Canadians do not share their PM stance, yet still divide (polls)

RockinInCanada

reborncareerist wrote:

So are you arguing that there is no relationship between military spending and humanitarian aid? If so, you're mistaken. How is an evacuation in a foreign country supposed to be successful without any military involvement? That is in fact one of the things a military is supposed to do.

Thats why I posed the question..like I said before I did not mean to sound like I was against the idea of more military spending...if our spending was justifed based upon the use in a scenerio like this I would give it a thumbs up....

Ahnimus

We shouldn't have evacuated. Who is going to evacuate the millions of Lebonese citizens?

I mean, sure they are Canadian, but in the end we are all people. It's like visiting a friend and when his plumbing goes haywire you just up and leave. "Screw that noise, I'm outta here and good luck to you!"

Why are people so quick to retreat to the comfort of western society? I guess if we don't have any Canadians in Lebanon then we can detach ourselves from the problem :(

rebornFixer

Ahnimus wrote:

We shouldn't have evacuated. Who is going to evacuate the millions of Lebonese citizens?

I mean, sure they are Canadian, but in the end we are all people. It's like visiting a friend and when his plumbing goes haywire you just up and leave. "Screw that noise, I'm outta here and good luck to you!"

Why are people so quick to retreat to the comfort of western society? I guess if we don't have any Canadians in Lebanon then we can detach ourselves from the problem :(

Hmmm ... Yeah, I know what you mean. Especially considering that a lot of these people are dual citizens. They want to be Lebanese until the shit hits the fan, and then suddenly they are Canadians again. I mean, that sounds harsh ... I don't blame these people for wanting out, at all. Their lives are in danger. The fairweather citizen thing bugs me a bit, though, after watching the CTV news broadcast last night. Most people were thankful to be in Canada, but a few were flipping out at the cameras and criticizing the rescue attempt. I mean, Jesus Christ. Be glad you're safe, unlike the rest of the Lebanese who have no where to go. I too think that the rescue attempt could have gone better, but damn. You land on our safe shores and your first reaction is to beak off at everyone here for not bailing you out fast enough? Maybe it was the stress and shell shock talking.

lukin2006

even flow? wrote:

I am sure that if they could taxi on down the Beruit airport runway they may have made their own way home. In a war zone it is the responsibility of the government to get their civilians out of harms way. I am sure that there were more people on vacation then just working for big bucks over there.

I can think of better spots to vacation than Lebanon, and as far as I'm concerned if there is not a travel advisory on when travelling to the middle east, there should be, and if you travel there it should be your responsibility to get out.

lukin2006

polaris wrote:

the main roads have been destroyed by israel ... the one still standing was used by a couple of families last nite and they are dead ...

part of our passport fee goes to situations like this - we are canadian nationals and that means we are to be protected as such ... similar to the guy abducted in Uzbekistan - the Canadian gov't is supposed to protect us from situations like that as best they can ...

Our gov't job should be to protect us fromj foreign invaders the best they can, not bail out every knuckle head that travels to the middle east. Anybody that hasn't lived under a rock knows that the middle east is the most violent region in the world, as far as I'm concerned bill every non gov't worker period.

RockinInCanada

beemster wrote:

I can think of better spots to vacation than Lebanon, and as far as I'm concerned if there is not a travel advisory on when travelling to the middle east, there should be, and if you travel there it should be your responsibility to get out.

Maybe for you...for people that want to experience another culture the Middle East is a good place to go....especially if you want to indulge in something outside of western civilization....I think a permanent travel advisory is not needed.....

Edit: We should also foot the bill......I want to look after my countrymen the best I can....even if it has to mean bailing them out of their vacation in a region that suddenly turns violent...but that is my opinion....

rightondude

surferdude wrote:

A poll is a poll, you take them all with a grain of salt. Much like I take both Quebec's and Alberta's number's with a grain of salt. Alberta most strangly backs the current government so they back Harper. A little bit of my government right or wrong. Quebec has had a less than stellar attitude towards immigrants in the past and it reflects in their numbers.

But I wonder why so many people think it is Canada's duty to haul their ass home from foreign lands. The only ones Canada should be helping are government workers. Canadians working non-government jobs in the Middle East countries pay no Canadian income tax and the danger of their job is reflected in their income. So why do people expect a military to sail half way around the world to drag these peoples asses home for free?

Yea I definitely agree. I would say most Canadians are generous, and kind, to a fault in this regard (if that's even possible) as they are always trying to do the right thing.

However, that is truly beautiful...even though their ideology is being taken advantage of.

God Bless Canadians, and the Canadian way of life (as eroded as it is becoming from a certain southern Gov't influence cough cough).

Keeping in mind US Gov't and society are two different entities.

Ahnimus

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

Maybe for you...for people that want to experience another culture the Middle East is a good place to go....especially if you want to indulge in something outside of western civilization....I think a permanent travel advisory is not needed.....

Edit: We should also foot the bill......I want to look after my countrymen the best I can....even if it has to mean bailing them out of their vacation in a region that suddenly turns violent...but that is my opinion....

When I am rich, I am going to visit Germany and Switzerland. Then if I am ever rich again I am going to visit the Middle-East.

lukin2006

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

Maybe for you...for people that want to experience another culture the Middle East is a good place to go....especially if you want to indulge in something outside of western civilization....I think a permanent travel advisory is not needed.....

Edit: We should also foot the bill......I want to look after my countrymen the best I can....even if it has to mean bailing them out of their vacation in a region that suddenly turns violent...but that is my opinion....

I am willing to bet that most of these people have not paid taxes in this country in years. Also lets look after the people who live in Canada and pay taxes in Canada first, secondly if they want experience the middle east, they should stay, its almost always a constant war zone anyways.

RockinInCanada

beemster wrote:

I am willing to bet that most of these people have not paid taxes in this country in years. Also lets look after the people who live in Canada and pay taxes in Canada first, secondly if they want experience the middle east, they should stay, its almost always a constant war zone anyways.

I didn't mentioon anything about taxes...from my posts you can see I was talking about tourists...hence the term vacation....plus you sound scared about the Middle East...really you sound paranoid.....it kinda depresses me...if you dont want to go there...thats cool....saying people, and we are talking about Canadians. And you are Canadian?

Saying they should just stay, really sucks to hear, nice to know you feel that way about your neighbours....for me, if there were Canadians over-sea, or anyone for that matter, that were stuck over there and did not have the same opinion of me in this current matter and wanted a ride home to be safe in their own borders...I would definetly not fucking say they should just stay....get over your politics and be a human being before you get all uptight in this left/right wing nonsense....that should come first....

lukin2006

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

I didn't mentioon anything about taxes...from my posts you can see I was talking about tourists...hence the term vacation....plus you sound scared about the Middle East...really you sound paranoid.....it kinda depresses me...if you dont want to go there...thats cool....saying people, and we are talking about Canadians. And you are Canadian?

Saying they should just stay, really sucks to hear, nice to know you feel that way about your neighbours....for me, if there were Canadians over-sea, or anyone for that matter, that were stuck over there and did not have the same opinion of me in this current matter and wanted a ride home to be safe in their own borders...I would definetly not fucking say they should just stay....get over your politics and be a human being before you get all uptight in this left/right wing nonsense....that should come first....

I am not scared, have no interest in the middle east, i figure if you go there and all hell breaks loose thats your problem, the problems in the middle east are no secret to anyone. They have problems over there, and these problems go back thousands of years. And most of these problems surround hate, and the bottom line is any historian will tell you that most of the Arab countries hate Isreal, and they will never admit the Isreal has the right be there. As long as you got that kind of hatred in your heart then the potential for major conflict exist.

Personally when I go on vacation I choose countries with good government, and as far as I'm concerned that is just being smart.

sourdough

The thing about Lebanon, is it is unlike the other middle eastern countries. Although they have suffered warfare (Israel attacks '82, civil war, Syrian occupation etc) Lebanon is regarded as a safe, cosmopolitan and peaceful nation. Beirut was commonly known as the Paris of teh Middle East and was known for a highly diverse community of different ideas and ideologies. This is very much different from its neighbouring countries. Furthermore, it is a democratic country that has not ever acted aggressively outside its borders. People who go to Lebanon do not expect to face the same dangers as if they were to visit other Middle easter countries.

thankyougrandma

beemster wrote:

I can think of better spots to vacation than Lebanon, and as far as I'm concerned if there is not a travel advisory on when travelling to the middle east, there should be, and if you travel there it should be your responsibility to get out.

Obviously thousands of canadians, americans, french, swedish, _____, disagree with you about Lebanon since they choose that spot for vacation.

Clearly we must help our citizens and if we can we should also go help Lebanese civillians and pay for it by setting up refugees camp everywhere in Lebanon, i would support my government if they'd do so. I'd like my taxes to pay for that. I'd like our military to do just that, rescue and humanitarian mission.

thankyougrandma

beemster wrote:

I am not scared, have no interest in the middle east, i figure if you go there and all hell breaks loose thats your problem, the problems in the middle east are no secret to anyone. They have problems over there, and these problems go back thousands of years. And most of these problems surround hate, and the bottom line is any historian will tell you that most of the Arab countries hate Isreal, and they will never admit the Isreal has the right be there. As long as you got that kind of hatred in your heart then the potential for major conflict exist.

Personally when I go on vacation I choose countries with good government, and as far as I'm concerned that is just being smart.

Palestine govt. were just in the process of officialy admitting that Israel AND Palestine exist, but then all hell broke loose, sad...

Btw we've sent a warship in New Orleans when Katrina hits, were you against paying for that? I'm also bringing that up again, if someone SHOULD pay for canadians being evacuate, it's Israel, otherwise we're just helping our own country citizens, it just can't get into my mind that someone and a newspaper (post) are against helping our own citizens...

thankyougrandma

Sleep, shower and university applications priority for new arrivals Jonathan Montpetit And Nelson Wyatt, Canadian Press
Published: Monday, July 24, 2006
MONTREAL (CP) - Sleep, a shower and applying to university were among the priorities for the latest round of Canadians returning from Lebanon as the Mideast country remained in the crosshair of the Israeli military. ...
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=f6038ec1-751c-47db-9e69-c3de043f7712&k=70444


Montreal to be gateway for all Lebanese evacuees
Max Harrold and Alan Hustak, CanWest News Service; Montreal Gazette
Published: Monday, July 24, 2006
MONTREAL - Montreal has been designated as the gateway for all Canadians returning from war-torn Lebanon, the federal government announced Sunday.

The decision means as many as 32,000 more evacuees could be coming through Pierre Elliott Trudeau International Airport during the next few weeks to reach their homes or relatives across Canada...
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=41ac06a5-b46a-49bd-853c-ecf40ba54dac

thankyougrandma

Canadians back Israel

Mike De Souza, CanWest News Service
Published: Tuesday, July 25, 2006

OTTAWA -- Strong support among Canadians for recent Israeli combat actions in Lebanon highlights the divide between Quebec and the rest of the country, a new poll has revealed.

The survey, conducted online by Ipsos-Reid for CanWest News Service and Global National, found that 64 per cent of Canadians believed Israel's military action in Lebanon was either somewhat or completely justified, while 57 per cent of Quebecers believed the Israeli response was "not at all justified."

"The only issue, really, is the stark divide between the two areas of the country, where Quebec -- and sometimes Atlantic Canada but mainly Quebec -- is at odds with the views of the majority of other Canadians," said John Wright, senior vice-president at Ipsos-Reid.

When asked which side of the conflict should make a major compromise in order to have a ceasefire, 63 per cent of Canadians said it was "those who kidnapped the Israeli soldiers," while 53 per cent of Quebecers said it was the Israeli government.

The poll surveyed 1,023 Canadians on July 20, before weekend demonstrations, including a large protest in Montreal, calling for peace in the Middle East and denouncing Prime Minister Stephen Harper's stance in support of Israel. There are as many as 50,000 people of Lebanese origin in Quebec, with Montreal being the home to about a third of all Lebanese-Canadians.

"When you look across the country, Mr. Harper has good support in every region on almost every measure of both foreign policy and his approach to this matter, except in the province of Quebec, where it tilts clearly to an Israeli compromise," said Wright.

Quebecers are also more likely to oppose having Canadian Armed Forces join a United Nations proposed international peacekeeping force along the Lebanese-Israeli border. While 56 per cent of Canadians, overall, supported this idea, 49 per cent of Quebec respondents in the poll were against.

"People in Quebec are following (the conflict) much more closely than other people in the country," said Wright. "They just, on all measures, have a contrary view on what Canada's position should be, what its response should be, and ... in terms of the Israeli government."

While the Conservatives have high hopes of turning their minority government into a majority by winning more Quebec seats in the next election, Wright said that Harper could still shift public opinion, depending on how he responds to changes in the conflict. But even if many people disapprove of his foreign policy with regards to the Middle East and the war in Afghanistan, he said the Conservatives still have room to gain some ground.

"This is a country where you can have 57 per cent of the people voting against you, and still win a massive majority," said Wright. "If six in 10 are not happy with your position, but four in 10 are, any politician who scores 40 per cent in the province of Quebec is going to be pretty well off."

The poll is considered accurate within 3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

© The Leader-Post (Regina) 2006

polaris

told ya ... i've noticed the reporting varies by station ...

RockinInCanada

Well I am not in the 64%....

thankyougrandma

polaris wrote:

told ya ... i've noticed the reporting varies by station ...

Louise Arbour is in Montreal and gave plenty of interviews, what a great woman, really i admire her work... I think she also gave english interviews.

Oh yes you were right, i know i know :( , i was so happy to post about how canadians disagree with Harper in the first place, now i had to correct myself, although it's still just a poll...

polaris

thankyougrandma wrote:

Louise Arbour is in Montreal and gave plenty of interviews, what a great woman, really i admire her work... I think she also gave english interviews.

Oh yes you were right, i know i know :( , i was so happy to post about how canadians disagree with Harper in the first place, now i had to correct myself, although it's still just a poll...

i think the better poll would be to see how many cdns were asleep on this issue ... how many actually know what is happening there at even a basic level? ... i would say a very low number ... most have tuned out already ... this is canada for ya ...