Gun remark makes outdoorsman an outcast

Scubascott · March 2007

onelongsong wrote:

what's to tell? an elderly woman stepped out of her camper as i was walking by and there was a rattlesnake at the base of her steps. it was moving along but she was about to step on it so i shot it. what's so hard to understand? it's hours to the nearest hospital so a helecopter would have to be called. it would still take an hour each way. the next was a young child who saw the tail and went to pick it up. the next was a young man in his early 20's who was moving some wood around and a rattlesnake came out from behind and he didn't see it. then there was a wonam in her 40's who was walking and not paying attention. she came up on the snake and froze. the snake sat coiled long enough for me to shoot it. lastly was me. i was in the greenhouse watering when i looked down and a small rattlesnake was at my feet. if it wasn't cold that morning he would have bit me by the time i saw him. at that time i was alone without a vehicle.
now knowing you have some of the most poisonous snakes in austrailia; why can't you understand how killing a poisonous snake at your feet would save you? especially in the outback where help is far away?

So let me see if I have this right. You almost shot a woman's foot off in order to 'save her life'? Then you fired your gun in close proximity to a child?

You are a lunatic. I've been no more than six inches away from a rattlesnake in california on a very warm night, and it made absolutely no attempt to bite me. I have a very good appreciation for the dangers of venomous snakes. The area that I grew up in is home to three of the top ten most venomous snakes in the world. What I know about snakes is that they will very rarely attempt to bite you unless they feel threatened. The only snake that has ever tried to bit me was a carpet python, and that was only because I grabbed its tail.

I'm glad that shooting small animals makes you feel masculine and heroic. I'd suggest however, that you'd be a much braver man if you learnt to overcome your obvious fear of snakes, and found out how to handle then in ways that don't involve killing them needlessly.

know1 · March 2007

Jeanie wrote:

So you don't have self defense laws where you are?

How is defending yourself against an attacker hypocritical?

And please explain to me how you know with a certainty that you will never kill anyone? Psychic are we?

I'm not saying that you will and I'm all for being a pacifist as much as is practical, but the fact remains that people inflict serious harm on other people for shitty things like wallets and the like. Have you ever been in a situation where your life was threatened? And repeatedly? If you have I'm happy for you that you were able to come out of it with your life, sanity and ideals still intact. But if you haven't then might I suggest that you acknowledge unless you have been in the situation you may have no idea how you'd react or what you would do. And everybody acts differently at different times anyway, so what you think you might do and what you actually do are probably two different things. AND what you might do the first time your life is in danger could be very different to what you do the second time.

Not criticizing you, but I really think you need to try to see all points of view in the arguement and stop judging people, as that is what is seems you are doing to me.

I do not know if there are self-defense laws here.

I do know for certain that my wallet isn't worth killing someone over. That's all I've said. If someone's taking your wallet, it's not necessarily self defense, you know?

I never said that I knew for certain I wouldn't kill someone. Not sure where you got that one.

onelongsong · March 2007

Scubascott wrote:

So let me see if I have this right. You almost shot a woman's foot off in order to 'save her life'? Then you fired your gun in close proximity to a child?

You are a lunatic. I've been no more than six inches away from a rattlesnake in california on a very warm night, and it made absolutely no attempt to bite me. I have a very good appreciation for the dangers of venomous snakes. The area that I grew up in is home to three of the top ten most venomous snakes in the world. What I know about snakes is that they will very rarely attempt to bite you unless they feel threatened. The only snake that has ever tried to bit me was a carpet python, and that was only because I grabbed its tail.

I'm glad that shooting small animals makes you feel masculine and heroic. I'd suggest however, that you'd be a much braver man if you learnt to overcome your obvious fear of snakes, and found out how to handle then in ways that don't involve killing them needlessly.

stepping on a snake or grabbing it's tail will cause it to strike. i don't miss so the womans foot was never in danger; however; with her medical condition she would have survived a shot in the foot but not the snake bite.
again; you are trying to compare different cultures and justify your opinion as correct. it won't work. to someone living in NYC life is completely different than someone living in casper WY; and; someone living in the vast wilderness of the west. so you don't like the way we live here? boo hoo. get over it. you obviously don't understand the conditions or the lifestyle here. we don't have law here as you know it. or as someone in NYC knows it. you may have to protect your children from the neighbourhood bully but we have to protect ours from mountain lions. it may seem ok to you to let poisonous snakes roam where children play but would you feel the same if the nearest medical attention is at best 3 hours away? and even then the anti-venom has to be flown in; and that's IF the snake was identified. anti-venom for the mohave rattler must be administered within 11 minutes.
although i respect your opinion; i also realize you don't know what your talking about when you try to compare conditions here with yours.

onelongsong · March 2007

know1 wrote:

I do not know if there are self-defense laws here.

I do know for certain that my wallet isn't worth killing someone over. That's all I've said. If someone's taking your wallet, it's not necessarily self defense, you know?

I never said that I knew for certain I wouldn't kill someone. Not sure where you got that one.

i'm not sure where this wallet came from; but where do you draw the line? would you sit idly by and let someone rape your daughter in your idealism to give them what they want and allow them to go on to victimize another person? would you give your child to a preditor to avoid confrontation? are you saying that if i had a weapon i should be able to walk down the street and collect everyone's wallets and purses without anyone resisting because giving me what i want is the proper behavior?
sounds like a bunch of guttless wonders talking to me. no wonder you have crime. in our town of 3000 people; the biggest crime last year was a barking dog. we have 1 cop that only tickets speeding tourists.
you get what you accept. if you're going to accept crime you will have crime.

know1 · March 2007

onelongsong wrote:

i'm not sure where this wallet came from; but where do you draw the line? would you sit idly by and let someone rape your daughter in your idealism to give them what they want and allow them to go on to victimize another person? would you give your child to a preditor to avoid confrontation? are you saying that if i had a weapon i should be able to walk down the street and collect everyone's wallets and purses without anyone resisting because giving me what i want is the proper behavior?
sounds like a bunch of guttless wonders talking to me. no wonder you have crime. in our town of 3000 people; the biggest crime last year was a barking dog. we have 1 cop that only tickets speeding tourists.
you get what you accept. if you're going to accept crime you will have crime.

There's a long way from a wallet to letting someone rape your daughter. Of course I would try to stop that...just like I would try to stop my wallet from being stolen. I would not try to kill someone because I do not believe in it.

You're just being plain silly to take what I've said and translate that into letting people walk down the street and collect wallets.

Again, I'm not accepting crime. I have a very harsh view of criminals. But you can not accept crime in other ways than just taking the law into your own hands and shooting someone over a few dollars.

onelongsong · March 2007

know1 wrote:

There's a long way from a wallet to letting someone rape your daughter. Of course I would try to stop that...just like I would try to stop my wallet from being stolen. I would not try to kill someone because I do not believe in it.

You're just being plain silly to take what I've said and translate that into letting people walk down the street and collect wallets.

Again, I'm not accepting crime. I have a very harsh view of criminals. But you can not accept crime in other ways than just taking the law into your own hands and shooting someone over a few dollars.

here's where you misunderstand. i never said over a few dollars. i said attacked. this means being confronted with a weapon. when a weapon is used it doesn't matter what they want. i guess you have to be held at gunpoint to understand. prior to that i wouldn't even carry a pocket knife. i considered it a weapon of war and i wouldn't carry it. it was principles.

on the other hand; i still help the poor; work with disadvantaged children and let them come to the ranch for the experience. i donate greatly to humanitarian causes and my main work is nutritional reasearch. i sell wholesale to native americans and senior citizens. i sell the best quality meat cheaper than anyone else either on the internet or locally. i would never intentionally hurt anyone and entered politics when i found we were not represented because we were paying taxes but didn't have roads; emergency medical services; schools; law enforcement; or any of the other services we were paying for. we don't have the grid so anyone wanting electricity has to go solar. phones are not available. if you have a cell; signal is almost nothing and you usually have to climb to a high spot to get signal.

so all in all; i'm not a bad person. we've learned to govern ourselves and enjoy a happy; crime free life apart from the rat race and world events that won't and probably never will effect us. except global warming of course.
so to condemn a society that not only works but thrives in happiness and pristine surroundings; cannot be right.

know1 · March 2007

onelongsong wrote:

here's where you misunderstand. i never said over a few dollars. i said attacked. this means being confronted with a weapon. when a weapon is used it doesn't matter what they want. i guess you have to be held at gunpoint to understand. prior to that i wouldn't even carry a pocket knife. i considered it a weapon of war and i wouldn't carry it. it was principles.

Here's why I misunderstood - this is a quote from page 6 of this thread:

"so a kid in an urban area needs to know that if he tries to rob or carjack me; i will shoot him dead"

Collin · March 2007

onelongsong wrote:

here's where you misunderstand. i never said over a few dollars. i said attacked. this means being confronted with a weapon.

You said:

so a kid in an urban area needs to know that if he tries to rob or carjack me; i will shoot him dead

and then know1 and I asked if you think a wallet is worth more than human life and you said 'yes'.

I can attack someone without a weapon. Of course when you promote guns the attacker will most likely have a gun.

boxwine_in_hell · March 2007

jeffbr wrote:

I guess it is important to know your audience when your living depends on your audience. A number of media people have lost their market share or jobs by making statements that their viewers or sponsors took issue with.

My favorite part was when the dude started slobbering all over himself to apologize once he learned it was going to hit him in the pocket book. Dude, have some balls and stick by what you said and believe.

Jeanie · March 2007

know1 wrote:

Here's why I misunderstood - this is a quote from page 6 of this thread:

"so a kid in an urban area needs to know that if he tries to rob or carjack me; i will shoot him dead"

Guess you missed this?

onelongsong wrote:

i understand.i get a little caught up in the moment and don't choose my words wisely..............the average citizen should not carry a gun.

onelongsong · March 2007

Collin wrote:

You said:

so a kid in an urban area needs to know that if he tries to rob or carjack me; i will shoot him dead

and then know1 and I asked if you think a wallet is worth more than human life and you said 'yes'.

I can attack someone without a weapon. Of course when you promote guns the attacker will most likely have a gun.

to clarify a bit; if a bloke is twice my size and wanting to do me bodily harm; his hands are a weapon. it never happened but i'm illistrating. i knife is a weapon. you have a higher chance of dying from a knife wound than from a gunshot.

i believe i said "in a word; yes". there's a difference. i assumed you were under the impression that the attacker had a weapon as i stated earlier. if someone tried to take my wallet; i'd bitch slap them and hold them for the police. the wallet itself is not worth a life; but if someone thinks they will attack me and do bodily harm; it is worth their life. you seem to be forgetting the crime of ASSAULT WITH A DEADLY WEAPON in our talk. stealing a wallet isn't the big crime. as i've been relentlessly trying to point out:
1) if someone attacks me with a deadly weapon; i will respond.
2) there are many different areas in this vast country that are totally different than others. the way we live here is totally inappropriate for NYC; however; the way one lives in NYC is also totally inappropriate act here.

i guess i wrongly assumed you knew i meant if an urban kid attacked; i implied "with a weapon".

i need to choose my words better in the future. i was saving typing time and trying not to be repetative but i guess i was misunderstood. i apologise for that.

Jeanie · March 2007

Collin wrote:

so a kid in an urban area needs to know that if he tries to rob or carjack me; i will shoot him dead.

Killing teens over a wallet. Sounds like onelongsong is quite the humanitarian.

So your wallet and car are worth more than human life?

in a word; yes.

i have no problem killing some scum that attacks me.

A wallet and car are worth more than human life. And he doesn't even have a problem with it. Killing a rotten kid, a walk in the park.

an eye for an eye

Theft = death penalty. This was, by the way, his reply when I asked him if he was a Christian. Yay Jesus!

killing your first person is hard. especially if you look into their eyes. but after that it isn't that bad. when you exterminate vermin; you do society a favour.

Vermin, he admits he has no problem killing punk kids, he considers them vermin and he thinks he's doing society a favour. Well tell that to the 16-year-old thug's mother.

Oh I understand human nature alright.

Is a wallet worth more than a human life?

In a word; yes.

The most expensive wallet I've ever seen was $125. A human life is worth less.

What's your interpretation Jeanie?

I'm trying.

Ah yes, it's a wonderful world isn't it. Do I have to post some Darfur pictures? Or kids in Iraq? Or how about the story that was on the news yesterday? A mother killed her 5 children.

I'm doing my best to change it. Too bad the people I'm trying to help are the same vermin onelongsong has no problem killing.

It certainly can. How big of an attempt does a person make to understand someone when he shoots that person.

Guess you missed it too?

onelonsong wrote:

Originally Posted by onelongsong
i understand.i get a little caught up in the moment and don't choose my words wisely..............the average citizen should not carry a gun.

I could go through the whole thread and point out quotes that onelongsong has made that you seem to have missed that could tell a different story. But I'm sensing, maybe incorrectly, that isn't what you are looking for.

I don't need pics of world horror thanks, I've seen them. And probably will continue to see them in my life. If I could work out how to post photo links, maybe I should post you some positive and happy images of good people doing good things in the world. And lets face it, there are more doing good than bad, because society is still functioning. Again with perspective.

I think it's great that you are trying to help troubled kids. They need all the help they can get. Onelongsong has also helped troubled kids.

Why is it so difficult for people to understand that life is about choices?
EVEN if you have the odds stacked against you?
And that if you perpertrate violence against someone for whatever reason, that you can't always be guaranteed that you aren't going to get a violent reaction? That's human nature. And unless you are in the situation, unless it is happening to you, then how can you judge what you would do? Or how the situation is going to pan out?

onelongsong · March 2007

Jeanie wrote:

Guess you missed this?

i didn't miss it. i firmly believe it. untrained people with guns is rediculous. but to a trained and qualified person; a gun is a tool.

the initial discussion took place when someone mentioned that someone other than hunters should be in charge of eliminating infectous vermin. i said the hunters because to hunt prairie dogs; you need to be extremely skilled. you have to put a bullet in an area the size of coin from 100 to 200 yards. so someone this accurate is most qualified.

i'm not sure what started my other rant but i don't think the average person should carry a gun. from what i see on the tele; a lot of cops shouldn't carry a gun. if you can't hit your target every time; you shouldn't carry a gun. if you don't have the intelligence to refrain from firing when you have doubt about hitting your target; you shouldn't carry a gun.

know1 · March 2007

Jeanie wrote:

Guess you missed this?

And I guess you missed this (that came after your quoted piece):

"here's where you misunderstand. i NEVER SAID over a few dollars. i said attacked."

Jeanie · March 2007

onelongsong wrote:

i didn't miss it. i firmly believe it. untrained people with guns is rediculous. but to a trained and qualified person; a gun is a tool.

the initial discussion took place when someone mentioned that someone other than hunters should be in charge of eliminating infectous vermin. i said the hunters because to hunt prairie dogs; you need to be extremely skilled. you have to put a bullet in an area the size of coin from 100 to 200 yards. so someone this accurate is most qualified.

i'm not sure what started my other rant but i don't think the average person should carry a gun. from what i see on the tele; a lot of cops shouldn't carry a gun. if you can't hit your target every time; you shouldn't carry a gun. if you don't have the intelligence to refrain from firing when you have doubt about hitting your target; you shouldn't carry a gun.

So this guy that the NRA has banned? Do you think he has a point?
Seeing as how we've pretty much removed all the semi automatic weapons from the general population here, and we aren't as a nation, big gun owners anyway, the average person here probably hasn't even seen a gun in real life. Because that is my experience I find 2 things difficult to wrap my head around with America and guns.

1) The sheer amount of private gun ownership and the attitude to guns, which seems to be that everyone needs to have one.

2) The amount of power wielded by the NRA.

Jeanie · March 2007

know1 wrote:

And I guess you missed this (that came after your quoted piece):

"here's where you misunderstand. i NEVER SAID over a few dollars. i said attacked."

And? Sorry, what's your point?

And who's quote is it anyway?

know1 · March 2007

Jeanie wrote:

And? Sorry, what's your point?

Look, if you can't follow along, don't jump in and muddy the water.

You quote me where I pointed out the misunderstanding but COMPLETELY missed the point.

So I re-stated the misunderstanding and put the key word in CAPS for emphasis.

Go back about a page and a half, read slowly and in order, and you might figure it out.

Jeanie · March 2007

know1 wrote:

Look, if you can't follow along, don't jump in and muddy the water.

You quote me where I pointed out the misunderstanding but COMPLETELY missed the point.

So I re-stated the misunderstanding and put the key word in CAPS for emphasis.

Go back about a page and a half, read slowly and in order, and you might figure it out.

Yes, you should be against guns and violence. You don't have the temperament for communicating well with people. It would only end terribly.
Now if you feel better about being horrid to me, yet again, I suggest you go play on the road!
No point trying to understand you clearly, you are all about judgement.

There we go, managed to get me to sink to your level. Congratulations.

onelongsong · March 2007

Jeanie wrote:

So this guy that the NRA has banned? Do you think he has a point?
Seeing as how we've pretty much removed all the semi automatic weapons from the general population here, and we aren't as a nation, big gun owners anyway, the average person here probably hasn't even seen a gun in real life. Because that is my experience I find 2 things difficult to wrap my head around with America and guns.

1) The sheer amount of private gun ownership and the attitude to guns, which seems to be that everyone needs to have one.

2) The amount of power wielded by the NRA.

where i grew up; you did need guns. and still do. if you've got a fox eating your chooks; it must be eliminated. if you have a coyote problem; a gun is the only solution. same with mountain lions attacking livestock.

i know nothing about the NRA really so i can't comment.

know1 · March 2007

Jeanie wrote:

Yes, you should be against guns and violence. You don't have the temperament for communicating well with people. It would only end terribly.
Now if you feel better about being horrid to me, yet again, I suggest you go play on the road!
No point trying to understand you clearly, you are all about judgement.

There we go, managed to get me to sink to your level. Congratulations.

That's your interpretation. I was just stating the facts. You've really confused the conversation by not paying attention.

Gun remark makes outdoorsman an outcast

Comments

Categories