john roberts calls on U2 for a benefit concert for federal judges

2

Comments

  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    A lot of it has to do with the job market.

    Should I be a judge and get $162,000 a year?

    Or, should I scrap that and make double as a Law School Dean? Judges have a TON of work and Law School Deans don't do shit.

    Roberts' point is that we should give the judges an incentive to stay in the judiciary by making their salaries comparable to other jobs that they could get. If we don't, then the judges WILL leave the judiciary.

    If judges keep leaving the judiciary, this represents a problem for the independence of the judiciary. If a judge does not assume that she will be doing her job the rest of her life, there is a greater possibility that she might make decisions that are less independent.

    If a judge assumes they will work as a judge for the rest of their life (because the compensation is adequate), then they will be less apt to allow their decisions to be influenced by exterior forces.

    For example, if I am a judge and I plan on taking a job at a law school soon because the compensation is better, I owe less responsibility to my judgeship at that moment.

    Federal judgeships are meant to be long-term, career affairs. The constitution made them independent and life-term positions for this very reason: so the independence of the judiciary could be maintained. If they are no longer life-term positions, that independence is harmed.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    A lot of it has to do with the job market.

    Should I be a judge and get $162,000 a year?

    Or, should I scrap that and make double as a Law School Dean? Judges have a TON of work and Law School Deans don't do shit.

    Roberts' point is that we should give the judges an incentive to stay in the judiciary by making their salaries comparable to other jobs that they could get. If we don't, then the judges WILL leave the judiciary.

    If judges keep leaving the judiciary, this represents a problem for the independence of the judiciary. If a judge does not assume that she will be doing her job the rest of her life, there is a greater possibility that she might make decisions that are less independent.

    If a judge assumes they will work as a judge for the rest of their life (because the compensation is adequate), then they will be less apt to allow their decisions to be influenced by exterior forces.

    For example, if I am a judge and I plan on taking a job at a law school soon because the compensation is better, I owe less responsibility to my judgeship at that moment.

    Federal judgeships are meant to be long-term, career affairs. The constitution made them independent and life-term positions for this very reason: so the independence of the judiciary could be maintained. If they are no longer life-term positions, that independence is harmed.

    The way I see it is being a judge is a public service, just like being a police officer or fire fighter. You do the job because you want to serve in the best interest of the public not for the pay. If a judge wants to go off to the collegiate world or private sector so be it, but I don't think we need to pay judges more out of our tax dollars simply because other avenues offer more money. If that is the case we should start with our troops, police officers, fire fighters and then work our way up.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    miller8966 wrote:
    Thats really not alot of money for the amount of stress and work put in to such a high profile job.
    Stress levels? Are you serious?! It's the greatest gig in the world! They are like gods in their courtrooms ... what they say goes, period, end of story. The entire legal community kisses their asses. They have lifetime appointments, so they don't have to worry about pissing off the boss (they don't have one), getting relocated, their employer going out of business, losing clients, or much of anything else. As long as they don't commit any major felonies, the job is theirs for as long as they want it. They have virtually no work-related expenses. Federal judges have it made, and what they're being paid is plenty.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    miller8966 wrote:
    They do alot more work than someone who gets paid 7 dollars an hr.

    really...? how much "more work" do they do...?

    let's see, sitting in a black robe...ouch

    hear lawyers argue....oh, the back breaker that one is...

    they write a few paragraphs as to why they are for or against...damn, I can almost feel j-robs pain....
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Why do people complain about what others make? It's a free world. If you want to make what a federal judge makes then become one. If you're happy making what a ditch digger makes then become one. Why complain when someone wants more money for doing their job? We all want more money for doing our jobs. Why single out one person or profession?

    Same goes for people who complain about the profit that a company makes. If you want to pay your employees more then shut up and do it. I don't see the need to relentlessly call for others to pay their employees more. Yet then bitch when someone actually asks for more money.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    inmytree wrote:
    really...? how much "more work" do they do...?

    let's see, sitting in a black robe...ouch

    hear lawyers argue....oh, the back breaker that one is...

    they write a few paragraphs as to why they are for or against...damn, I can almost feel j-robs pain....
    There's more to it than that, but it's still one of the greatest jobs ever. That's not my guess based on observation either ... I know a few federal judges, and they tell me it's the greatest job ever.

    Seriously, how many people don't have a boss? Entertainers have to please their audience, political leaders have to please the voters, most workers have a manager over them, and the ones who don't answer to their customers and/or stockholders. Federal judges don't answer to anyone. They set the schedule, they make the rules, and everyone else falls into line.

    I don't have any problem with what they're paid, they deserve (most of them anyway) to be compensated in accordance with their knowledge and experience. But the claim that it has anything to do with the stress of the job is laughable.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    surferdude wrote:
    Why do people complain about what others make? It's a free world. If you want to make what a federal judge makes then become one. If you're happy making what a ditch digger makes then become one. Why complain when someone wants more money for doing their job? We all want more money for doing our jobs. Why single out one person or profession?

    Same goes for people who complain about the profit that a company makes. If you want to pay your employees more then shut up and do it. I don't see the need to relentlessly call for others to pay their employees more. Yet then bitch when someone actually asks for more money.

    Well it matters to me what a public official makes because I pay his/her salary.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    mammasan wrote:
    Well it matters to me what a public official makes because I pay his/her salary.
    It should also matter to you that you are getting the cream of the crop. I acknowledge the fact that people working for the public almost always take a bit of a pay hit compared to working in the private sector. How big a hit in salary do you think a person should be expected to take while it not affecting who applies for the position and turnover?

    Police and fireman don't really make more in the private sector. Judges do. Roberts brings upa a good point about judge independance and how pay affects that idea.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    Supreme Court judge - $162,000/year.
    Alex Rodriguez - $20,000,000.00/year.

    You can't tell me there isn't something wrong with this.
  • Ebizzie
    Ebizzie Posts: 240
    mammasan wrote:
    The way I see it is being a judge is a public service, just like being a police officer or fire fighter. You do the job because you want to serve in the best interest of the public not for the pay. If a judge wants to go off to the collegiate world or private sector so be it, but I don't think we need to pay judges more out of our tax dollars simply because other avenues offer more money. If that is the case we should start with our troops, police officers, fire fighters and then work our way up.

    I hope you aren't insinuating that troops, police, and fire fighters can be compared to federal judges. If so, that's just a horrible argument.
    "Worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains." -- Abraham Lincoln
  • Ebizzie
    Ebizzie Posts: 240
    qtegirl wrote:
    These are lifetime appointments because they cannot be removed from the bench (unless impeached) and do not have to face "reelection" every few years, which keeps them "independent".

    But they are free to leave office whenever they want. And I'm sure that ex-federal judge looks great in a resume. I'm sure that they'd be very valuable in private law firms because of the connections that they've made. I don't see how serving as a judge is a sacrifice. I think it would be a great job.


    I'm quite aware of how the judiciary appointments and commitments work. See corporatewhore's post on the next page, he gets across my point of continuity much clearer than I.
    "Worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains." -- Abraham Lincoln
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Ebizzie wrote:
    I hope you aren't insinuating that troops, police, and fire fighters can be compared to federal judges. If so, that's just a horrible argument.

    How is that a horrible arguement. Are all four not public servants. Don't all four serve a necessity in our country. I'm not saying that starting salary for a fire fighter should be equavalent to that of a federal judge but if we are going to start raising salaries of our public servants we should start with the three that I stated and not a judge who is bringing home a comfy salary.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    surferdude wrote:
    It should also matter to you that you are getting the cream of the crop. I acknowledge the fact that people working for the public almost always take a bit of a pay hit compared to working in the private sector. How big a hit in salary do you think a person should be expected to take while it not affecting who applies for the position and turnover?

    Police and fireman don't really make more in the private sector. Judges do. Roberts brings upa a good point about judge independance and how pay affects that idea.

    I understand that other avenues pay significantly more for a federal judge. My point is that if salaries are going to be evaluated we should also take a look at the salaries of our other public servants such as police officers, fire fighters, and troops. While the difference in pay between a federal judge and the dean at a law school is significant a federal judge is already making a comfortable salary. Your average police officer starts out at about $35,000 a year. That's the same for fire fighters and I believe our troops make even less than that. Now I don't think that their starting salaries should be $162,000 a year but they definetly need the pay raise more than someone making over $100,000 a year.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    cutback wrote:
    Supreme Court judge - $162,000/year.
    Alex Rodriguez - $20,000,000.00/year.

    You can't tell me there isn't something wrong with this.

    Professional athletes are so grossly over paid that it's ridiculous.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • nick1977
    nick1977 Posts: 327
    If you want the brightest and best lawyers to be the highest judge, then you will have to pay them at least that much.

    I guarantee you they could be making more money in private practice. Many of the law clerks for Supreme Court justicies are hired away by private firms and make more than their former boss.
  • miller8966
    miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    mammasan wrote:
    How is that a horrible arguement. Are all four not public servants. Don't all four serve a necessity in our country. I'm not saying that starting salary for a fire fighter should be equavalent to that of a federal judge but if we are going to start raising salaries of our public servants we should start with the three that I stated and not a judge who is bringing home a comfy salary.

    Federal judges are more educated than firemen and police officers. I honestly think they should make around 300,000.
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • miller8966
    miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    hippiemom wrote:
    Stress levels? Are you serious?! It's the greatest gig in the world! They are like gods in their courtrooms ... what they say goes, period, end of story. The entire legal community kisses their asses. They have lifetime appointments, so they don't have to worry about pissing off the boss (they don't have one), getting relocated, their employer going out of business, losing clients, or much of anything else. As long as they don't commit any major felonies, the job is theirs for as long as they want it. They have virtually no work-related expenses. Federal judges have it made, and what they're being paid is plenty.

    You have to be on drugs or something, to think that their is no stress with being a federal judge.
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    miller8966 wrote:
    You have to be on drugs or something, to think that their is no stress with being a federal judge.
    There's stress with everything. They deal with less stress than most people in other occupations.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    miller8966 wrote:
    Federal judges are more educated than firemen and police officers. I honestly think they should make around 300,000.

    I'm not comparing their level of education nor do I believe that they should make the same, but if any public servant need a salary raise it is the three I mentioned, not a federal judge.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • miller8966
    miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    hippiemom wrote:
    There's stress with everything. They deal with less stress than most people in other occupations.

    Most people in other occupations dont make the laws for millions of people.
    America...the greatest Country in the world.

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