A letter from Chomsky and others on the recent events in the Middle East

not only chomsky signed that letter, but other journalists that i admire more than him, like giuliana sgrena and, even more, naomi klein and harold pinter

Byrnzie wrote:

"Chomsky acknowledged that some of the mentions were marginal, understated and brief'".

Even worse, he knew that and still allowed himself (not just him, but also the other journalists) to write about it like valid fact. The thing is, too many people don't pay attention to "some of the mentions were marginal..." and take the rest of his words for granted. Look, none of you didn't even bother to dig into the source of that story, you just assumed its true and that's it.

*edit:

Byrnzie wrote:

The latest chapter of the conflict between Israel and Palestine began when Israeli forces abducted two civilians, a doctor and his brother, from Gaza. An incident scarcely reported anywhere, except in the Turkish press.

See? you're talking about it like a valid fact.

Puck78 wrote:

well, all of of us, common mortals, can just make theories about what really happened: truth is hidden in olmert's office

Oh, come on. Since when Chomsky is considered to be "a common mortal" (certainty not on this board)?

Puck78 wrote:

But it is clear to all of us is that a unproportionate response is going on

.

Yep, it is clear, and that's why things like that really bother me - they are pointless and only cause more tension in the mid-east.

Puck78 wrote:

I know what you mean, but if you look at the people that signed that article you will see that they're american, english, italian intellectuals... So I see it more as a criticism to their own governments, to not make any step to bring peace and justice in the israel/lebanon, but also israel/palestine problem. And if you look at the non-results of the rome conference of yesterday, you might agree with them.
Chomsky, Zinn, they're taken in consideration just between the anglosaxons (america, uk), so it will not create more tensions inside the middle east.

Instead I wanted to ask you: what's your opinion in the results (or non-results) of the rome conference of yesterday?

HUGE disappointment, and I don't know why. After all, I didn't expect anything to actually happen over there.

About Chomsky et al: most of "common" people who read these articals don't get it that way. They don't focus on the criticism to their own governments, the only thing they are taking out of it is the criticism upon "evil" Israel (as you can well see on this board). Criticism is blessed, don't get me wrong, but if you're missing the point of it then its either worth nothing, or can be very dangerous.

shiraz wrote:

About Chomsky et al: most of "common" people who read these articals don't get it that way. They don't focus on the criticism to their own governments, the only thing they are taking out of it is the criticism upon "evil" Israel (as you can well see on this board). Criticism is blessed, don't get me wrong, but if you're missing the point of it then its either worth nothing, or can be very dangerous.

I know what you mean. Sadly it's full of people without a critical mind, not able to separate the great things of a certain culture from the bad things involving their state. Like saying that all the americans are fascist because bush is fascist, like saying that all the russians are murderous because of the war in chechnya, like being anti-semitic for the actions of the israeli government.
But anyway, this might not stop criticism. Just people making critics should be ready to counter-fight people making stupid generalizations from their critics.

Byrnzie wrote:

So with what rigorous method do you analyse the information which is presented to you daily by the mainstream media Shiraz? I'd be very interested to know under what criteria you decide what is certified truth and what is not. Does the fact that the mainstream medie neglected to mention the 'alledged' kidnapping of the two Palestinians mean that the event can't therefore have happened, in your scheme of things?

All I'm saying is this event's circumstances are really blurry = maybe it is true or maybe it isn't, but most people tend to ignore the doubts and relate to the story as a valid fact. I mean - we should talk/discuss about it, but refer to it as what it really is: A blurry story.

IDF said they are terrorists, the father said they are not, Hamas said nothing to the press - go figure what really happened, who is right and if it really had something to do with Gilad Shalit (Well, since Hamas had to dig a VERY long tunnle in order to get to place where Gilad Shalit was, I'll ASSUME it has nothing to do with it - it takes more than 2 days to do such thing without anyone to notice you).

Puck78 wrote:

I quote myself to add: it is true also the opposite. Lack of criticism is allowing Olmert to do what he's doing. Right today he declared that the results of the Rome conference allow him to continue the offensive. And nobody really opposed him for the occupation (UN resolutions, yes, but without any following up)

shiraz wrote:

Criticism is blessed, don't get me wrong, but if you're missing the point of it then its either worth nothing, or can be very dangerous.

The Olmert thing = "worth nothing". At least In Israel the govt get's LOTS of criticism, but they still keep on doing what they want.

shiraz wrote:

Just an update: Our govt has just rejected the possibility of a massive ground operation (=increasing our activity in Lebanon), the induction of army reserve extra units to Lebanon and the possibility of fighting against Syria.

At least theoretically, those are positive news.

Shame those "theories" won't bring back the dozens slaughtered in Gaza and Lebanon overnight. But hey, who's counting, right?

By now I have read
power and terror post 9/11 by Chomsky + John Junkerman
and made up some conclusions myself.

I am not speakless anymore.

I first wrote or asked the question why we can’t sort things out just by diplomatic ways.

I found some reasons:

- Israel and the USA are pretty aggressive folks and follow some secret goals.
…so were we.

- USA and Israel still hang in the 80ies where people just trusted guns and weapons. The power of perfect killing by machines.
..But there are other ways to solve a conflict…. Feel the love generation

- The USA and its people are the superpower and once touched with the sugar in power, humans tend to stick with it as long as possible.
... It is just great to be the richest country on this planet and do what you are in the mood to (it is also nice to be one of the richest countries in Europe).
..just sad that we want the best only first for ourselves and our family, then for the neighbours and the own folks
where as the planet is round.

- We, the half of the planet that have an agreement (Capitalism+ consumerism) and get along kinda well, we do enjoy life.
…We have so much, have it all… education and information so we might think more and our brains may seem more advanced. It may be, because our urgent needs are fulfilled already (like food, water, sleep) … a good health and so much pleasures in life. We just are finally able to enjoy this existence on this wild planet fully, nearly without fear,
So of course we do not want to change but vote for the party that promises best to keep the high level of our living standard and let us have even more money and goods made out of plastic.

So Germany is silent, so is the rest of the rich circle, the powerful ones…
but maybe we have a reason. We here will just always support Israel cause we still feel so guilty and want to see them live happy, too.
...but can't we be happy all of us?

So we still love the American way… and so do I.
Thanks Mr. Chomsky


...hey hey there is plenty for all!