Clinton-McCain gas tax holiday slammed as bad idea
inmytree
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080430/pl_nm/usa_politics_gastax_economists_dc
Clinton-McCain gas tax holiday slammed as bad idea
By Alister Bull1 hour, 4 minutes ago
A gas tax holiday proposed by U.S. presidential hopefuls John McCain and Hillary Clinton is viewed as a bad idea by many economists and has drawn unexpected support for Clinton rival Barack Obama, who also is opposed.
"Score one for Obama," wrote Greg Mankiw, a former chairman of President George W. Bush's Council of Economic Advisers. "In light of the side effects associated with driving ... gasoline taxes should be higher than they are, not lower."
Republican McCain and Democrat Clinton, who is battling Obama for their party's nomination, both want to suspend the 18.4-cents-per-gallon federal gas tax during the peak summer driving months to ease the pain of soaring gas prices. The tax is used to fund the Highway Trust Fund that builds and maintains roads and bridges.
Economists said that since refineries cannot increase their supply of gasoline in the space of a few summer months, lower prices will just boost demand and the benefits will flow to oil companies, not consumers.
"You are just going to push up the price of gas by almost the size of the tax cut," said Eric Toder, a senior fellow at the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center in Washington.
Obama criticized the plan as pure politics and said the only way to lower the price of gas is to use less oil.
"It would last for three months and it would save you on average half a tank of gas, $25 to $30. That's what Senator Clinton and Senator McCain are proposing to deal with the gas crisis," he said on Tuesday in Winston-Salem, North Carolina.
"This isn't an idea designed to get you through the summer, it's an idea designed to get them through an election."
This stance has prompted Clinton to accuse him of being out of touch with ordinary Americans as she campaigns ahead of key presidential nomination contests in North Carolina and Indiana on May 6.
CLINTON AT THE PUMP
The New York senator was commuting to work in South Bend, Indiana, on Wednesday and planned to pump gas at a gas station to draw attention to her plan to suspend the gas tax on consumers and businesses.
"We will pay for it by imposing a windfall profits tax on the big oil companies," she said on Tuesday. "They sure can afford it. This is a big difference in this race. My opponent opposes giving consumers a break from the gas tax but I believe the American people are being squeezed pretty hard."
The cost of a gallon of gasoline has touched $4 in some parts of the country as oil prices nudge toward a record $120 per barrel, hammering drivers at a time when higher food prices and falling home values are already crimping U.S. consumers.
Many economists implicitly agreed with Obama and said the McCain-Clinton gas tax plan sent the wrong signal on energy efficiency and was at odds with their pledges to combat climate change by encouraging lower U.S. carbon emissions.
"I think it is a very bad idea," said Gilbert Metclaf, a economics professor at Tufts University currently working with the National Bureau of Economic Research.
"If we want people to invest in energy-saving cars, we need some assurance that the higher price paid for these cars is going to pay off through fuel savings," he said. "It is a very short-sighted, counterproductive proposal."
Economists also saw it is a poor way of getting money to the households that need it most and warned that it might end up in the cash tills of the oil companies.
"If you want to provide households tax relief, a direct rebate ... is more effective. Not all of the tax relief from a gas tax holiday will be passed on to consumers. Some will likely be kept by refiners," Mankiw said in an e-mail response.
New York Times columnist Paul Krugman was similarly underwhelmed: "It's Econ 101: the tax cut really goes to the oil companies," he wrote on his blog on Tuesday.
Clinton-McCain gas tax holiday slammed as bad idea
By Alister Bull1 hour, 4 minutes ago
A gas tax holiday proposed by U.S. presidential hopefuls John McCain and Hillary Clinton is viewed as a bad idea by many economists and has drawn unexpected support for Clinton rival Barack Obama, who also is opposed.
"Score one for Obama," wrote Greg Mankiw, a former chairman of President George W. Bush's Council of Economic Advisers. "In light of the side effects associated with driving ... gasoline taxes should be higher than they are, not lower."
Republican McCain and Democrat Clinton, who is battling Obama for their party's nomination, both want to suspend the 18.4-cents-per-gallon federal gas tax during the peak summer driving months to ease the pain of soaring gas prices. The tax is used to fund the Highway Trust Fund that builds and maintains roads and bridges.
Economists said that since refineries cannot increase their supply of gasoline in the space of a few summer months, lower prices will just boost demand and the benefits will flow to oil companies, not consumers.
"You are just going to push up the price of gas by almost the size of the tax cut," said Eric Toder, a senior fellow at the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center in Washington.
Obama criticized the plan as pure politics and said the only way to lower the price of gas is to use less oil.
"It would last for three months and it would save you on average half a tank of gas, $25 to $30. That's what Senator Clinton and Senator McCain are proposing to deal with the gas crisis," he said on Tuesday in Winston-Salem, North Carolina.
"This isn't an idea designed to get you through the summer, it's an idea designed to get them through an election."
This stance has prompted Clinton to accuse him of being out of touch with ordinary Americans as she campaigns ahead of key presidential nomination contests in North Carolina and Indiana on May 6.
CLINTON AT THE PUMP
The New York senator was commuting to work in South Bend, Indiana, on Wednesday and planned to pump gas at a gas station to draw attention to her plan to suspend the gas tax on consumers and businesses.
"We will pay for it by imposing a windfall profits tax on the big oil companies," she said on Tuesday. "They sure can afford it. This is a big difference in this race. My opponent opposes giving consumers a break from the gas tax but I believe the American people are being squeezed pretty hard."
The cost of a gallon of gasoline has touched $4 in some parts of the country as oil prices nudge toward a record $120 per barrel, hammering drivers at a time when higher food prices and falling home values are already crimping U.S. consumers.
Many economists implicitly agreed with Obama and said the McCain-Clinton gas tax plan sent the wrong signal on energy efficiency and was at odds with their pledges to combat climate change by encouraging lower U.S. carbon emissions.
"I think it is a very bad idea," said Gilbert Metclaf, a economics professor at Tufts University currently working with the National Bureau of Economic Research.
"If we want people to invest in energy-saving cars, we need some assurance that the higher price paid for these cars is going to pay off through fuel savings," he said. "It is a very short-sighted, counterproductive proposal."
Economists also saw it is a poor way of getting money to the households that need it most and warned that it might end up in the cash tills of the oil companies.
"If you want to provide households tax relief, a direct rebate ... is more effective. Not all of the tax relief from a gas tax holiday will be passed on to consumers. Some will likely be kept by refiners," Mankiw said in an e-mail response.
New York Times columnist Paul Krugman was similarly underwhelmed: "It's Econ 101: the tax cut really goes to the oil companies," he wrote on his blog on Tuesday.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
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damned if ya do, damned if you dont0
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lazymoon13 wrote:damned if ya do, damned if you dont
hmmm...
that's an interesting and mature response...0 -
inmytree wrote:hmmm...
that's an interesting and mature response...
what don't you understand about it? I'd be happy to clear it up for you0 -
Yeah, a stupid political move...
I'd love to see the actual drop in prices. The $18.5 cents per gallon tax would be removed, but I would bet a million dollars that prices at the pump wouldn't drop that much.My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln0 -
blackredyellow wrote:Yeah, a stupid political move...
I'd love to see the actual drop in prices. The $18.5 cents per gallon tax would be removed, but I would bet a million dollars that prices at the pump wouldn't drop that much.
well initially they'd drop 18.5 cents.0 -
First of all, can we stop saying the ".4" and lets just say $.19 for ease of computing, or say $.18, whatever...its a friggin penny. Seriously. How many gallons of gas does a typical tank hold? Something like 15 gallons? I'm a chick and I really have no idea, but lets say it's 15 gallons...
I fill up every other week because I have a short commute and I'm conserving anyway. So, this means when I fill up, I'll save a whopping $2.85 every time I fill up. WOO friggin HOO. Don't spend that $2.85 all at once, ok? Instead of spending $52. at the gas pump, I'll be spending $49. Either way you slice it, its $50 more or less. If you fill up every week, you'll save about $6.00. Over the summer if you fill up once a week, your total savings is about $70. Sure, that's nothing to sneeze at overall, but come on...you don't get that money all at once to actually feel the impact.
Lets not forget that typically in the summer months, gas prices go up anyway because of demand. So, lets say they drop the tax, I'd say in probably 2-3 weeks, we'd be paying that full price and probably beyond, again due to the typical increase. If the idea is that they are trying to help out during the summer months because we travel more in our cars to our family vacations...don't we fill up more often when we travel? So, still without the tax, you'll be driving more so paying for more gas anyway?
Then, bonus for us...after Labor day...they add the $.19 back on.
This whole thing is like puting a band aid on a gaping head wound and it is not solving the ultimate problem.
Man, this thing just pisses me off.
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so would you rather just pay the extra .18/19 cents a gallon in spite?0
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A gas tax holiday will do as much good for the American people as a economic stimulus will do...hardly any. Just a drop in the bucket.0
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ledvedderman wrote:A gas tax holiday will do as much good for the American people as a economic stimulus will do...hardly any. Just a drop in the bucket.
again, so you would rather pay it in spite? I'm really surprised to hear so many people bitch about this. me, I'll gladly take 19 cents off the price. if I drove.0 -
lazymoon13 wrote:again, so you would rather pay it in spite? I'm really surprised to hear so many people bitch about this. me, I'll gladly take 19 cents off the price. if I drove.
Yeah it would be nice, but I would know that it would go right up again. It's almost like sleeping with a supermodel who has the clap. It's cool at the time, but you'll pay for it eventually.0 -
lazymoon13 wrote:again, so you would rather pay it in spite? I'm really surprised to hear so many people bitch about this. me, I'll gladly take 19 cents off the price. if I drove.
The problem is, as some people already alluded to, is that demand would increase and within a relatively short period of time the price per gallon would be around what you where paying before the gas tax was deferred. Added to that would be the millions upon millions of dollars of tax revenue that is collected with the tax that is used to repair, maintain and build transportation infrastructure that would no longer be there. It's just as stupid as the stimulus package. Let's give millions of Americans a couple of hundred dollars, not really enough to change their financial standings or alieviate financial burden, and in the process dig our country further into debt."When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul0 -
mammasan wrote:The problem is, as some people already alluded to, is that demand would increase and within a relatively short period of time the price per gallon would be around what you where paying before the gas tax was deferred. Added to that would be the millions upon millions of dollars of tax revenue that is collected with the tax that is used to repair, maintain and build transportation infrastructure that would no longer be there. It's just as stupid as the stimulus package. Let's give millions of Americans a couple of hundred dollars, not really enough to change their financial standings or alieviate financial burden, and in the process dig our country further into debt.
im not so sure of that theory. people arent going to be lining up at the pumps just because gas went from 3.89 to 3.70.0 -
lazymoon13 wrote:so would you rather just pay the extra .18/19 cents a gallon in spite?
Yeah, at first glance, it sounds great. I'm just not a person that sees the benefit to a bunch of political smoke and mirrors to put $2-3 in my pocket every time I pull up to the gas pump.
Something that will effectively end in 3 months time. Ultimately resulting in a long term net benefit to me of, well...nothing.
and
that comment about sleeping with the supermodel who has the clap...very funny!
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ledvedderman wrote:Yeah it would be nice, but I would know that it would go right up again. It's almost like sleeping with a supermodel who has the clap. It's cool at the time, but you'll pay for it eventually.
lol nice.0 -
lazymoon13 wrote:im not so sure of that theory. people arent going to be lining up at the pumps just because gas went from 3.89 to 3.70.
Why not. I've seen long lines at gas stations that have prices that are only a few cents cheaper. Not to sound elitist but the majority of the population are like fucking lemmings. All it will take is for a few people in the neighborhood to get all pumped up about the drop and all the other drones will follow."When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul0 -
Any time a politician has a plan to allow we the people to keep more of our own money I support it without questioning their motives."I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/080
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mammasan wrote:Why not. I've seen long lines at gas stations that have prices that are only a few cents cheaper. Not to sound elitist but the majority of the population are like fucking lemmings. All it will take is for a few people in the neighborhood to get all pumped up about the drop and all the other drones will follow.
we'll agree to disagree. I don't think demand would spike that much any more then the normal summer driving spike.0 -
lazymoon13 wrote:we'll agree to disagree. I don't think demand would spike that much any more then the normal summer driving spike.
A near $.20 drop per gallon would definitely increase demand. Even if it doesn't the price would be back up to the pre-no tax price by the end of the summer and again millions, if not billions, of dollars would be missing that would be used for transportation infrastructure projects. To me it just seems like robbing from Peter to pay Paul."When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul0 -
mammasan wrote:To me it just seems like robbing from Peter to pay Paul.
That's already the nature of taxation. And I'm not a big fan of government sponsored behavior modification through taxation."I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/080 -
mammasan wrote:A near $.20 drop per gallon would definitely increase demand. Even if it doesn't the price would be back up to the pre-no tax price by the end of the summer and again millions, if not billions, of dollars would be missing that would be used for transportation infrastructure projects. To me it just seems like robbing from Peter to pay Paul.
again, I think prices are so high, a .19 drop is not going to spike demand that much. a little? sure. but not much.
lost revenue? yes thats a problem. but do you know where that money (this specific .19 tax) goes?0
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