Clinton-McCain gas tax holiday slammed as bad idea

2

Comments

  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,701
    Ugh...this stupidity just won't go away. Gas taxes absolutely should be removed, but not for a summer. It should be removed, permanently. Along with it should go oil company subsidies.

    Furthermore, every poitician who gives voice to the concept of "windfall tax" should first address the fact that the United States government has had it's own windfall of revenues via the gas tax.

    Any politician who supports any of this bullshit should be laughed out of town. Unfortunately, they keep being voted into office.
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Ugh...this stupidity just won't go away. Gas taxes absolutely should be removed, but not for a summer. It should be removed, permanently. Along with it should go oil company subsidies.

    Furthermore, every poitician who gives voice to the concept of "windfall tax" should first address the fact that the United States government has had it's own windfall of revenues via the gas tax.

    Any politician who supports any of this bullshit should be laughed out of town. Unfortunately, they keep being voted into office.

    So what do you think will happen if you did what you propose...lose the tax...cheapen the price...lose the subsides....up goes the price...back to square one...

    I must say from reading these articles on gas there are many people who here who have no clue (not pointing at you) about the oil industry.....I am not defending the industry just that the costs to make gas (which includes labour rates that are sky-rocketing, which is one of many reasons) is one of the main drivers for higher gas prices.....plus world wide demand is going up everyday (look east).

    If you want to here my proposition...I wish my country and my whore of a province would stop fucking supplying the USA/China as their primary customers and instead focus on developing refinery related jobs in Canada (which we are one of the top countries for oil has a natural resource) and treat Canadians as their first customers....therefore reducing our prices for our damn oil....America has been a leech for oil off my country, and China will surpass them as the primary leech within a decade, for far too long. It is a travesity that my gas prices are higher than those that cannot even support their own demand....pisses me right off.

    And do not even get me started when, countries not to be named here, come taking our fresh water, because their's is shit....
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    So what do you think will happen if you did what you propose...lose the tax...cheapen the price...lose the subsides....up goes the price...back to square one...

    I must say from reading these articles on gas there are many people who here who have no clue (not pointing at you) about the oil industry.....I am not defending the industry just that the costs to make gas (which includes labour rates that are sky-rocketing, which is one of many reasons) is one of the main drivers for higher gas prices.....plus world wide demand is going up everyday (look east).

    If you want to here my proposition...I wish my country and my whore of a province would stop fucking supplying the USA/China as their primary customers and instead focus on developing refinery related jobs in Canada (which we are one of the top countries for oil has a natural resource) and treat Canadians as their first customers....therefore reducing our prices for our damn oil....America has been a leech for oil off my country, and China will surpass them as the primary leech within a decade, for far too long. It is a travesity that my gas prices are higher than those that cannot even support their own demand....pisses me right off.

    dude, as an american I totally agree. if I were in your shoes I would be equally as pissed.
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    dude, as an american I totally agree. if I were in your shoes I would be equally as pissed.

    Its down right wrong....why should me and more importantly my fellow country-men have to pay more because some countries use more they can supply....it is so wrong....my posts are not to bash any country or it's people...it is hard for me to symapthize with people about gas prices when they are not even paying WHAT THEY SHOULD be paying for gas....America still has it good with prices, it is years of getting cheap foreign oil that has led to this spoiled behaviour....considering it cannot even produce what they need America still has it good......try living in a province with oil reserves seconding those of the Middle East and trying to justify why I pay more for gas than people down south....we have enough oil in this province alone to supply Canadian demand...I wish some corporation with a national conscious came around to revolutionize the industry to put their country first....do not fall for "Canadian-owned" oil companies slogans that promote their Canadian heritage....because they are whores to China....I will not name companies but there are many backing away from the USA as the number one client to make China their primary target....hence why American prices are going to rise even more dramitically in the coming years....
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,701
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    So what do you think will happen if you did what you propose...lose the tax...cheapen the price...lose the subsides....up goes the price...back to square one...

    No. Do what I propose and the price ends up being higher than it currently is, which is exactly where it should be.

    If you want to significantly lower the price of gas, just get rid of the taxes and the moratorium on drilling.
    I must say from reading these articles on gas there are many people who here who have no clue (not pointing at you) about the oil industry.....I am not defending the industry just that the costs to make gas (which includes labour rates that are sky-rocketing, which is one of many reasons) is one of the main drivers for higher gas prices.....plus world wide demand is going up everyday (look east).

    Absolutely! Wouldn't disagree there at all.
    If you want to here my proposition...I wish my country and my whore of a province would stop fucking supplying the USA/China as their primary customers and instead focus on developing refinery related jobs in Canada (which we are one of the top countries for oil has a natural resource) and treat Canadians as their first customers....therefore reducing our prices for our damn oil....America has been a leech for oil off my country, and China will surpass them as the primary leech within a decade, for far too long. It is a travesity that my gas prices are higher than those that cannot even support their own demand....pisses me right off.

    Let me see if I understand this. The US is a "leech", despite the fact we're paying you about $2,353,000,000 per day for oil? Are you really sure that you'd like to give up a chunk of that to save yourself a few bucks at the pump?
    And do not even get me started when, countries not to be named here, come taking our fresh water, because their's is shit....

    Ok.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    plus world wide demand is going up everyday (look east).


    Actually worldwide demand is leveling off. While demand may be on a steady rise in places like China and India. It is declining in other areas of the world to compensate for the increase. From 2005 to 2006 worldwide oil consumption increased by less than 2%. The same applies for the increase from 2006 to 2007. From 2007 to 2008 worldwide gas consumption increased by less than 1%. From January 2007 to January 2008 gas prices went from $50 a barrel to $100 dollar a barrel while the increase in consumption does not warrent that type of price increase. So this myth that gas prices are so high because of this huge increase in global consumption is just that a myth.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • SilverSeed
    SilverSeed Posts: 336
    mammasan wrote:
    A near $.20 drop per gallon would definitely increase demand. Even if it doesn't the price would be back up to the pre-no tax price by the end of the summer and again millions, if not billions, of dollars would be missing that would be used for transportation infrastructure projects. To me it just seems like robbing from Peter to pay Paul.

    Exactly, well put. I think it's a stupid idea...

    Did I read in the OP though, that McCain and Clinton are on one side of this and Obama and... BUSH (?) are on the other side? I mean I'd be ok if it were just McCain and Clinton on the same side, I'm pretty sure she's a repub anyway. But for Bush to be on the same side as Obama... well I feel like my head's going to explode. What could possibly be the explanation here? I don't see it as political posturing, surely this doesn't help McCain v. Obama, and with he and Hilldog being on the same side it makes it a moot point between them. Ahh I'm just gonna go look at that pic of Natalie Portman some more...
    When Jesus said "Love your enemies" he probably didn't mean kill them...

    "Sometimes I think I'd be better off dead. No, wait, not me, you." -Deep Toughts, Jack Handy
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    mammasan wrote:
    Actually worldwide demand is leveling off. While demand may be on a steady rise in places like China and India. It is declining in other areas of the world to compensate for the increase. From 2005 to 2006 worldwide oil consumption increased by less than 2%. The same applies for the increase from 2006 to 2007. From 2007 to 2008 worldwide gas consumption increased by less than 1%. From January 2007 to January 2008 gas prices went from $50 a barrel to $100 dollar a barrel while the increase in consumption does not warrent that type of price increase. So this myth that gas prices are so high because of this huge increase in global consumption is just that a myth.

    care to share where u got this info from?
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    farfromglorified wrote:
    No. Do what I propose and the price ends up being higher than it currently is, which is exactly where it should be.

    If you want to significantly lower the price of gas, just get rid of the taxes and the moratorium on drilling.



    Absolutely! Wouldn't disagree there at all.



    Let me see if I understand this. The US is a "leech", despite the fact we're paying you about $2,353,000,000 per day for oil? Are you really sure that you'd like to give up a chunk of that to save yourself a few bucks at the pump?



    Ok.

    How about you send us a discounted resource and we will sell it back to you at a premium price....then tell me how you feel about it then....trust me, from looking at your posts and economic savy (yes that is a compliment) if you were in my shoes that dollar figure would not be enough......
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,701
    mammasan wrote:
    Actually worldwide demand is leveling off.

    Worldwide demand will certainly slow in the face of $100/b prices, but it's not "leveling off". You can view historical data here:

    http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/ipsr/t46.xls

    Here's the year-to-year increase since 1987:

    1987 Average 2.08%
    1988 Average 2.96%
    1989 Average 1.71%
    1990 Average 0.91%
    1991 Average 0.90%
    1992 Average 0.28%
    1993 Average 0.20%
    1994 Average 1.87%
    1995 Average 1.75%
    1996 Average 2.23%
    1997 Average 2.44%
    1998 Average 0.86%
    1999 Average 2.24%
    2000 Average 1.32%
    2001 Average 0.97%
    2002 Average 0.82%
    2003 Average 2.02%
    2004 Average 3.42%
    2005 Average 1.61%
    2006 Average 1.33%
    2007 Average 0.97%
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    mammasan wrote:
    Actually worldwide demand is leveling off. While demand may be on a steady rise in places like China and India. It is declining in other areas of the world to compensate for the increase. From 2005 to 2006 worldwide oil consumption increased by less than 2%. The same applies for the increase from 2006 to 2007. From 2007 to 2008 worldwide gas consumption increased by less than 1%. From January 2007 to January 2008 gas prices went from $50 a barrel to $100 dollar a barrel while the increase in consumption does not warrent that type of price increase. So this myth that gas prices are so high because of this huge increase in global consumption is just that a myth.

    I think you under-estimate what China is doing to the prices...take steel for example it has gone through HUGE increases in cost due to the shortage caused by the modernizing of China....oil is going the same way....I do not know your source but I have to respectfully disagree with you....

    Plus you are under-estimating the costs of labour, refining, chemicals for refining, construction costs, drilling/completion/servicing, plant/field operator costs that all contrribute to a higher price with oil....if you are correct with the demand....you must look at these factors as well.....oil companies are popping up left and right and therefore demand for quality workers goes hence increasing the cost of final product....seriously I am not forgiving of the oil industry but costs to operate them have sky-rocketed over the past 10 years.....and that is fact....
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,701
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    How about you send us a discounted resource and we will sell it back to you at a premium price....then tell me how you feel about it then....trust me, from looking at your posts and economic savy (yes that is a compliment) if you were in my shoes that dollar figure would not be enough......

    Hehe...me thinks that instead of calling Americans "leeches", you might just try building a few more refineries. The same goes for us as well.
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Hehe...me thinks that instead of calling Americans "leeches", you might just try building a few more refineries. The same goes for us as well.

    Leech is a term and never was intended as being "personal" more a metaphor to describe how our oil is beign sucked from us from a nation that strives for more....more of my anger is towards Canadian business/government men who allow for this leeching to happen.....

    Dumb ass Canadian want to make the quick buck instead of the smart buck...trust me I am a proponet of more refineries...been sayingit for years....
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,701
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    Leech is a term and never was intended as being "personal" more a metaphor to describe how our oil is beign sucked from us from a nation that strives for more....more of my anger is towards Canadian business/government men who allow for this leeching to happen.....

    Dumb ass Canadian want to make the quick buck instead of the smart buck...trust me I am a proponet of more refineries...been sayingit for years....

    Ah...all's forgiven then. We have much the same problem here, in fact.
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Ah...all's forgiven then. We have much the same problem here, in fact.

    I am sure you do and I am sure that it also angers you.....
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    care to share where u got this info from?

    The US Energy Commission Report
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    mammasan wrote:
    The US Energy Commission Report

    cool, have a link?
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    I think you under-estimate what China is doing to the prices...take steel for example it has gone through HUGE increases in cost due to the shortage caused by the modernizing of China....oil is going the same way....I do not know your source but I have to respectfully disagree with you....

    Plus you are under-estimating the costs of labour, refining, chemicals for refining, construction costs, drilling/completion/servicing, plant/field operator costs that all contrribute to a higher price with oil....if you are correct with the demand....you must look at these factors as well.....oil companies are popping up left and right and therefore demand for quality workers goes hence increasing the cost of final product....seriously I am not forgiving of the oil industry but costs to operate them have sky-rocketed over the past 10 years.....and that is fact....

    I am sure that operating cost have risen dramatically. My post was to discredit the whole demand is driving the price. Demand is a contributing factor to the price of oil but by no means is it the driving force. Production cost and speculators play a major role in determining the price of oil.

    My source for the numbers I posted was a report by the US Energy Commission.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    cool, have a link?

    Farfromglorified posted a link to the same information.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    mammasan wrote:
    I am sure that operating cost have risen dramatically. My post was to discredit the whole demand is driving the price. Demand is a contributing factor to the price of oil but by no means is it the driving force. Production cost and speculators play a major role in determining the price of oil.

    My source for the numbers I posted was a report by the US Energy Commission.

    Yeah I see your point...but like I said do not discredit operating costs....take this for example in a span of three years the cost of welding increased 200% (needed for pipeline/facility/process vessel construction)....the average cost of drilling a deep oil well in my area increased by almost a million dollars in that same span....these trends go right through the industry.....some people under-estimate these factors immensly....but China is passing American for oil consumption...you have the American source but I know China's hunger is increasing at an alarming rate....wait until more oil companies start catering to China over our countries....prices will get worse.....

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