How to stop the war (the state of protest in 2007)

musicismylife78musicismylife78 Posts: 6,116
edited September 2007 in A Moving Train
I was politicized and radicalized in 2001. I participated in antiwar/anti afghanizstan invasion protests. I read up on war.

I participated in protests in 2002 after talk of a potential iraq war in the future. I participated in protests marches in 2003 when the Iraq war began. And I have participated in protests every year since.

It is my opinion, the war will not be stopped by protests. I along with 13 million others participated in the largest protest march in history, it was even memorialized in a Bright Eyes song. We all felt we were going to stop the war. After all, no WAR IN HISTORY had ever been protested en masse before it even began. I thought we were going to stop the war.

I am extremely upset at the lack of inventiveness and lack of invigoration the antiwar movement seems to be engaged in currently.

Lets face it, in 1968, a protest against vietnam was SHOCKING. It would get on the news. Now, people laugh at people carrying signs. Its not going to stop the war. Bush doesnt give a goddamn.

It is my opinion the antiwar movement, to stop the war MUST change tactics. To what, I dont know. But the war isnt over, and the majority of the population oppose it. Our tactics must change.

Whats sad to me is, one would think, that once it was clear holding "no more war" signs at our local federal building wasnt effective in stopping the war, one would think the movement would rethink things. This has not been the case.

I certainly wish that singing Imagine and I Aint Gonna Study War No More, was all it took to end the war and bring the soldiers home. But we tried that route. It hasnt ended the war and our soldiers are still dead and dying.

What will it take for the antiwar movement to wake up?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    I can understand not supporting the war in Iraq, but how can you not support invading and destroying the taliban and al queda ? ya know, those crazy guys that attacked us first
  • The sad truth is the people have no recourse.
    The government has finally managed to rape us of all such measures.

    We used to have the ability to withold tax in protest.
    Since the implementation of the income tax, they scammed us out of this right. Now employers take our money before we have a choice to consider withholding such funds.

    We used to have the constiutional first ammendment right to "petition for a redress of grievances" ... the Declaration of Independence makes it clear that every single other grievance notwithstanding, the ultimate grievance was the king's simple refusal to respond to a redress of grievances. Our forefathers held it as their natural right to send letters of petition to their government and considered it an equal right that they receive a fair response. Our courts have recently ruled that we do NOT have this right.

    :(

    So,
    what recourse DO we have?

    Well.
    You have the right to overthrow your government.

    ... i know ...
    it's laughable.

    :(
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Vedd HeddVedd Hedd Posts: 4,606
    We used to have the ability to withold tax in protest.
    Since the implementation of the income tax, they scammed us out of this right. Now employers take our money before we have a choice to consider withholding such funds.


    That's not entirely true.
    Turn this anger into
    Nuclear fission
  • Vedd Hedd wrote:
    That's not entirely true.
    explica por favor.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    that attacked us first


    ..
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    ..

    right right right. al queda didnt attack us on 9/11. bush and cheney did. this place makes me sick
  • I was politicized and radicalized in 2001. I participated in antiwar/anti afghanizstan invasion protests. I read up on war.

    I participated in protests in 2002 after talk of a potential iraq war in the future. I participated in protests marches in 2003 when the Iraq war began. And I have participated in protests every year since.

    It is my opinion, the war will not be stopped by protests. I along with 13 million others participated in the largest protest march in history, it was even memorialized in a Bright Eyes song. We all felt we were going to stop the war. After all, no WAR IN HISTORY had ever been protested en masse before it even began. I thought we were going to stop the war.

    I am extremely upset at the lack of inventiveness and lack of invigoration the antiwar movement seems to be engaged in currently.

    Lets face it, in 1968, a protest against vietnam was SHOCKING. It would get on the news. Now, people laugh at people carrying signs. Its not going to stop the war. Bush doesnt give a goddamn.

    It is my opinion the antiwar movement, to stop the war MUST change tactics. To what, I dont know. But the war isnt over, and the majority of the population oppose it. Our tactics must change.

    Whats sad to me is, one would think, that once it was clear holding "no more war" signs at our local federal building wasnt effective in stopping the war, one would think the movement would rethink things. This has not been the case.

    I certainly wish that singing Imagine and I Aint Gonna Study War No More, was all it took to end the war and bring the soldiers home. But we tried that route. It hasnt ended the war and our soldiers are still dead and dying.

    What will it take for the antiwar movement to wake up?

    I'm not shocked at all, we are a passive society in regards to the masses involvement in politics, the environment, and social issues unless it directly effects an individuals lives.

    Cancer kills more Americans than any other thing in the U S, but you don't see citizens marching, writing their representatives, or it being a major issue in politics to get a cure and treatments for cancer.

    If we can't mobilize for the number 1 killer, why would we for a war that effects so few Americans?

    it's a sad statement this country, all the marketing of the greatest country doesn't translate into our actions...hmmm, seems a direct parellel to the way the Bush Administration does business.
    "Music, for me, was fucking heroin." eV (nothing Ed has said is more true for me personally than this quote)

    Stop by:
    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14678777351&ref=mf
  • Bu2Bu2 Posts: 1,693
    You remember that beautiful scene in Miracle on 34th Street when the postal workers all march into the courthouse with bag upon bag of letters to Santa? I think it would be awesome if everyone who is against this war were to write a letter to George Bush, to Dick Cheney, to Nancy Pelosi, to Harry Reid, and to their state senators all on one specific date, so that suddenly the White House et.al. are inundated with personal, handwritten letters asking that the war reach an end and our troops start coming home in large numbers.

    I realize Bush, Cheney and the rest don't open their own mail, but their staff members would be the ones to suddenly receive a ton of mail over the course of one week and perhaps it would have some kind of "trickle up" effect.

    I know of several people here in the pit who would be willing to write letters, and if they are like me they would quickly and easily get all their friends and family members who are of like mind to write letters as well. I don't know about the rest of you, but I frequently comment on the blog of my favorite candidate as well as Huffington Post. So I could spread the word there, and spread it to my Facebook friends as well. If a specific date were to be decided on beforehand, and everyone stuck with it, and did their best to advertise it by writing letters to their local papers as well.....who knows?

    "You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one".

    I'm sure someone here has a better idea, but if anyone is interested in working a snail mail campaign out with me, I'd be happy to head it up.

    Peace,
    Bu
    Feels Good Inc.
  • Vedd HeddVedd Hedd Posts: 4,606
    explica por favor.


    On your w2 you can simply add exemptions, and the fed govt will withhold less and less of your paycheck.
    Turn this anger into
    Nuclear fission
  • Bu2Bu2 Posts: 1,693
    Vedd Hedd wrote:
    On your w2 you can simply add exemptions, and the fed govt will withhold less and less of your paycheck.

    I usually end up getting money back from the Feds every year (which works out well because I always end up owing money to the State instead), but if I changed my exemptions I might actually owe money next year.

    And instead of paying up on April 15, I could write a letter to the IRS telling them that I refuse to give money to a government who is wasting my taxpayer dollars on a war I don't believe in.

    If everybody did it, it would get some notice.
    Feels Good Inc.
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    jlew24asu wrote:
    right right right. al queda didnt attack us on 9/11. bush and cheney did. this place makes me sick

    Al Qaeda did attack although mainly from Saudi Arabia. However let me get this straight, if Bush and Cheney said the Taliban and Al Qaeda were in Australia you would all be for going there and occupying that country. It just happens they chose Iraq which has many unmonitored oil reserves that we're licking our lips like jackals ready to pounce.

    Wherever they say to attack we go Afghanistan...poppy fields that are still thriving.....Iraq...you know what.....Iran....you know what AGAIN.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • g under p wrote:
    Al Qaeda did attack although mainly from Saudi Arabia. However let me get this straight, if Bush and Cheney said the Taliban and Al Qaeda were in Australia you would all be for going there and occupying that country. It just happens they chose Iraq which has many unmonitored oil reserves that we're licking our lips like jackals ready to pounce.

    Wherever they say to attack we go Afghanistan...poppy fields that are still thriving.....Iraq...you know what.....Iran....you know what AGAIN.

    Peace

    actually Al Qaeda attached from the U S, so we should attack ourselves under there thinking :(
    "Music, for me, was fucking heroin." eV (nothing Ed has said is more true for me personally than this quote)

    Stop by:
    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14678777351&ref=mf
  • i opposed the afghanistan invasion because I didnt feel bombing an ENTIRE country was a just cause. Afghanistan citizens didnt send the plane into the towers. Not even Afghanistan terrorists did. Osama and his band of terrorists arent of afghanistan race or whatever.

    I felt it was absurb to bomb afghanistan. I knew that innocent civilians would bear the brunt of our guns and bombs, and that trying to root out terror is absurd.

    I think racism should be erased of the face of the earth. But I am not naive enough to think that if I killed or bombed every white supremicist hideout, that that would end the problem. But thats what Bush told us back in 2001. That we could ERADICATE terrorism. Its preposterous on its face. To eradicate it we must look at the REASONS why it happened.

    Osama isnt a hero of mine but he is smart. He didnt plan the attacks for NO REASON. He had reasons. He explained them eloquently in 1997 and 1998 to a TIME magazine reporter. He explained them against a few years later. He explained it AGAIN in speeches days after 9/11. And he has explained his reasons again and again since then.

    I was opposed to the afghanistan war because I didnt feel having bombs rain down on civilians would address terrorism at all.

    But back to my main point:

    At a certain point though, we need to say, yes protests are important but are they effective? They worked for gandhi and MLK but MUST we ALWAYS use them at the exclusion of other tactics?

    Can protests be used in conjunction with other tactics like monkeywrenching to stop the war?

    I just feel like the real reason my generation isnt at the barricades IS NOT because of the lack of a draft, its because we all felt we could end the war. And 4 years later its not ending, and is nowhere near its end
  • Vedd Hedd wrote:
    On your w2 you can simply add exemptions, and the fed govt will withhold less and less of your paycheck.

    You do so under penalty of purgery.

    Witholding your taxdollars is crime enough to get the government after you.
    I don't need a "fradulent return" charge added to my court docket.

    :(
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • i too think tax evasion is a good idea.

    The war is run not by funds provided by Bush, but by OUR tax dollars. If we dont pay, the war ends. Simple as that.
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    right right right. al queda didnt attack us on 9/11. bush and cheney did. this place makes me sick


    but you said "first".
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    g under p wrote:
    Al Qaeda did attack although mainly from Saudi Arabia. However let me get this straight, if Bush and Cheney said the Taliban and Al Qaeda were in Australia you would all be for going there and occupying that country.
    absolutely not. you know why? cuz they're not there
    g under p wrote:
    It just happens they chose Iraq which has many unmonitored oil reserves that we're licking our lips like jackals ready to pounce.
    who said anything about Iraq. I'm talking about Afghanistan.
    g under p wrote:
    Wherever they say to attack we go Afghanistan...poppy fields that are still thriving
    did we invade to stop poppy growth? :confused:
    g under p wrote:
    .....Iraq...you know what.....Iran....you know what AGAIN.
    I dont support invading Iraq or Iran
  • I find it interesting the Taliban had essentially stomped out the poppy fields to the point that so few poppy fields remained that no opium was actually expected to be seen coming out of Afghanistan just prior to US invasion.

    Interesting.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    I find it interesting the Taliban had essentially stomped out the poppy fields to the point that so few poppy fields remained that no opium was actually expected to be seen coming out of Afghanistan just prior to US invasion.

    Interesting.

    yea those taliban, good drug free people. hey what do you say me and you help get them back in power?
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    yea those taliban, good drug free people. hey what do you say me and you help get them back in power?


    Do they hate us for our freedom?

    There certainly is a clash in ideologies when it comes down to religion. Jews and Christians v.s. the Muslims. It's like Oil and water. no pun intended, but the oil part is definitely part and parcel. America is a thirsty nation that has dried up (from an oil perspective). Don't misconstrue my intentions, we are neighbors after all.

    Toss in a dash of overpopulation, and you get inevitable intolerance to the point that the room (i.e. the planet) is just not big enough for the two (or three) of them.

    That's whats' going on.

    However it all actually ..."needs to take place". It is, in fact, taking place. It's a multi-tiered battle of ideologies, opinions, and available resources.

    Right now "getting along" is not on the table.... "all options" are on the table...all military options....meaning nukes. Supreme power.

    That's the situation.

    Here we are watching...so is everyone else (Russia, China, etc...)
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Do they hate us for our freedom?

    There certainly is a clash in ideologies when it comes down to religion. Jews and Christians v.s. the Muslims. It's like Oil and water. no pun intended, but the oil part is definitely part and parcel. America is a thirsty nation that has dried up (from an oil perspective). Don't misconstrue my intentions, we are neighbors after all.

    Toss in a dash of overpopulation, and you get inevitable intolerance to the point that the room (i.e. the planet) is just not big enough for the two (or three) of them.

    That's whats' going on.

    However it actually needs to take place. It is in fact taking place. It's a multi tiered battle of ideologies, opinions, and available resources.

    Right now "getting along" is not on the table.... "all options" are on the table...all military options....meaning nukes. Supreme power.

    That's the situation.

    Here we are watching...so is everyone else (Russia, China, etc...)

    I have no idea what this rant means. I mean really WTF is that all about??? :confused:

    taliban harbored el queda and osama bin laden in 2001. el queda attacked us so we attacked them back.

    but you dont believe any of that to be true.

    I swear talking to you is like a brick fucking wall.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    I'm starting to think you are some washed up stand up comic about 35 year old muslim guy with little or no life. am I close??
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    I have no idea what this rant means. I mean really WTF is that all about??? :confused:

    taliban harbored el queda and osama bin laden in 2001. el queda attacked us so we attacked them back.

    but you dont believe any of that to be true.

    I swear talking to you is like a brick fucking wall.

    I'm just telling you what's going on. No rant there my friend.

    Why do you think Russia is flexing arms and making claims to new resources with some military presence?

    They know what's going on. They have alert politicians who can see as well.

    The public masses are the only ones playing catch up to this game.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    I'm starting to think you are some washed up stand up comic about 35 year old muslim guy with little or no life. am I close??

    Who are you talking, or should I say trolling to?
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    I'm just telling you what's going on. No rant there my friend.

    Why do you think Russia is flexing arms and making claims to new resources with some military presence?

    They know what's going on. They have alert politicians who can see as well.

    The public masses are the only ones playing catch up to this game.

    you, Roland the Great, are telling me whats going on?? Roland buddy, you flexing in the mirror again? when are you going to realize there is more to the world then alex jones and youtube.
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    you, Roland the Great, are telling me whats going on?? Roland buddy, you flexing in the mirror again? when are you going to realize there is more to the world then alex jones and youtube.


    I knew I'd find you here again repeating yourself in desperation. Good luck with that.

    How history repeats...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    I knew I'd find you here again repeating yourself in desperation. Good luck with that.

    How history repeats...

    I tried reading you rant again. it makes no fucking sense. do you just make this shit up as you go along?

    sounds like you are trying to justify extreme islam's existence. america and the evil jews are not trying to get rid of muslims.

    youtube has fucked u up son. step away from the computer, leave mom's basement and go get laid.
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    I tried reading you rant again. it makes no fucking sense. do you just make this shit up as you go along?

    sounds like you are trying to justify extreme islam's existence. america and the evil jews are not trying to get rid of muslims.

    youtube has fucked u up son. step away from the computer, leave mom's basement and go get laid.

    Sorry but you're just one guys tired opinion at this point.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    yea those taliban, good drug free people. hey what do you say me and you help get them back in power?


    You know Jlkew, your comment(s) (in light of my post(s)) just made me think.

    If the Taliban effectively eliminated the poppy fields...where do you come up with the sarcastic comment: "taliban, good drug free people"? ....where are you getting it from?

    Obviously not from, growing, using, or selling poppy (heroin). So where do you base your assumption?
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    "The principle guiding my decisions on troop levels in Iraq is: return on success. The more successful we are, the more American troops can return home," said Bush.

    This is how President Bush would like the war to end. The soldiers better have success or you ain't coming home. Notice how he's now starting to give the impression success is happening in Iraq.

    Watch the media lap it all up. Check it here as Bush Unveils "Return To Success" Policy.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


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