How to stop the war (the state of protest in 2007)

musicismylife78 · September 2007

I was politicized and radicalized in 2001. I participated in antiwar/anti afghanizstan invasion protests. I read up on war.

I participated in protests in 2002 after talk of a potential iraq war in the future. I participated in protests marches in 2003 when the Iraq war began. And I have participated in protests every year since.

It is my opinion, the war will not be stopped by protests. I along with 13 million others participated in the largest protest march in history, it was even memorialized in a Bright Eyes song. We all felt we were going to stop the war. After all, no WAR IN HISTORY had ever been protested en masse before it even began. I thought we were going to stop the war.

I am extremely upset at the lack of inventiveness and lack of invigoration the antiwar movement seems to be engaged in currently.

Lets face it, in 1968, a protest against vietnam was SHOCKING. It would get on the news. Now, people laugh at people carrying signs. Its not going to stop the war. Bush doesnt give a goddamn.

It is my opinion the antiwar movement, to stop the war MUST change tactics. To what, I dont know. But the war isnt over, and the majority of the population oppose it. Our tactics must change.

Whats sad to me is, one would think, that once it was clear holding "no more war" signs at our local federal building wasnt effective in stopping the war, one would think the movement would rethink things. This has not been the case.

I certainly wish that singing Imagine and I Aint Gonna Study War No More, was all it took to end the war and bring the soldiers home. But we tried that route. It hasnt ended the war and our soldiers are still dead and dying.

What will it take for the antiwar movement to wake up?

jlew24asu · September 2007

I can understand not supporting the war in Iraq, but how can you not support invading and destroying the taliban and al queda ? ya know, those crazy guys that attacked us first

DriftingByTheStorm · September 2007

The sad truth is the people have no recourse.
The government has finally managed to rape us of all such measures.

We used to have the ability to withold tax in protest.
Since the implementation of the income tax, they scammed us out of this right. Now employers take our money before we have a choice to consider withholding such funds.

We used to have the constiutional first ammendment right to "petition for a redress of grievances" ... the Declaration of Independence makes it clear that every single other grievance notwithstanding, the ultimate grievance was the king's simple refusal to respond to a redress of grievances. Our forefathers held it as their natural right to send letters of petition to their government and considered it an equal right that they receive a fair response. Our courts have recently ruled that we do NOT have this right.

:(

So,
what recourse DO we have?

Well.
You have the right to overthrow your government.

... i know ...
it's laughable.

:(

Vedd Hedd · September 2007

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

We used to have the ability to withold tax in protest.
Since the implementation of the income tax, they scammed us out of this right. Now employers take our money before we have a choice to consider withholding such funds.

That's not entirely true.

DriftingByTheStorm · September 2007

Vedd Hedd wrote:

That's not entirely true.

explica por favor.

RolandTD20Kdrummer · September 2007

jlew24asu wrote:

that attacked us first

..

jlew24asu · September 2007

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

..

right right right. al queda didnt attack us on 9/11. bush and cheney did. this place makes me sick

beachdweller · September 2007

Cheguevara6 wrote:

I was politicized and radicalized in 2001. I participated in antiwar/anti afghanizstan invasion protests. I read up on war.

I participated in protests in 2002 after talk of a potential iraq war in the future. I participated in protests marches in 2003 when the Iraq war began. And I have participated in protests every year since.

It is my opinion, the war will not be stopped by protests. I along with 13 million others participated in the largest protest march in history, it was even memorialized in a Bright Eyes song. We all felt we were going to stop the war. After all, no WAR IN HISTORY had ever been protested en masse before it even began. I thought we were going to stop the war.

I am extremely upset at the lack of inventiveness and lack of invigoration the antiwar movement seems to be engaged in currently.

Lets face it, in 1968, a protest against vietnam was SHOCKING. It would get on the news. Now, people laugh at people carrying signs. Its not going to stop the war. Bush doesnt give a goddamn.

It is my opinion the antiwar movement, to stop the war MUST change tactics. To what, I dont know. But the war isnt over, and the majority of the population oppose it. Our tactics must change.

Whats sad to me is, one would think, that once it was clear holding "no more war" signs at our local federal building wasnt effective in stopping the war, one would think the movement would rethink things. This has not been the case.

I certainly wish that singing Imagine and I Aint Gonna Study War No More, was all it took to end the war and bring the soldiers home. But we tried that route. It hasnt ended the war and our soldiers are still dead and dying.

What will it take for the antiwar movement to wake up?

I'm not shocked at all, we are a passive society in regards to the masses involvement in politics, the environment, and social issues unless it directly effects an individuals lives.

Cancer kills more Americans than any other thing in the U S, but you don't see citizens marching, writing their representatives, or it being a major issue in politics to get a cure and treatments for cancer.

If we can't mobilize for the number 1 killer, why would we for a war that effects so few Americans?

it's a sad statement this country, all the marketing of the greatest country doesn't translate into our actions...hmmm, seems a direct parellel to the way the Bush Administration does business.

Bu2 · September 2007

You remember that beautiful scene in Miracle on 34th Street when the postal workers all march into the courthouse with bag upon bag of letters to Santa? I think it would be awesome if everyone who is against this war were to write a letter to George Bush, to Dick Cheney, to Nancy Pelosi, to Harry Reid, and to their state senators all on one specific date, so that suddenly the White House et.al. are inundated with personal, handwritten letters asking that the war reach an end and our troops start coming home in large numbers.

I realize Bush, Cheney and the rest don't open their own mail, but their staff members would be the ones to suddenly receive a ton of mail over the course of one week and perhaps it would have some kind of "trickle up" effect.

I know of several people here in the pit who would be willing to write letters, and if they are like me they would quickly and easily get all their friends and family members who are of like mind to write letters as well. I don't know about the rest of you, but I frequently comment on the blog of my favorite candidate as well as Huffington Post. So I could spread the word there, and spread it to my Facebook friends as well. If a specific date were to be decided on beforehand, and everyone stuck with it, and did their best to advertise it by writing letters to their local papers as well.....who knows?

"You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one".

I'm sure someone here has a better idea, but if anyone is interested in working a snail mail campaign out with me, I'd be happy to head it up.

Peace,
Bu

Vedd Hedd · September 2007

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

explica por favor.

On your w2 you can simply add exemptions, and the fed govt will withhold less and less of your paycheck.

Bu2 · September 2007

Vedd Hedd wrote:

On your w2 you can simply add exemptions, and the fed govt will withhold less and less of your paycheck.

I usually end up getting money back from the Feds every year (which works out well because I always end up owing money to the State instead), but if I changed my exemptions I might actually owe money next year.

And instead of paying up on April 15, I could write a letter to the IRS telling them that I refuse to give money to a government who is wasting my taxpayer dollars on a war I don't believe in.

If everybody did it, it would get some notice.

g under p · September 2007

jlew24asu wrote:

right right right. al queda didnt attack us on 9/11. bush and cheney did. this place makes me sick

Al Qaeda did attack although mainly from Saudi Arabia. However let me get this straight, if Bush and Cheney said the Taliban and Al Qaeda were in Australia you would all be for going there and occupying that country. It just happens they chose Iraq which has many unmonitored oil reserves that we're licking our lips like jackals ready to pounce.

Wherever they say to attack we go Afghanistan...poppy fields that are still thriving.....Iraq...you know what.....Iran....you know what AGAIN.

Peace

beachdweller · September 2007

g under p wrote:

Al Qaeda did attack although mainly from Saudi Arabia. However let me get this straight, if Bush and Cheney said the Taliban and Al Qaeda were in Australia you would all be for going there and occupying that country. It just happens they chose Iraq which has many unmonitored oil reserves that we're licking our lips like jackals ready to pounce.

Wherever they say to attack we go Afghanistan...poppy fields that are still thriving.....Iraq...you know what.....Iran....you know what AGAIN.

Peace

actually Al Qaeda attached from the U S, so we should attack ourselves under there thinking :(

musicismylife78 · September 2007

i opposed the afghanistan invasion because I didnt feel bombing an ENTIRE country was a just cause. Afghanistan citizens didnt send the plane into the towers. Not even Afghanistan terrorists did. Osama and his band of terrorists arent of afghanistan race or whatever.

I felt it was absurb to bomb afghanistan. I knew that innocent civilians would bear the brunt of our guns and bombs, and that trying to root out terror is absurd.

I think racism should be erased of the face of the earth. But I am not naive enough to think that if I killed or bombed every white supremicist hideout, that that would end the problem. But thats what Bush told us back in 2001. That we could ERADICATE terrorism. Its preposterous on its face. To eradicate it we must look at the REASONS why it happened.

Osama isnt a hero of mine but he is smart. He didnt plan the attacks for NO REASON. He had reasons. He explained them eloquently in 1997 and 1998 to a TIME magazine reporter. He explained them against a few years later. He explained it AGAIN in speeches days after 9/11. And he has explained his reasons again and again since then.

I was opposed to the afghanistan war because I didnt feel having bombs rain down on civilians would address terrorism at all.

But back to my main point:

At a certain point though, we need to say, yes protests are important but are they effective? They worked for gandhi and MLK but MUST we ALWAYS use them at the exclusion of other tactics?

Can protests be used in conjunction with other tactics like monkeywrenching to stop the war?

I just feel like the real reason my generation isnt at the barricades IS NOT because of the lack of a draft, its because we all felt we could end the war. And 4 years later its not ending, and is nowhere near its end

DriftingByTheStorm · September 2007

Vedd Hedd wrote:

On your w2 you can simply add exemptions, and the fed govt will withhold less and less of your paycheck.

You do so under penalty of purgery.

Witholding your taxdollars is crime enough to get the government after you.
I don't need a "fradulent return" charge added to my court docket.

:(

musicismylife78 · September 2007

i too think tax evasion is a good idea.

The war is run not by funds provided by Bush, but by OUR tax dollars. If we dont pay, the war ends. Simple as that.

RolandTD20Kdrummer · September 2007

jlew24asu wrote:

right right right. al queda didnt attack us on 9/11. bush and cheney did. this place makes me sick

but you said "first".

jlew24asu · September 2007

g under p wrote:

Al Qaeda did attack although mainly from Saudi Arabia. However let me get this straight, if Bush and Cheney said the Taliban and Al Qaeda were in Australia you would all be for going there and occupying that country.

absolutely not. you know why? cuz they're not there

g under p wrote:

It just happens they chose Iraq which has many unmonitored oil reserves that we're licking our lips like jackals ready to pounce.

who said anything about Iraq. I'm talking about Afghanistan.

g under p wrote:

Wherever they say to attack we go Afghanistan...poppy fields that are still thriving

did we invade to stop poppy growth?

g under p wrote:

.....Iraq...you know what.....Iran....you know what AGAIN.

I dont support invading Iraq or Iran

RolandTD20Kdrummer · September 2007

I find it interesting the Taliban had essentially stomped out the poppy fields to the point that so few poppy fields remained that no opium was actually expected to be seen coming out of Afghanistan just prior to US invasion.

Interesting.

jlew24asu · September 2007

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I find it interesting the Taliban had essentially stomped out the poppy fields to the point that so few poppy fields remained that no opium was actually expected to be seen coming out of Afghanistan just prior to US invasion.

Interesting.

yea those taliban, good drug free people. hey what do you say me and you help get them back in power?

RolandTD20Kdrummer · September 2007

jlew24asu wrote:

yea those taliban, good drug free people. hey what do you say me and you help get them back in power?

Do they hate us for our freedom?

There certainly is a clash in ideologies when it comes down to religion. Jews and Christians v.s. the Muslims. It's like Oil and water. no pun intended, but the oil part is definitely part and parcel. America is a thirsty nation that has dried up (from an oil perspective). Don't misconstrue my intentions, we are neighbors after all.

Toss in a dash of overpopulation, and you get inevitable intolerance to the point that the room (i.e. the planet) is just not big enough for the two (or three) of them.

That's whats' going on.

However it all actually ..."needs to take place". It is, in fact, taking place. It's a multi-tiered battle of ideologies, opinions, and available resources.

Right now "getting along" is not on the table.... "all options" are on the table...all military options....meaning nukes. Supreme power.

That's the situation.

Here we are watching...so is everyone else (Russia, China, etc...)

How to stop the war (the state of protest in 2007)

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