you would like to hear cuz unfortunately it is a complicated cluster fuck and they aren't thinking with that option in mind. Make sense? : )
I need to think on this further ... thanks though, I get what you are saying.
I like the thinking, knocking off the friends & enemies scenario. I'm all for it! Establish trading partners. At the moment, again, the stakes seem higher than we know, along with the intense relational aspects. To note as well, life is about relationships and the US has created itself as the super hero, which is now being sorely deflated. Balance is surely needed to where and when we can help! That is an understatement ... <cringe ... sorry if that's offense to anyone> (We need a major leadership overhaul ... sigh)
Again ... I need to think on this. I lean toward it being an asset.
Business isn't able to go on as usual with the current circumstances. We are entrenched in a senseless war. From all I've seen, read and experienced I see Obama being the far better foreign policy choice for what we have before us. McCain is of a military mindset and that is what we will get more of ... guarantee! : )
Thanks for taking the time & care to explain ... h&d
I wish, I wish, I wish ... I wish this war would stop. : )
Democrats tax the hell out of us
Republicans spend more than we have
Not taking a side, just stating the opinions.
Military personel don't pay taxes when they are deployed, and they will have made more money in six months then you and me in two years.
I'm voting for McCain
Good for you I hope your vote comes through.
Peace
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Thanks for the discussion. I appreciate your point of view, and agree with much of it. I just wish we had better choices in November.
Not in the State of Connecticut it won't. Hope you have more luck in your state.
Right back at ya! I too wish we had better choices for the upcoming November election. I really do. I must say I've never felt so ill at ease before an election. Granted the others were tough ... this one falls short by many milestones, and I am normally the ultimate optimist.
Bring your tax refund out to our car dealership or to our bank and get our special deal on financing on that new vehicle or downpayment on that new home.
Is this the tax money everyone is afraid to lose?
The money that makes people feel rich enough for a few days to buy that home or car that they really can't afford?
Seems to me that too many tax breaks are the crux of the problems we are experiencing now.
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/692/
With respect to estate taxes, if you're going to be affected, my compliments, because it means you are in the top 0.03% of all estates:
Obama proposes freezing the estate tax at 2009 levels: a 45% tax rate on estates valued at more than $3.5 million. Married couples can combine their exemptions for a total of $7 million.
"By exempting all estates under $7 million, Obama's plan will shield all but about 100 estates with small business income from any estate taxation," said Obama campaign spokesman Nick Shapiro, citing the Congressional Budget Office's 2005 study on the estate tax and further analysis by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. "Senator Obama's plan would completely exempt 99.7% of estates from taxation."
http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/06/smallbusiness/estate_tax.fsb/index.htm?postversion=2008080610
Do your research people. This notion of Obama taxing working class people more is a fallacy right out of the Republican handbook of half-truths and lies. It's simply not true.
Foreign Policy is the most important issue in this election and that is why the Republicans are trying to fool the weak minded with all of this talk of taxes. And no one is listening to Obama when he says that 95% of Americans will get a tax cut. 95%!!!!!!!
The other 5% won't miss the extra 5% or so that they have to pay in taxes. I don't care if that is considered wealth redistribution, the bottom line 95% of us will have more money to dump back into the economy.
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...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
and an increase in captial gains tax
we have to cut the fat and
when is the tea party? we pay more now than the colonists did
You have the entire thing completely ass backwards, and the government is happy about that. They hope everyone thinks like you do. You consider a tax break as something the government gives to you. You consider a refund something the government gives to you. WRONG! It is your money. They just decided not to use all of it. And refunds are the biggest scam for a different reason. You've given the government your money interest free when it should have been working for you. If you get big refund checks you're doing something wrong.
Too many tax breaks are the crux of the problem?!? Jesus Christ, I've heard some wacky shit in my time, and this one definitely goes into the wacky shit bin.
You seem very adamant about this. I dont know much about it...without a copy paste, what is the issue here? is it something that he will change? I've never heard Obamas position on this.
Yeah, but every election Republicans still trot out the over used "tax and spend liberal" label, which unfortunately still sticks in some peoples minds even if it is incorrect.
Kind of like how every 4 years Republicans scream that the Democratic candidate is gonna take your guns so they can get the redneck vote.
Basically, Obama plans to keep the estate tax as it is now, but he would not repeal the estate tax entirely, as was planned to make permanent by the Bush administration in their tax policy starting in the year 2010. What unsung didn't mention was that Senator McCain does not support a repeal of the estate tax either; he wants the estate tax to be 15%. The CNN money article above details it all pretty exhaustively. As usual, it's not as simple as "Obama wants to raise taxes, while McCain wants to cut them!"
One question I have, though; in the article, it says this, speaking about McCain's estate tax plan:
"McCain's plan would be a more dramatic departure from current policy. The Arizona Senator favors a 15% tax rate, equal to the capital-gains tax rate, and an individual exemption of $5 million ($10 million for married couples)."
What does that second part mean? "An individual exemption of $5 million." Does that refer to income, i.e. those who make over that amount would be exempt from the tax? I don't think it could be that simple, but I feel like I'm missing something obvious here. Someone better versed with this language, please help me out.
The exemption basically means that estates valued under $5 million are exempt from the estate tax, and for larger estates the tax kicks in above the exemption.
I'm generally opposed to estate taxes on the grounds that everything has already been taxed when it was owned by the original owner, wether we're talking about the property taxes they paid, the sales tax they paid to purchase items in the estate, excise taxes on value of vehicles in many states, various taxes on gains in investment accounts over the years as that part of the estate grew, and on and on. Everything in the estate has already been taxed, and then when it is probated the lucky recipient gets to allow the government to double-dip. On principle it is complete bullshit, but most people seem OK with it be for some reason (maybe because it doesn't affect them?).
i think he's referring to the soldiers who have died for this imperialistic war
in any case - at the end of the day, your average voter is pretty much ignorant of most things related to gov't ... it is why attack ads work in an election and fear mongering is so successful ... cuz most people eat that shit up ...
First, why do you have to go there, man? I just don't get that.
Second, taxes are important to me because the economy is important to me. The President has two ways he can alter the economy.... Fiscal (taxes and spending) and appointing Monetary Chair (Ben). I don't think Ben's leaving anytime soon, so the next President will control the economy through taxes and spending. If the economy is important to you, then that will be important to you.
I understand that people may think foreign policy is more important that the domestic economy. They are entitled to that opinion. I just don't agree with it right now.
Lastly, I'll be honest, I'm scared that if Obama gets in he'll throw a higher tax rate at those making $140K and up. I know he's saying he won't. But, that was Kerry's plan. And I, personally, think Obama will switch to that once elected. If he does, that will hit me and my wife hard and yes that will also piss me off because I already pay plenty.
Well, I can tell by your response here you have no real life experience with taxes. You must be a college student or kid. A tax break IS something the government gives to you. LOL
It's never simple to judge your refund when you own a home, have a second mortgage, have a family, or have interest bearing finances.
Most middle class and higher families don't file 1040ez they line item deductions to lower what they owe.
The more money you make, or the more property you own, OR the more money you owe, OR the more children you have etc. etc. etc.....can give you larger refunds....
They know it's their money to begin with. That's no revelation... and most people realize it's their money.... but that's not the point anyway...
The point is when these people get large refunds from numerous tax breaks when they file their taxes ... then only to turn around and be swayed by the financeers to make dumb financial moves ... only further make the problem worse financially....
Fair points, but if these are the ways that the President stabilizes the economy, how do you explain the sorry state of the economy that has been on a downward spiral for the past four to five years? I understand that some of it is beyond Bush's control, but much of it is due to his tax policy, and his unwillingness to cut spending. McCain, besides his talk of earmarks (which account for 16 billion dollars of the annual budget; we will spend more than that in Iraq over the course of the next two months), does not seem to be talking too much of spending, and when it is it's mostly talk. Also, how do you explain the pinch the middle class felt under Reagan, when a similar economic plan was introduced that had similar effects?
It seems that, for all the talk of Democratic policies from the Executive branch hurting the economic stability of the country, the economy thrived under the last Democratic eight-year run and stumbled during the two eight-year blocks of Republican leadership that bookended Clinton's two terms.