The battle for Warmth and Cooling.....

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  • breakmarysfall
    breakmarysfall Posts: 368
    polaris wrote:
    why won't you answer the posts that put forth the scientific basis for climate change?

    we are well beyond the whether its real or not stage ... even that dumbass bush has acknowledged our impact ... you can post all the articles from op-ed pieces u want but the PR campaign to discredit climate change is just about dead ...

    the reality and the science has taken over ...


    yeah polaris, go!!!
    and gimme some more hope.

    great summary you put here....
    ...the PR campaign might be just about dead, but as we see so clearly here,
    all humans stand still and still do not enough to save at least some of our great life/ planet.

    ...but lets hope, and hey, there could be some chance by now,
    cause at least reality and science have taken over.... so there should be a solution to be found sooner or later.
    there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
    ...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
  • SundaySilence
    SundaySilence Posts: 537
    monkey spanker wrote:
    why is everything always blamed on oil? wars, global warming, economy..thats the biggest cop out ever.
    binauralsounds wrote:
    Here are a few articles I've had in my faves folder and wanted to share.. From what I've read here on the train and to what I've read elsewhere, I believe it all to be cyclical.

    The first two articles that you refer to as very good reads are from the Hudson Institure. The Hudson Institute is a conservative thinktank on the bankroll of ExxonMobil.
    binauralsounds wrote:
    Oceans Suddenly Cooled!
    http://www.cgfi.org/cgficommentary/sudden-cooling-of-world-oceans-revealed-by-new-research

    National Academy Flunks as Global Warming Referee
    http://www.cgfi.org/cgficommentary/national-academy-fails-global-warming-ref

    This next article is from an astology site:
    binauralsounds wrote:
    (From 1988) Global Cooling has begun!!
    http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf116/sf116p12.htm

    This next article distorts a study, then they include commentary by Dr Benny Peiser, from the International Policy Network, which is on ExxonMobil's bankroll.
    binauralsounds wrote:
    Battle against Global cooling
    http://www.breakfornews.com/articles/GlobalCooling.htm

    Here the author, Prof Bob Carter, is employed by the Tech Central Science Foundation, bankrolled by ExxonMobil.
    binauralsounds wrote:
    Global-warming alarmists intimidate dissenting scientists into silence
    http://www.citizenreviewonline.org/april2006/15/warming2.html

    This next article is an opinion piece from a republican state senator:
    binauralsounds wrote:
    There are ominous signs that the Earth's weather patterns have begun to change dramatically
    http://www.the-signal.com/?module=displaystory&story_id=32376&format=html
    binauralsounds wrote:
    Ice Age To Start In 50 Years
    http://www.russia-ic.com/news/show/2597/

    Good/Interesting interview with Dr. Fred Singer
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/warming/debate/singer.html
    Dr. Fred Singer is President of the The Science & Environmental Policy Project, which of course is funded by ExxonMobil. Also Dr Singer has served as a consultant to several oil companies. And he has worked in the EPA.

    This next one is an opinion piece cluttered with misleading statements and innaccurate conclusions.
    binauralsounds wrote:
    Climate of Fear: From Nuclear Winter to Global Warming
    http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5790

    Good read... this quote sounds like the moving train.. "Stated simply (and probably unfairly), [I think] conservatives do not believe that global warming exists (because they don't want it to exist) whereas liberals believe in global warming (because they want it to exist)".
    http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/aprilholladay/2006-08-07-global-warming-truth_x.htm

    EDITED:

    And this just in TONIGHT....

    Climate panel lowers global warming forecast...
    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20332352-601,00.html
    while this still states global warming exists, it does show that scientists everyday change their stance on the issue!! As I've tried to say over and over, it's cyclical and the scientists show this by changing their stance/predictions every few weeks/months/years!
    This last one is an incomplete brief pulled from a draft, certainly out of context. The author, and you, confuse tightening of an estimate with changing of a stance.
  • sourdough
    sourdough Posts: 579
    SundaySilence wrote:
    The first two articles that you refer to as very good reads are from the Hudson Institure. The Hudson Institute is a conservative thinktank on the bankroll of ExxonMobil.



    This next article is from an astology site:


    This next article distorts a study, then they include commentary by Dr Benny Peiser, from the International Policy Network, which is on ExxonMobil's bankroll.


    Here the author, Prof Bob Carter, is employed by the Tech Central Science Foundation, bankrolled by ExxonMobil.


    This next article is an opinion piece from a republican state senator:


    Dr. Fred Singer is President of the The Science & Environmental Policy Project, which of course is funded by ExxonMobil. Also Dr Singer has served as a consultant to several oil companies. And he has worked in the EPA.

    This next one is an opinion piece cluttered with misleading statements and innaccurate conclusions.

    This last one is an incomplete brief pulled from a draft, certainly out of context. The author, and you, confuse tightening of an estimate with changing of a stance.
    Well done... Clap, clap, clap...

    I actually tried to do this, but couldn't stomach getting through them all.
  • breakmarysfall
    breakmarysfall Posts: 368
    same here... thanks alot Sunday for that kind of work.

    yeah. lets make this threat spreading around, especially it is now so obvious that we indeed have to struggle a big PR agenda on that one.

    thanks, big times.
    there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
    ...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    SundaySilence wrote:
    The first two articles that you refer to as very good reads are from the Hudson Institure. The Hudson Institute is a conservative thinktank on the bankroll of ExxonMobil.



    This next article is from an astology site:


    This next article distorts a study, then they include commentary by Dr Benny Peiser, from the International Policy Network, which is on ExxonMobil's bankroll.


    Here the author, Prof Bob Carter, is employed by the Tech Central Science Foundation, bankrolled by ExxonMobil.


    This next article is an opinion piece from a republican state senator:


    Dr. Fred Singer is President of the The Science & Environmental Policy Project, which of course is funded by ExxonMobil. Also Dr Singer has served as a consultant to several oil companies. And he has worked in the EPA.

    This next one is an opinion piece cluttered with misleading statements and innaccurate conclusions.

    This last one is an incomplete brief pulled from a draft, certainly out of context. The author, and you, confuse tightening of an estimate with changing of a stance.
    *wild applause*
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    nothing silent about that post!!

    and how long before he puts another post without responding to this one? ...
  • Puck78
    Puck78 Posts: 737
    Working in the field, i add just few things:
    1. yes, there can be a cooling too. This can be related to the collapse of the ocean thermohaline circulation (THC). This is a vertical circulation in the ocean, to not be confused with the gulf stream that is instead a wind-driven surface horizontal circulation. The THC bring warm waters from the equator to the artic region. There it sinks and brings deep cold water back. It looks like that the THC is sinking further south. This can imply a cooling of the northern regions (due to the lack of warm equatiorial waters arriving there) and a warming of the equatorial regions. There's some different possible patterns/scenarios for this, so don't believe anyone that tell you that he knows the truth.
    2. there's a freshening of the artic ocean, as a result of the collapse of the THC, not as a result of polar cups melting.
    So, yes, there's a climate change going on also in the ocean, and this feedbacks in the atmosphere.

    PS: even if there's a climate change and it can be dangerous, i believe that al gore is an asshole when he says that climate change "is a worst threat than terrorism". Do you always need the word "terrorism", in the u.s.?
    www.amnesty.org
    www.amnesty.org.uk
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    monkey spanker wrote:
    why is everything always blamed on oil? wars, global warming, economy..thats the biggest cop out ever.

    If this is indeed a cop out, then please provide us with your view of the situation re:Global warming.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Puck78 wrote:
    PS: even if there's a climate change and it can be dangerous, i believe that al gore is an asshole when he says that climate change "is a worst threat than terrorism". Do you always need the word "terrorism", in the u.s.?

    This is a clear example of the danger of allowing politicians to be granted responsibility in matters of such global significance. Isn't it about time these swindling liars and muderers are consigned to a role in society, and the larger world, which doesn't exceed their actual purpose of being anchormen for the big corporations?
    Perhaps it will require a seismic shift ecologically to engender a parallel seismic shift in the way human beings govern themselves and allow themselves to be governed. Perhaps we are nearing a time when the philosophers of this world are given more respect and authority than businessmen?
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    Puck78 wrote:
    PS: even if there's a climate change and it can be dangerous, i believe that al gore is an asshole when he says that climate change "is a worst threat than terrorism". Do you always need the word "terrorism", in the u.s.?

    terror or terrorism is what is driving american policy now ... the war in iraq, afghanistan ... the focus on iran ... the patriot act ... the wiretapping ... everything is related to terrorism ... it is what allows this administration to continue to do what its done and been totally inactive as it relates to climate change ...

    so ... what gore is really saying is that there is a bigger crisis in front of us ... more than "terror" ...
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    polaris wrote:
    terror or terrorism is what is driving american policy now ... the war in iraq, afghanistan ... the focus on iran ... the patriot act ... the wiretapping ... everything is related to terrorism ... it is what allows this administration to continue to do what its done and been totally inactive as it relates to climate change ...

    so ... what gore is really saying is that there is a bigger crisis in front of us ... more than "terror" ...

    To speak of the danger of global warming and 'terrorism' - If we accept the current usage of this word, which means those acts of violence which are committed by 'them' against 'us' - is ludicrous. How can acts of terrorism be in any way equated with eclogical global catastrophe? As I said above, this is just the usual nonsense from blinkered, sef-interested politicians/busnessmen.

    As an aside, I wonder what people will regard as a bigger act of 'teerorism' in 100 years time - The attacks of 9/11 or the invasion of Iraq?
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    Byrnzie wrote:
    How can acts of terrorism be in any way equated with eclogical global catastrophe? As I said above, this is just the usual nonsense from blinkered, sef-interested politicians/busnessmen.

    As an aside, I wonder what people will regard as a bigger act of 'teerorism' in 100 years time - The attacks of 9/11 or the invasion of Iraq?

    i'm not sure if we're all on the same page ... i assumed puck was commenting about how "terrorism" is used in every context in america ...

    i'm not sure what you are referring to in your first question.
  • breakmarysfall
    breakmarysfall Posts: 368
    Puck78 wrote:
    PS: even if there's a climate change and it can be dangerous, i believe that al gore is an asshole when he says that climate change "is a worst threat than terrorism". Do you always need the word "terrorism", in the u.s.?


    ...can't say anything about Al Gore. Haven't seen the movie yet.
    and I am not American ;)

    I learned my lesson about climate change over the years and in complete
    by the documentary broadcast by arte (-german/french television) early this year...
    so I think this documentary sums up the current science up to date just like Al Gore's movie.
    to me, scary stuff.
    - so why he is an asshole? -

    and about Terror used as a word, again here are my 2cents:
    well, the news are soo covered with this word. all we think of is this extreme danger, but it goes beyond.
    I really do fear this threat ahead all around a hotter or cooler world.
    (but as the Spiegel pointed out so well in his last issue: we all seem to have become fully thrilled to live in fear).

    so, I believe too that the danger we face due to this man-made-climate change is bigger as the danger all around terror (- there could be a solution).
    but maybe Gore just used the word cause it always gets attention.
    ...just like here. :)

    in general I think it is tough to keep the overview around all those news and big news again.
    it is really a tough one to live in this information era and keep the overview.
    there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
    ...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
  • sourdough
    sourdough Posts: 579
    I don't take issue with that statement either. Yes, it is very bold, but the way terror is all over the news and is the key ingredient to making people scared, I think its a way of conveying the scale of the threat that is happening. Perhaps, instead of focussing so much of your countries resources/media attention etc on terror, perhaps if climate change is of a greater threat we should be talking and spending on this.

    Personally, I agree with him (surprise, surprise...). Globally, more deaths will be attributed to disasters, drought etc than terrorism by an order of magnitude. Furthermore, the ecological systems that we depend on for our survival are being abused, so I believe we are punishing ourselves or at least the lives of our children.
  • Pearl Jam and toast
    Pearl Jam and toast Posts: 4,475
    polaris wrote:
    why won't you answer the posts that put forth the scientific basis for climate change?

    we are well beyond the whether its real or not stage ... even that dumbass bush has acknowledged our impact ... you can post all the articles from op-ed pieces u want but the PR campaign to discredit climate change is just about dead ...

    the reality and the science has taken over ...
    I've tried and tried and tried but he'll just ignore it.

    I'd say some offensive things but i have reason to belive my actions my be being monitored by a certain moderator who doesn't like foul language :p

    But yeah.. give up. I'd stick to my accusation that he's just a parodic lightning rod for this kind of thing that gets a kick out of being yelled at but I think if he was he'd 'back up' his claims with 'science' like Mr. Colbert does for example.

    BTW I thought you left for good binauralsounds.... ?
    Come on pilgrim you know he loves you..

    http://www.wishlistfoundation.org

    Oh my, they dropped the leash.



    Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!

    "Make our day"
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    Pearl Jam and toast wrote:
    I've tried and tried and tried but he'll just ignore it.

    I'd say some offensive things but i have reason to belive my actions my be being monitored by a certain moderator who doesn't like foul language :p

    But yeah.. give up. I'd stick to my accusation that he's just a parodic lightning rod for this kind of thing that gets a kick out of being yelled at but I think if he was he'd 'back up' his claims with 'science' like Mr. Colbert does for example.

    BTW I thought you left for good binauralsounds.... ?

    ha!! ... keep it green and keep it clean!! ... :p
  • melodious
    melodious Posts: 1,719
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/09/060906-methane.html


    and if ya think that corps isn't already brewing up means for sustinance

    http://arstechnica.com/journals/science.ars/2005/11/7/1746


    take good care, all
    all insanity:
    a derivitive of nature.
    nature is god
    god is love
    love is light

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