Taxes, taxes, taxes...

It's spending.
The difference is... Democrats are tax and spend... Republicans are don't tax and spend.
Both spend on wasteful things... Democrats spend it on poor people living in America... Republicans spend it on rich people in other countries.
The taxes are at sufficient levels... if we were to take Iraq out of the equation. But, if we take Iraq out of the equation... the Democrats would spend that same money on shit like education and health care. And people don't make money on education and health care... but, we... a few of us... can make a shitload from Iraq.
That's the difference.

jeffbr wrote:

Yup. And unfortunately neither of the two asshats running for president give a good goddam about cutting spending. So the only thing we can look at is their tax plans.

And _outlaw, I find it funny how you call on people to pay more attention to foreign policy, and throw your support behind a guy who is up Israel's ass. Just like neither have a spending reduction plan, neither have a plan for balance in the Middle East. Both will protect Israel at all costs.

I don't find the call on attention to foreign policy out of line at all. This frickin' war is causing all sorts of issues! Isn't anyone concerned about how this major issue is impacting our economy and our government?!

If the war wasn't happening we could focus on tax cuts and reducing spending with a bit more ease. That ain't the case.

Can you please share why you think Obama has his head up Israel's ass? Sorry if I have missed something, point me in the direction to better understand your view.

The situation is duly complicated. It seems it would take several strategists and diplomats to come up with a plan for the balance in the Middle East. The current administration is not about balance as it wants to take out Osama Bin Laden and so it seems military man McCain wants to as well. And who knows what else is driving the current administration ... oil, maybe?

It appears, everything is hard to tell for sure in this political arena, that Obama has a mind for peace. What is so wrong with this and maybe it is a good thing he has his so called head up Israels ass.


This war impacts taxes and our nation as a whole. How can we go on with business as usual when everything seems to be falling apart around us and the current and potentials want to continue on the war path.

There is a lot at stake than meets the eye ...

Greenspan: Country can't afford McCain's tax cuts
By GLEN JOHNSON – 2 days ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Alan Greenspan says the country can't afford tax cuts of the magnitude proposed by Republican presidential contender John McCain — at least not without a corresponding reduction in government spending.

"Unless we cut spending, no," the former Federal Reserve chairman said Friday when asked McCain's proposed tax cuts, pegged in some estimates at $3.3 trillion.

"I'm not in favor of financing tax cuts with borrowed money," Greenspan said during an interview with Bloomberg Television. "I always have tied tax cuts to spending."

_outlaw wrote:

I've criticized Obama's blind support for Israel A LOT... feel free to ask anyone on this forum to clarify that.

I absolutely know that, which is why I find your support of Obama curious, since Israel/Palestine is your hot button issue.

I don't know if you're right about Obama being easier to lobby. Since he'll be considered a rookie, you can guarantee that he'll be surrounded by seasoned advisors.

jeffbr wrote:

I didn't say calling attention to foreign policy was out of line. I agree that it is important. But for me, just as important is what an administration is going to do to my bottom line.

Apology for misunderstanding.

One key thing, the current policy and policy to come aren't about one's individual bottom line. Honestly, I don't believe they ever have been due to the way things are structured. Though, I hear ya on this...

jeffbr wrote:

I have said time and again that I wish we'd pull the troops out tomorrow. Not a measured withdrawal, but get them the hell out of harm's way as quickly as possible. Yes, that would take a tremendous bite out of current spending. But everyone keeps saying "think of what we could do with that money..." I don't hear people (like Obama or McCain) saying that this will enable us to reduce spending and lower everyone's tax burden.

I wish it could be so simple, pulling out the troops. There is so much we don't know and so many exceptionally insane relational aspects as you mention further down. That being said, I wish/feel/think, fuck it, someone just do it, pull the plug at least partially and start getting those gents out of harms way.

They aren't saying what you would like to hear cuz unfortunately it is a complicated cluster fuck and they aren't thinking with that option in mind. Make sense? : )

jeffbr wrote:

Absolutely. Here's what gives me that idea when he was speaking at an AIPAC meeting: "I will bring to the White House an unshakeable commitment to Israel's security. That starts with ensuring Israel's qualitative military advantage. "

I need to think on this further ... thanks though, I get what you are saying.

jeffbr wrote:

I agree with you that oil has been a driver. But I guess the complication is only a factor of one's objective in the region. A more simple approach would be to knock off the friends and enemies scenario we've created in the Middle East. If countries want to battle it out, have at it. Once they've battled it out, the winner can call us and we can establish a mutually beneficial trade agreement. I have no interest in creating friends and enemies. Only trading partners.

I like the thinking, knocking off the friends & enemies scenario. I'm all for it! Establish trading partners. At the moment, again, the stakes seem higher than we know, along with the intense relational aspects. To note as well, life is about relationships and the US has created itself as the super hero, which is now being sorely deflated. Balance is surely needed to where and when we can help! That is an understatement ... <cringe ... sorry if that's offense to anyone> (We need a major leadership overhaul ... sigh)

jeffbr wrote:

I believe he has more of a mind for peace than Bush/Cheney/McCain. But having his head up Israel's ass won't bring peace. It will only perpetuate the conflict we currently have with almost every other country in the Middle East.

Again ... I need to think on this. I lean toward it being an asset.

jeffbr wrote:

I agree and don't want to go on with business as usual. I want business to be drastically different as far as foreign policy goes, and I don't see that coming from either McCain or Obama.

Business isn't able to go on as usual with the current circumstances. We are entrenched in a senseless war. From all I've seen, read and experienced I see Obama being the far better foreign policy choice for what we have before us. McCain is of a military mindset and that is what we will get more of ... guarantee! : )

Thanks for taking the time & care to explain ... h&d

I wish, I wish, I wish ... I wish this war would stop. : )

_outlaw wrote:

Is this all people have to complain about Obama? fucking taxes?

you guys are scared about the SLIGHT possibility that he may raise them when our economy is already in shit. people are actually supporting McCain because they're scared about TAXES.

what the fuck. do you guys not realize that 4000 U.S. soldiers won't even be able to fucking pay taxes, let alone LIVE due to the current president (who happens to ALSO be a republican, like McCain) and his baseless wars.

to think people are sitting here complaining about taxes when we're on the verge of invading a third country, and things are getting worse than ever.

to those who think taxes are more important than foreign policy, I don't care if this gets me banned, but go fuck yourselves.

Military personel don't pay taxes when they are deployed, and they will have made more money in six months then you and me in two years.

I'm voting for McCain

heart&desire wrote:

Thanks for taking the time & care to explain ... h&d

I wish, I wish, I wish ... I wish this war would stop. : )

Thanks for the discussion. I appreciate your point of view, and agree with much of it. I just wish we had better choices in November.

Obama supports the estate tax, that alone is enough for him not to get my vote.

Over the last few years come tax season I can't help but notice the incentive programs the financeers are giving out for our tax refunds.
Bring your tax refund out to our car dealership or to our bank and get our special deal on financing on that new vehicle or downpayment on that new home.

Is this the tax money everyone is afraid to lose?

The money that makes people feel rich enough for a few days to buy that home or car that they really can't afford?

Seems to me that too many tax breaks are the crux of the problems we are experiencing now.

I agree with the OP on this one. We always have to pay taxes. That will never stop. I have owed on my taxes the last 2 years and I'm middle class so I don't want to hear any upper class people complain ok. The $600 the gov't wanted from me effected me a lot more and a lot longer then the 6K someone might have to pay off of there larger salary.

Foreign Policy is the most important issue in this election and that is why the Republicans are trying to fool the weak minded with all of this talk of taxes. And no one is listening to Obama when he says that 95% of Americans will get a tax cut. 95%!!!!!!!

The other 5% won't miss the extra 5% or so that they have to pay in taxes. I don't care if that is considered wealth redistribution, the bottom line 95% of us will have more money to dump back into the economy.

The Haves Havenot a Clue...