Canadians do not share their PM stance, yet still divide (polls)

thankyougrandma
thankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
edited June 2011 in A Moving Train
All of Canada
42% believed the federal government did not move quickly enough to evacuate canadians
36% think it was adequate

48% Disagree with Harper's support of Israel
35% agree with Harper's support of Israel

Quebec
62% believed the federal government did not move quickly enough to evacuate canadians

67% disagree with Harper's support of Israel
19% agree with Harper's support of Israel

Alberta
52% think it was adequate

36% disagree with Harper's support of Israel
45% agree with Harper's support of Israel


pdf file:
http://www.legermarketing.com/documents/spclm/060721ENG.pdf

article:
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=406ff1c0-47ca-4a13-aae9-f3ac8eb3627d
"L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    thankyougrandma wrote:
    All of Canada
    42% believed the federal government did not move quickly enough to evacuate canadians
    36% think it was adequate

    48% Disagree with Harper's support of Israel
    35% agree with Harper's support of Israel

    Quebec
    62% believed the federal government did not move quickly enough to evacuate canadians

    67% disagree with Harper's support of Israel
    19% agree with Harper's support of Israel

    Alberta
    52% think it was adequate

    36% disagree with Harper's support of Israel
    45% agree with Harper's support of Israel


    pdf file:
    http://www.legermarketing.com/documents/spclm/060721ENG.pdf

    article:
    http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=406ff1c0-47ca-4a13-aae9-f3ac8eb3627d
    A poll is a poll, you take them all with a grain of salt. Much like I take both Quebec's and Alberta's number's with a grain of salt. Alberta most strangly backs the current government so they back Harper. A little bit of my government right or wrong. Quebec has had a less than stellar attitude towards immigrants in the past and it reflects in their numbers.

    But I wonder why so many people think it is Canada's duty to haul their ass home from foreign lands. The only ones Canada should be helping are government workers. Canadians working non-government jobs in the Middle East countries pay no Canadian income tax and the danger of their job is reflected in their income. So why do people expect a military to sail half way around the world to drag these peoples asses home for free?
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    surferdude wrote:
    A poll is a poll, you take them all with a grain of salt. Much like I take both Quebec's and Alberta's number's with a grain of salt. Alberta most strangly backs the current government so they back Harper. A little bit of my government right or wrong. Quebec has had a less than stellar attitude towards immigrants in the past and it reflects in their numbers.

    But I wonder why so many people think it is Canada's duty to haul their ass home from foreign lands. The only ones Canada should be helping are government workers. Canadians working non-government jobs in the Middle East countries pay no Canadian income tax and the danger of their job is reflected in their income. So why do people expect a military to sail half way around the world to drag these peoples asses home for free?


    I am sure that if they could taxi on down the Beruit airport runway they may have made their own way home. In a war zone it is the responsibility of the government to get their civilians out of harms way. I am sure that there were more people on vacation then just working for big bucks over there.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • thankyougrandma
    thankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    surferdude wrote:
    A poll is a poll, you take them all with a grain of salt. Much like I take both Quebec's and Alberta's number's with a grain of salt. Alberta most strangly backs the current government so they back Harper. A little bit of my government right or wrong. Quebec has had a less than stellar attitude towards immigrants in the past and it reflects in their numbers.

    But I wonder why so many people think it is Canada's duty to haul their ass home from foreign lands. The only ones Canada should be helping are government workers. Canadians working non-government jobs in the Middle East countries pay no Canadian income tax and the danger of their job is reflected in their income. So why do people expect a military to sail half way around the world to drag these peoples asses home for free?

    Polls are only polls, just an indication, have not said otherwise. Still i post it as an indication, so we can discuss.

    I disagree about the evacuation, it is what our military should be for, it's call humanitarian actions. Specially since it involves our own citizens. I understand that it's not easy, but still we were just there later than most of the other country. BUT, i think this evacuation topic is taking too much places and erase Canada's stance on the war itself, that might be an advantage for the PM.

    About the evacuation, i just hope we'll learn from this, really there's amelioration to be done for crisis management (in our own country and internationaly) and as of now, things seem to be picking up, although i hope we won't refuse foreign countries help offer just for our images, i hope everyone will get home safe.
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    even flow? wrote:
    I am sure that if they could taxi on down the Beruit airport runway they may have made their own way home. In a war zone it is the responsibility of the government to get their civilians out of harms way. I am sure that there were more people on vacation then just working for big bucks over there.
    Get in a car and head north and keep going. Canadians are either there working or on vacation. These are not the New Orleans poor we are talking about. At the very least we should be handing them a very realistic bill for services provided.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    surferdude wrote:
    Get in a car and head north and keep going. Canadians are either there working or on vacation. These are not the New Orleans poor we are talking about. At the very least we should be handing them a very realistic bill for services provided.


    Maybe they could have rented a truck and packed themselves in and hoped for the best. If my ticket says I will be taking off from Beruit airport on July19 and some country has just came in and bombed it to bits. Just get me the fuck out of here. And that is what the government is supposed to do in my eyes. Maybe they could have used ELAL to get them out after all they did cause the mess. Maybe ferried them south to a nice Israeli airport and flew them out.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • thankyougrandma
    thankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    surferdude wrote:
    Get in a car and head north and keep going. Canadians are either there working or on vacation. These are not the New Orleans poor we are talking about. At the very least we should be handing them a very realistic bill for services provided.

    yeah tourist goes in Lebanon with their Honda Civic... i don't think it's that easy... bill them? I guess we should bill Afghan. govt. for using our military then, is that how it goes? Humanitarian, help, that's what it is...
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    the main roads have been destroyed by israel ... the one still standing was used by a couple of families last nite and they are dead ...

    part of our passport fee goes to situations like this - we are canadian nationals and that means we are to be protected as such ... similar to the guy abducted in Uzbekistan - the Canadian gov't is supposed to protect us from situations like that as best they can ...
  • thankyougrandma
    thankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    polaris wrote:
    the main roads have been destroyed by israel ... the one still standing was used by a couple of families last nite and they are dead ...

    part of our passport fee goes to situations like this - we are canadian nationals and that means we are to be protected as such ... similar to the guy abducted in Uzbekistan - the Canadian gov't is supposed to protect us from situations like that as best they can ...

    oh, maybe we should bill Israel?
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,256
    If you want to live in Lebanon or the Middle East, there are risks. Deal with them.
  • thankyougrandma
    thankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    bootlegger10 wrote:
    If you want to live in Lebanon or the Middle East, there are risks. Deal with them.

    bravo!

    that was the logic applied to New Orleans i guess...
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    bootlegger10 wrote:
    If you want to live in Lebanon or the Middle East, there are risks. Deal with them.


    Kind of like working in sky scrapers in the USA and buying into foreign policy. And then crying to the world when something goes wrong. Who fucking cares about them right! I sure don't. I guess it is the same situation.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Anyone recognise a pattern here?......

    S. Lebanon: Condemns Israeli action in southern Lebanon. S/16732 9/6/1984 Vetoed: 13-1 (U.S.), with 1 abstention (UK)

    Lebanon: Condemns Israeli practices against civilians in southern Lebanon. S/17000. 3/12/1985 Vetoed: 11-1 (U.S.), with 3 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, UK)

    Lebanon: Condemns Israeli practices against civilians in southern Lebanon.
    S/17730/Rev. 2. 1/17/1986 Vetoed: 11-1 (U.S.), with 3 abstentions (Australia, Denmark, UK)

    Lebanon: Draft strongly deplored repeated Israeli attacks against Lebanese territory and other measures and practices against the civilian population; (S/19434) 1/18/1988 vetoed 13-1 (US), with 1 abstention (UK)

    Lebanon: Draft condemned recent invasion by Israeli forces of Southern Lebanon and repeated a call for the immediate withdrawal of all Israeli forces from Lebanese territory; (S/19868) 5/10/1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)

    Lebanon: Draft strongly deplored the recent Israeli attack against Lebanese territory on 9 December 1988; (S/20322) 12/14/1988 vetoed 14-1 (US)

    http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00170/p1-210706_170715a.jpg
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    Well first off I agree that the government should be responisble for their citizens under crisis even if another country...to say they should not is ridiculous in my mind....yes it was the choice of the citizen to travel to Lebanon...however they went their on the pretext that Israel wouldn't decided to bomb the hell of out of the country...when the airport has been destroyed and all major highways out of the country severed....

    How could one not expect their government to help out...what are they expected to organize their own ship for passage or better yet venture out into the Lebonese frontier and hope to "hitch" a ride in the back of some offroad vehicle and sneak into a neighouring country...like really it is the responsibiltiy of our government to help these people out and it is pathetic at best right now...which makes me wonder if Harper will use this as campaign to further military spending as he can use this disaterious evacuation as a call for more money for the military to "help" in these situations....
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    Alberta's support #'s are lower than I expected.....which I take as being a postive thing.....although still too high in my opinion....
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    How could one not expect their government to help out...what are they expected to organize their own ship for passage or better yet venture out into the Lebonese frontier and hope to "hitch" a ride in the back of some offroad vehicle and sneak into a neighouring country...like really it is the responsibiltiy of our government to help these people out and it is pathetic at best right now...which makes me wonder if Harper will use this as campaign to further military spending as he can use this disaterious evacuation as a call for more money for the military to "help" in these situations....
    I concede that the government should be helping out all Canadians. BUT I do believe that we should be sending a big bill to those Canadians who were working there and not paying any Canadian taxes. I have a fundamental problem with aiding Candians who intentionally live their lives in a way to contribute nothing to Canada. Much like I have a fundamental issue with the way former PM Martin runs his shipping business.

    Ever think that more money needs to be spent on the military so that it is able to act in the ways we want it too. Every time you've backed military budget cuts you've backed leaving Canadians in war-torn countires and you've backed genocides like Rwanda and Darfur.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    surferdude wrote:
    I concede that the government should be helping out all Canadians. BUT I do believe that we should be sending a big bill to those Canadians who were working there and not paying any Canadian taxes. I have a fundamental problem with aiding Candians who intentionally live their lives in a way to contribute nothing to Canada. Much like I have a fundamental issue with the way former PM Martin runs his shipping business.

    Ever think that more money needs to be spent on the military so that it is able to act in the ways we want it too. Every time you've backed military budget cuts you've backed leaving Canadians in war-torn countires and you've backed genocides like Rwanda and Darfur.

    I never said I was against the spending in my last post.....I simply asked if this could give Harper leverage in getting more military spending...
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    I never said I was against the spending in my last post.....I simply asked if this could give Harper leverage in getting more military spending...
    But you make it sound as if more spending is bad. Maybe this is just the levergae CANADA needs to do the right thing regarding their military. That Harper heads the government should be meaningless if it is indeed the right thing.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • thankyougrandma
    thankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    surferdude wrote:
    I concede that the government should be helping out all Canadians. BUT I do believe that we should be sending a big bill to those Canadians who were working there and not paying any Canadian taxes. I have a fundamental problem with aiding Candians who intentionally live their lives in a way to contribute nothing to Canada. Much like I have a fundamental issue with the way former PM Martin runs his shipping business.

    Ever think that more money needs to be spent on the military so that it is able to act in the ways we want it too. Every time you've backed military budget cuts you've backed leaving Canadians in war-torn countires and you've backed genocides like Rwanda and Darfur.

    Rwanda would have happen even if Canada would have had a superpowerful military, it was bureaucratic blockage that lead to the events, military were already on site and they left at the demands of their govt. and the failure to have a resolutions to intervene, sounds like the same kind of bureaucratic bloc that is happening in the Lebanon situation right now, just different actors... Darfur is still happening, and again i feel it's not our military ressources that explain our absence in the region, more of a bad planning of current ressources and lack of... bureacratic resolution. On that one i could be wrong, just assuming.

    I agree with you about military funding that could help in those situation, just need to make it clear when the funding is asked, what the funding is for, although other than the USA, warships were not really visible in this area, so i don't know. But for the future, we'll need more efficient military.
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    surferdude wrote:
    But you make it sound as if more spending is bad. Maybe this is just the levergae CANADA needs to do the right thing regarding their military. That Harper heads the government should be meaningless if it is indeed the right thing.

    If I came off that way I didn't mean...really how many times have people mis-understood you on here?...and I call out Harper b/c he is our PM, at the current moment.....
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    which makes me wonder if Harper will use this as campaign to further military spending as he can use this disaterious evacuation as a call for more money for the military to "help" in these situations....

    So are you arguing that there is no relationship between military spending and humanitarian aid? If so, you're mistaken. How is an evacuation in a foreign country supposed to be successful without any military involvement? That is in fact one of the things a military is supposed to do.

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