Can we just, overthrow oil companies???

2

Comments

  • Posts: 5,700
    SundaySilence wrote:
    Their only responsibility is to maximize profits.

    This is not an irreducible axiom. Profits, to oil companies, are a positive measure of revenues vis a vis costs. Costs, for oil companies, extend from the challenge of extracting oil from underneath or upon the earth's surface. Revenues, for oil companies, extend from the rewards of serving oil consumers.

    So, to say that an oil company's "only responsibility is to maximize profits" is to say that an oil company must find the ideal balance between extraction costs and serving oil consumers. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that being the primary responsibility of an oil company. In fact, if the primary responsibility of an oil company was something other than that, we'd all be in trouble.
  • Posts: 1,952
    farfromglorified wrote:
    This is not an irreducible axiom. Profits, to oil companies, are a positive measure of revenues vis a vis costs. Costs, for oil companies, extend from the challenge of extracting oil from underneath or upon the earth's surface. Revenues, for oil companies, extend from the rewards of serving oil consumers.

    So, to say that an oil company's "only responsibility is to maximize profits" is to say that an oil company must find the ideal balance between extraction costs and serving oil consumers. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that being the primary responsibility of an oil company. In fact, if the primary responsibility of an oil company was something other than that, we'd all be in trouble.


    That was very well written. I get the feeling that some people here think that a oil company is like a one man operation where the CEO finds and pumps the oil himself then refines it and sells it to the gas stations. And when they make these massive profits it all goes in his pocket.

    But in reality oil companies have thousands of employees (so when they maximize profits it benefits these people). Plus they also have thousands of investors including average people with retirement and savings funds (so when they maximize profits these people are able to make money). Plus oil companies pay taxes so when oil companies make more money they pay more taxes and average citizens benefit (a big part of the reason the Canadian economy has been doing so well the last few years is due to oil). So even if oil companies are only out for a profit, going for that profit benefits millions of people.
  • Posts: 5,700
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    That was very well written. I get the feeling that some people here think that a oil company is like a one man operation where the CEO finds and pumps the oil himself then refines it and sells it to the gas stations. And when they make these massive profits it all goes in his pocket.

    But in reality oil companies have thousands of employees (so when they maximize profits it benefits these people). Plus they also have thousands of investors including average people with retirement and savings funds (so when they maximize profits these people are able to make money). Plus oil companies pay taxes so when oil companies make more money they pay more taxes and average citizens benefit (a big part of the reason the Canadian economy has been doing so well the last few years is due to oil). So even if oil companies are only out for a profit, going for that profit benefits millions of people.

    Absolutely. Of course, there's a flip side to this as well. All of those "thousands of people" are likely consumers of oil and suffer when oil prices increase. Furthermore, the "maximization of profits" can lead to environmental damage, monopolizations, and other undesirables.

    Regardless, what really bothers me is that people simply want to focus on some kind of niche or surface issue in regards to this very complex topic, creating false absolutes out of pre-existing biases.
  • Posts: 537
    farfromglorified wrote:
    This is not an irreducible axiom. Profits, to oil companies, are a positive measure of revenues vis a vis costs. Costs, for oil companies, extend from the challenge of extracting oil from underneath or upon the earth's surface. Revenues, for oil companies, extend from the rewards of serving oil consumers.

    So, to say that an oil company's "only responsibility is to maximize profits" is to say that an oil company must find the ideal balance between extraction costs and serving oil consumers. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that being the primary responsibility of an oil company. In fact, if the primary responsibility of an oil company was something other than that, we'd all be in trouble.

    In addition oil companies subvert science, interfere with markets, lie to our elected representatives, manipulate gasoline supply in anticompetitive practice, and exert disproportionate influence over our government policy.
  • Posts: 537
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    That was very well written. I get the feeling that some people here think that a oil company is like a one man operation where the CEO finds and pumps the oil himself then refines it and sells it to the gas stations. And when they make these massive profits it all goes in his pocket.

    But in reality oil companies have thousands of employees (so when they maximize profits it benefits these people). Plus they also have thousands of investors including average people with retirement and savings funds (so when they maximize profits these people are able to make money). Plus oil companies pay taxes so when oil companies make more money they pay more taxes and average citizens benefit (a big part of the reason the Canadian economy has been doing so well the last few years is due to oil). So even if oil companies are only out for a profit, going for that profit benefits millions of people.

    ...and they don't pay their share of taxes.
  • Posts: 5,700
    SundaySilence wrote:
    ...and they don't pay their share of taxes.

    LOL...define "their share".
  • Posts: 5,700
    SundaySilence wrote:
    In addition oil companies subvert science, interfere with markets, lie to our elected representatives, manipulate gasoline supply in anticompetitive practice, and exert disproportionate influence over our government policy.

    They certainly do. However, they're far from alone in this.
  • Posts: 946
    SundaySilence wrote:
    ...and they don't pay their share of taxes.
    Would you please state facts and back it up with proof. Any one can say anything, it doesn't mean it is true. (Exhibit A= Bill Clinton).
    "If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much room."

    Gambling=a taxation on stupidity.

    Remember, you can walk anywhere, as long as you have the time.

    http://www.ryanmontbleauband.com/

    http://www.myspace.com/jessedee
  • Posts: 537
    farfromglorified wrote:
    LOL...define "their share".


    As a result of federal corporate income tax credits and deductions oil companies pay an effective income tax rate of 11%. The non-oil industry average is 18%.
  • Posts: 5,700
    SundaySilence wrote:
    As a result of federal corporate income tax credits and deductions oil companies pay an effective income tax rate of 11%. The non-oil industry average is 18%.

    You didn't answer my question. Define "their share".
  • Posts: 1,952
    SundaySilence wrote:
    As a result of federal corporate income tax credits and deductions oil companies pay an effective income tax rate of 11%. The non-oil industry average is 18%.

    But is that really a problem with the oil company or a problem with your government. Plus I don't know about you but when I do my taxes I claim every possible deduction I can make, why wouldn't I expect anyone else to do the same? I mean honestly if I got my tax package next year and the government told me I only had to pay like 11% income tax, I wouldn't offer to pay more. Would you, would anyone?
  • Posts: 537
    farfromglorified wrote:
    You didn't answer my question. Define "their share".

    I'm not going to discuss the dictionary. Substitute disproportionate if it will help you grasp the point.
  • Posts: 537
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    But is that really a problem with the oil company or a problem with your government. Plus I don't know about you but when I do my taxes I claim every possible deduction I can make, why wouldn't I expect anyone else to do the same? I mean honestly if I got my tax package next year and the government told me I only had to pay like 11% income tax, I wouldn't offer to pay more. Would you, would anyone?

    Of course its a problem with government. The only responsibility oil companies have is to maximize profits.
  • Posts: 1,952
    SundaySilence wrote:
    Of course its a problem with government. The only responsibility oil companies have is to maximize profits.

    So if the government tells them they only have to pay 11% tax I don't really see how you can hold it against them. Like I said I have never offered to pay more tax than I have been asked to. Besides that is only US taxes, which doesn't really account for the fact that these are global companies. In Canada we have been able to have huge budget surpluses the last few years thanks to tax revenue from Oil companies.
  • Posts: 5,700
    SundaySilence wrote:
    I'm not going to discuss the dictionary. Substitute disproportionate if it will help you grasp the point.

    LOL...how is it "disproportionate" when Exxon alone paid $9,000,000,000 in income tax in a single quarter this year, not to mention the dollars extracted via the gas tax???

    I'm not sure where you got your data, but the effective tax rates on the major US oil companies were in the 40s, not the 10s. For instance, people screamed about Exxon's $11,000,000,000 profits, but didn't want to mention their $9,000,000,000 in income taxes....
  • Posts: 946
    farfromglorified wrote:
    LOL...how is it "disproportionate" when Exxon alone paid $9,000,000,000 in income tax in a single quarter this year, not to mention the dollars extracted via the gas tax???

    I'm not sure where you got your data, but the effective tax rates on the major US oil companies were in the 40s, not the 10s. For instance, people screamed about Exxon's $11,000,000,000 profits, but didn't want to mention their $9,000,000,000 in income taxes....
    It's called people being brainless sheep. They just follow what the people in their party say instead of thinking and researching for themselves.
    "If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much room."

    Gambling=a taxation on stupidity.

    Remember, you can walk anywhere, as long as you have the time.

    http://www.ryanmontbleauband.com/

    http://www.myspace.com/jessedee
  • Posts: 537
    farfromglorified wrote:
    LOL...how is it "disproportionate" when Exxon alone paid $9,000,000,000 in income tax in a single quarter this year, not to mention the dollars extracted via the gas tax???

    I'm not sure where you got your data, but the effective tax rates on the major US oil companies were in the 40s, not the 10s. For instance, people screamed about Exxon's $11,000,000,000 profits, but didn't want to mention their $9,000,000,000 in income taxes....

    http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/fuel_economy/subsidizing-big-oil.html
  • Posts: 5,700
    SundaySilence wrote:
    http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/fuel_economy/subsidizing-big-oil.html

    LOL...ballsy choice of sources there. Anyway, did you notice that the data you're citing is from nearly 20 years ago?
  • Posts: 537
    farfromglorified wrote:
    LOL...ballsy choice of sources there. Anyway, did you notice that the data you're citing is from nearly 20 years ago?

    Yes, I noticed. I suspect its worse after 8 years of oilmen in the executive branch. If you have another source please share.


    In 1982 congress passed the oil depletion allowance allowing owners of oil in the ground to count as income only 87.5% of their oil royalities.
  • Posts: 537
    farfromglorified wrote:
    They certainly do. However, they're far from alone in this.

    Surely they are not alone, but they are more effective than many due to the influence they weild as a result of their bankroll.

Welcome!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.
Sign In
Register

Quick Links

Categories