Why Do Athiests

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  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    Binaural wrote:
    I haven't been on the board much in the past fews days and unfortunately have missed most of this disscussion so Ill just answer the question you posed (Ill read through the thread after work).
    From the moment I stepped into primary school I was told God was real, I went to mass every week, had to sing hyms, do confirmation, first holy communion etc, all well and good I suppose. But noone ever told me any differing opinions, noone ever gave me a choice, I was brainwashed as a child by religion and personally that disgusts me and I feel sick whenever someone tries to tell me religion is not forced upon anyone.
    Throughout history religion has been used as a tool for supression of free political thought, it was used to cement the powers of kings and queens, it was used to make men powerful and rich, it was used to perpetuate conflict and bloodshed. This was not just 200 years ago, it goes on today. Major Christian churches took a stance of non involvment in the African American slave trade, the chuch forbade the use of contraception resulting in the deaths of untold numbers of Africans from AIDS despite the fact that the Catholic church had and has shares in Durex. Priests in the Catholic church were allowed to fuck little boys and girls and their 'little indiscretions' were swept under the carpet and if things got bad they were simply moved to another parish. The age of consent in The Vatican is 12 years of age, and considering the history and nature of this branch of christianity I wouldn't ignore that. An Evangilist minister in a church in my city described the Tsunami disaster of recent as "Gods way of punishing non believers", a Televangelist in America said a similar thing about Hurricane Katrina being Gods way of stopping a Gay Pride parade due to take place in New Orleans 3 days after the hurricane. The bible is a sexist book that prtrays women as heathen, adulturous whores who were responsible for our expulsion from paradise. Religion has given us money hungry idiots like L. Ron fucking Hubbard.
    Religion throughout history up to the present day has shown itself to be a cancer on human existence. I do not deny that religion has the potential to be a positive force however for the reasons I have listed above and many many more I do not believe the good to outway the bad and I do not understand how any loving, sane, compassionate adult can ask me why I cannot just leave people to their beliefs and not be so angry.
    how you really feel.

    Very well written....so thought I'd bump it ....
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    well i read that 2000 year old book quite often and it has never made me see things that way.


    i must honestly say that coming from a catholic background and being in a christian atmosphere; i don't know any christian against gays. my mum is as catholic as you can be. going to church daily. she's all for gay marriages. the problem is; that in days past; parents tought thier children that it was wrong. because the majority of people were religious; you blame this on religion. why not? someone has to be the fall guy. and i only know a handful of gay people but they are all religious.
    i think those against religion will blame religion for everything they can.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    i take homosexuality like anything else. we humans like things in our kind of unique way. hell, there's guys that like whip cream on woman's titties cause it turns them on. others like dudes that dress like chicks but still claim they are "straight". others like threesomes and whatnot. as human beings there are different things that get men/women horny. speaking of which, consider pedophiles. men simply just get turned on with kids. i'm not defending them. if they molest a child i'm rooting for them to be put in jail. but think about it. are they sick? is it a sickness? i don't think so. i think it's just another sexual preference. a pedophile could be anyone. did you ever see the show of that dude who scammed these pedophiles into thinking they were kids on the internet? all kinds of dudes came up. a rabbi, a doctor, a priest, a 20 year old college kid. blacks, arabians, whites, hispanics. it's undiscriminized and you really can't label a pedophile. so i don't think it's a sickness. i'm willing to bet that if there is somekind of gene that makes gays gays it's probably similar to the gene that makes pedophiles pedophiles. just a thought though.


    you forgot to mention beastiality. if you claim to support one then you must support all. if not; you're only another hypoctite and your words just farts in the wind.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    onelongsong wrote:
    you forgot to mention beastiality. if you claim to support one then you must support all. if not; you're only another hypoctite and your words just farts in the wind.
    i don't support anything you old retarded man. i'm just making certain observations.

    but yeah, beastiality too. people get horny for ridiculous amount of reasons and that one too.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    hippiemom wrote:
    Sorry, I don't admit to discriminating against anyone. I couldn't care less if polygamy is legalized. I merely said I don't agree with the brand of logic people use to try and make the leap from gay marriage to polygamy as a civil rights issue.


    but they have. and evidently they've made good argument. every argument made for homosexuality can be made for polygamy. if you find one that doesn't apply (and isn't based on religion or discrimination) i'd really like to hear it.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    i don't support anything you old retarded man. i'm just making certain observations.

    but yeah, beastiality too. people get horny for ridiculous amount of reasons and that one too.

    in case you haven't noticed; i've been supporting you throughout the thread; which means you must be retarded too. but that is name calling and i don't support that. if making fun of my brain damage makes you feel superior; then make yourself feel better.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    i don't support anything you old retarded man. i'm just making certain observations.

    but yeah, beastiality too. people get horny for ridiculous amount of reasons and that one too.

    btw; i wasn't meaning you to mean you personally. i used the word as a generalization to mean anyone who supports gays.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    onelongsong wrote:
    in case you haven't noticed; i've been supporting you throughout the thread; which means you must be retarded too. but that is name calling and i don't support that. if making fun of my brain damage makes you feel superior; then make yourself feel better.
    well, i was just teasing you. why are people so sensitive? i'm sorry. but in this case you kinda did hurt my feelings too when you said that my words fart in the wind. people's sexual preference is irrelevant to me. so that's why i made that observation to show how much "sexual preferences" there are in the world today. and homosexuality is only but one of them. why do most christians feel that homosexuality is the worst and most degrading one? beats me.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    onelongsong wrote:
    btw; i wasn't meaning you to mean you personally. i used the word as a generalization to mean anyone who supports gays.
    well, i guess i completely misunderstood you. just like i'm misunderstanding you now. what do you mean by "i wasn't meaning you to mean you personally"?
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    i think i've mentioned this. i don't hate homosexuals (even though our streets rot because of them hahaha j/k i'm only kidding) i'm just being a dick, and i thought it was funny.

    it's indifferent to me. it's not my business what happens between the consent of two other beings.

    i don't judge either. i don't say whether it's good or whether it's bad. it's like "whatever" to me. i don't agree with that lifestyle but it's not my business.

    that's where i'm at. indifference. they say the opposite of love is indifference; but i really don't care what people do anymore. people lie; cheat; steal; and murder. that seems a wee bit more important than who or what a person sleeps with. i remember when mick jagger screwed a watermelon on stage. who bloody cares.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    onelongsong wrote:
    that's where i'm at. indifference. they say the opposite of love is indifference; but i really don't care what people do anymore. people lie; cheat; steal; and murder. that seems a wee bit more important than who or what a person sleeps with. i remember when mick jagger screwed a watermelon on stage. who bloody cares.
    well i don't think that the opposite of love is indifference. i mean, it ain't like i hate homosexuals. i love them and i respect them. it's the way it should be. my mother used to work for a gay couple and we got along very well with them. our beliefs were also irrelevant to them as their lifestyles were to us. we never propogated hatred towards them. and neither did they hate us even though they were indifferent about our beliefs. heck this was when my dad was an apostolic/pentecostal preacher! most would condemn my dad for doing such a thing... and they did.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    well, i was just teasing you. why are people so sensitive? i'm sorry. but in this case you kinda did hurt my feelings too when you said that my words fart in the wind. people's sexual preference is irrelevant to me. so that's why i made that observation to show how much "sexual preferences" there are in the world today. and homosexuality is only but one of them. why do most christians feel that homosexuality is the worst and most degrading one? beats me.

    "I" always means that person personally. "you" can mean you personally or it could mean anyone reading that supports an alternative lifestyle.

    i didn't mean to hurt your feelings and i'm sorry if i did. once again i meant that people that support one group should support all groups or they are discriminating and hypocrites. since you don't support anything; you are not a hypoctire nor are you discriminating. therefore the post had nothing to do with you.

    i was teasing a bit too to make a point. friends???
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    well i don't think that the opposite of love is indifference. i mean, it ain't like i hate homosexuals. i love them and i respect them. it's the way it should be. my mother used to work for a gay couple and we got along very well with them. our beliefs were also irrelevant to them as their lifestyles were to us. we never propogated hatred towards them. and neither did they hate us even though they were indifferent about our beliefs. heck this was when my dad was an apostolic/pentecostal preacher! most would condemn my dad for doing such a thing... and they did.

    some think the opposite of love is hate; but when you hate; you still acknowledge that person. you actually have emotion for that person even though the emotion is negative.
    with indifference; you really don't acknowledge thier existance.

    for example; if you hate gays; you will see one on the street and think something like "freakin rope suckers" but with indifference you pass them by without a thought.

    sorry all; not meaning to insult anyone. just making a point.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    onelongsong wrote:
    some think the opposite of love is hate; but when you hate; you still acknowledge that person. you actually have emotion for that person even though the emotion is negative.
    with indifference; you really don't acknowledge thier existance.

    for example; if you hate gays; you will see one on the street and think something like "freakin rope suckers" but with indifference you pass them by without a thought.

    sorry all; not meaning to insult anyone. just making a point.
    well the opposite of love isn't indifference in my mind. it doesn't flow well will my frame of thought. i love the person but his lifestyle preference is not important to me. just like my friends who are nerds and into computers, i'm still friends with them... even though i'm a super stud and super cool. or my friends who smoke weed even though i don't smoke it... i'm still friends with them and i love them too. but what they do is like whatever to me.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    sponger wrote:
    I have a few christian friends who have expressed pity over my lack of faith. They contend that I am missing out on something "wonderful" and so on. Of course, they don't go into how I might be morally corrupted or how I have a reservation in hell. They're my friends. They're not going to be rude about it.

    But, when all is said and done, I still can't help but feel sorry for them. For example, a christian friend of mine once said, "God accepts me and all of my faults." I think it's sad that she really believes she needs god to accept her. My response was that only she can accept herself. I don't think she will ever know what it's like to feel accepted as long as she is under the opinion that it is an action that can only be carried out by something other than herself. True acceptance is derived from within.

    For anyone who seeks peace of mind, religion is the most convenient route to take. And it is for that reason that so many people follow that route. But, if you ask me, it is a false route.

    So, if I'm angry at religion, I think it's because it has robbed so many people of any hope of grasping reality and the true essence of humanity. Religion is sort of a shortcut to that path. It's like a pair of "training wheels" so to speak. Because religion makes it possible for people to ride on the path of righteousness, few seem to question it. But, there comes a point on the path where the training wheels have to come off.

    I'm not saying that I ride a bicycle without training wheels. For christians and the like, those training wheels might be heaven and hell. For me, it's fines and jail time. It's all the same if you ask me.

    But, I think if society is going to keep moving forward, then it has to figure out a way to maintain its balance without the aforementioned crutches. Of course, what I'm talking about is anarchy. Our ultimate goal is to survive without needing a babysitter. I don't think government is bad at this point in time. As for as morals go, people in general ( and that includes myself) have a long, long way to go before we realize why wrong is wrong and right is right. One thing is for sure, however, and that's that religion will not be a factor in this ultimate state of self-awareness that I hope mankind eventually achieves.

    why do you feel that you should "save" everyone that believes. why feel sorry for them? if they are your friends why do you have condensending feelings towards them? everyone should seek peace of mind. and no matter what road leads them there; it is the right road for them. a good portion of this thread is about how atheists are insulted when someone of religion feels sorry for them. is this tit for tat or or are you as guilty as those you look down upon?

    if society is to move forward everyone must accept eachother. people are social beings and although we don't need "babysitters" we do need eachother.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    well the opposite of love isn't indifference in my mind. it doesn't flow well will my frame of thought. i love the person but his lifestyle preference is not important to me. just like my friends who are nerds and into computers, i'm still friends with them... even though i'm a super stud and super cool. or my friends who smoke weed even though i don't smoke it... i'm still friends with them and i love them too. but what they do is like whatever to me.


    and that's cool. we all think differently. that's what makes us unique. you are apathithetic to thier lifestyle; and not indifferent to them. that's my take on it anyway.
  • sponger
    sponger Posts: 3,159
    onelongsong wrote:
    why do you feel that you should "save" everyone that believes. why feel sorry for them? if they are your friends why do you have condensending feelings towards them? everyone should seek peace of mind. and no matter what road leads them there; it is the right road for them. a good portion of this thread is about how atheists are insulted when someone of religion feels sorry for them. is this tit for tat or or are you as guilty as those you look down upon?

    if society is to move forward everyone must accept eachother. people are social beings and although we don't need "babysitters" we do need eachother.

    Funny, I don't feel the need to "save" religious people. I don't know where you got that impression. Yes, I feel sorry for them. But, I also understand that people can change only when they want to. That is, you can lead a horse to water...

    Secondly, I don't know where you got the impression that I "condescend" my friends or anyone who is religious. Just because I don't agree with their views doesn't mean I think they are beneath me. If my views are different from yours, does that mean you think I am beneath you?

    Also, the original post of this thread asked why atheists are angry at the religious when the religious only feel sorry for atheists. My response to that was that my anger toward religion is not derived from the religious feeling sorry for atheists.

    Your last sentence is one that I agree with, but it just so happens that I see religion as actually preaching alienation as opposed to acceptance. I can get into why I think that if you feel like hearing it.

    Babysitters..... again...that's what heaven and hell are. They are extensions of fines, penalties, and jail time. What I mean by growing out of the babysitter stage is finding our intuitive sense of morality without needing spirituality, ultimate consequences...etc. That's what I mean by self-acceptance being derived from within rather than from, say, a god.
    reigning champion

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    onelongsong wrote:
    some think the opposite of love is hate; but when you hate; you still acknowledge that person. you actually have emotion for that person even though the emotion is negative.
    with indifference; you really don't acknowledge thier existance.

    for example; if you hate gays; you will see one on the street and think something like "freakin rope suckers" but with indifference you pass them by without a thought.

    sorry all; not meaning to insult anyone. just making a point.

    i always thought that saying was bullshit. love is strong positive emotion, hate is strong negative emotion. they are opposites. the opposite of apathy/indifference is empathy... a sympathetic concern, as opposed to an uncaring.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    What is inherently wrong with polygamy?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    What is inherently wrong with polygamy?


    i'm in an area where polygamy is popular. i divide it into two groups:
    1)cult polygamy
    2) individual polygamy

    i've seen bad things come from cult polygamy. like the young boys being thrown away so the elders can have the young girls. they also tell you who you can and can't marry.

    individual polygamy has produced better homes than any monogimus homes. when mum "A" is cooking and doing other chores; mum "B" is spending time with the kids. the children are always supervised and experience more of life than other homes where both parents are working (either outside of the home or just mum doing chores) and the children left in the care of an outsider.

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