Army Medic guilty of desertion

Posts: 976
edited March 2007 in A Moving Train
Just wanted to hear everyone's thoughts on this

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070306/ap_on_re_eu/war_objector

WUERZBURG, Germany - A U.S. Army medic who refused to return to Iraq because of his opposition to the war was convicted of desertion at his court martial Tuesday, and could face as long as seven years in prison.

Spc. Agustin Aguayo, whose case has been closely watched by American anti-war groups, opened the one-day proceeding on a U.S. base in Germany by admitting he intentionally avoided his deployment back to Iraq.

Aguayo has said in the past that he had refused to return to Iraq because he believes war is immoral, and that he could "no longer go down this path."

Though Aguayo only pleaded guilty to the lesser charge of being absent without leave, Judge Col. R. Peter Masterton sided with prosecutors in finding him guilty of the more severe charge of desertion. He also was found guilty of missing a troop deployment.

Masterton did not immediately issue a sentence, which can also include loss of pay, demotion to the lowest enlisted rank and a dishonorable discharge.

The 35-year-old with the 1st Infantry Division's 2nd Brigade Combat Team served a year as a combat medic in Saddam Hussein's hometown of Tikrit in 2004 after the military turned down his request to be considered a conscientious objector.

He then jumped out of a window of his base housing in Germany on Sept. 2 rather than be forced to ship out for a second tour and fled home to California.

He turned himself in to the military at California's Fort Irwin about three weeks later.

As his court martial opened, Aguayo admitted to the facts of the case in a short statement.

"I understand that the formation was to move ... to Iraq your honor," he told the judge in a quiet, wavering voice. "Yes, I deliberately stayed away from the movement. I knew that I wouldn't be making this movement."
Post edited by Unknown User on

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Comments

  • Posts: 10,118
    with a war that has gone on this long, of course you are going to find some who refuse to go back.
  • Posts: 2,222
    I understand he doesn't like war...so why did he enlist in the army? That is one of the possibilities when you sign up. If he was supposed to go and left his troops like he admitted, then he is a deserter. If he felt that strongly about it then I'm glad he stood up for that but he should be willing to pay the price for his actions.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • Posts: 5,700
    Welcome to contradictionville Mr. Aguayo....population, you.
  • Posts: 10,118
    chopitdown wrote:
    I understand he doesn't like war...so why did he enlist in the army?
    I have worked in IT for 5 years now. I am in the middle of deciding to change careers. not nearly the same but you get the point. people can change their minds about the path they choose
  • Posts: 832
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I have worked in IT for 5 years now. I am in the middle of deciding to change careers. not nearly the same but you get the point. people can change their minds about the path they choose

    Exactly. People's perspectives change all the time (hopefully). Perhaps this soldier is against this type of war but when he enlisted thought he would be fighting a different war (on terror, etc....).
    War is Peace
    Freedom is Slavery
    Ignorance is Strength
  • Posts: 8,066
    chopitdown wrote:
    I understand he doesn't like war...so why did he enlist in the army? That is one of the possibilities when you sign up. If he was supposed to go and left his troops like he admitted, then he is a deserter. If he felt that strongly about it then I'm glad he stood up for that but he should be willing to pay the price for his actions.

    Maybe it is like joining al-q and then finding out they want you to fly a plane?
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • Posts: 2,222
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I have worked in IT for 5 years now. I am in the middle of deciding to change careers. not nearly the same but you get the point. people can change their minds about the path they choose

    I know...and there are channels to go about doing that or consequences for not following the channels. Anyone can change their mind at any time, but they are not free from the reality / consequences of that choice.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • Posts: 5,700
    Rushlimbo wrote:
    Exactly. People's perspectives change all the time (hopefully). Perhaps this soldier is against this type of war but when he enlisted thought he would be fighting a different war (on terror, etc....).

    If your "perspective" is chaging all the time, perhaps you should refrain from signing contracts that state otherwise.
  • Posts: 2,222
    even flow? wrote:
    Maybe it is like joining al-q and then finding out they want you to fly a plane?

    if that were the case he'd be "free" to leave al-q then as well.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • Posts: 10,118
    farfromglorified wrote:
    If your "perspective" is chaging all the time, perhaps you should refrain from signing contracts that state otherwise.

    do people in the military sign contracts? I really dont know.

    impossible to avoid consequences when you sign the dotted line
  • Posts: 5,700
    jlew24asu wrote:
    do people in the military sign contracts? I really dont know.

    http://www.rethinkingschools.org/archive/19_03/military_enlistment.pdf
    impossible to avoid consequences when you sign the dotted line

    Yep.
  • Posts: 2,222
    jlew24asu wrote:
    do people in the military sign contracts? I really dont know.

    impossible to avoid consequences when you sign the dotted line

    http://usmilitary.about.com/library/pdf/enlistment.pdf

    minimum of 8 years service...unless discharged sooner 10.A
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • Posts: 10,118
    farfromglorified wrote:
    http://www.rethinkingschools.org/archive/19_03/military_enlistment.pdf


    o yea I knew this. he deserves what punishment he gets. although in this case, I have a feeling he would welcome such punishment to avoid going back to war. o well, in other countries you get the firing squad for deserting.
  • Posts: 5,700
    jlew24asu wrote:
    o yea I knew this. he deserves what punishment he gets. although in this case, I have a feeling he would welcome such punishment to avoid going back to war. o well, in other countries you get the firing squad for deserting.

    I agree. Personally, I think the Army should fully allow "conscientious" dissent without harsh punishment so long as the dissenters repay benefits they've received while in the Armed forces and forgo future benefits.
  • Posts: 4,931
    Why did they turn down his request?
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • Posts: 5,515
    farfromglorified wrote:
    I agree. Personally, I think the Army should fully allow "conscientious" dissent without harsh punishment so long as the dissenters repay benefits they've received while in the Armed forces and forgo future benefits.

    Even in the case of an illegal war? People keep forgetting that. This war is illegal.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Posts: 2,222
    gue_barium wrote:
    Even in the case of an illegal war? People keep forgetting that. This war is illegal.

    the government owns the soldiers. Your opinion regarding the legality of the war doesn't make it legal or illegal, people keep forgetting that as well.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • Posts: 5,515
    chopitdown wrote:
    the government owns the soldiers. Your opinion regarding the legality of the war doesn't make it legal or illegal, people keep forgetting that as well.

    It isn't an opinion, it is a fact. Also, even though I was in the Armed Forces, I certainly wasn't "owned" by the government.

    "The UN Charter outlines two grounds on which you can lawfully engage in armed conflict – one is article 42 of the charter which says that you act together with other states once that action has been explicitly authorized by the United Nations Security Council. That didn't happen in the case of Iraq.

    The other provision is article 51 of the UN Charter, which is about self defence. That didn't apply in the case of Iraq either."
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Posts: 5,700
    gue_barium wrote:
    Even in the case of an illegal war? People keep forgetting that. This war is illegal.

    There's no such thing as an "illegal war". It makes no sense. I'm totally in agreement with this guy that this is an immoral war, but illegal? Sorry, that just doesn't work.

    Regardless, this guy signed away his right to have moral qualms about things. If he wants to desert, so be it and I applaud his decision. But he must own up to his obligations.
  • Posts: 832
    farfromglorified wrote:
    If your "perspective" is chaging all the time, perhaps you should refrain from signing contracts that state otherwise.

    If you want mindless drones in our society then that is your opinion and I respect it. I like to think the men and women in our armed forces use their intelligence.
    War is Peace
    Freedom is Slavery
    Ignorance is Strength

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