Can we just, overthrow oil companies???

LikeAnOceanLikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
edited May 2008 in A Moving Train
I mean, we out number their execs by hundreds of millions.. Protesting does no good. We are too dependent. They are charging us more than double of what supply and demand should be!

http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/21/news/economy/oil_hearing/index.htm?cnn=yes
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  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    I mean, we out number their execs by hundreds of millions.. Protesting does no good. We are too dependent. They are charging us more than double of what supply and demand should be!

    http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/21/news/economy/oil_hearing/index.htm?cnn=yes


    Poor Planning on the part of the United States does not make an Oil Company evil for turning a profit on energy that helps people live nice fun convienent lives. They also employ thousands and help them enjoy life through salary and benifits and what not.

    They didn't force the US to import everything... they allowed that environment to be advantageous.

    What the US has needed to do for years is to work on ways of loosening ties with oil before this happened... they had thier first "crisis" in the late 70's... then demand dropped.... shockingly the price of oil dropped. There are plenty of ways to become more energy independant we as a country have just not done anything about it. As far as energy is concerned we need to make sure the government regulations keep competition free so one company isn't dominant or controlling other companies or batteries what have you.

    Obvioulsy demand is quite high across the globe, then we add in all the special blends of all fuels including now diesel... and it gets really expensive.


    with all due respect to those senators involved, they don't know what the hell they are talking about. Normal Supply and Demand? What is that? All that good outsourcing in India and China has produced burgeoning oil hungry markets, and thier money... just as good as the dollar. It's not just US demand... it's Global demand that is the largest issue, the US has not taken steps to drill for local oil or to properly support finding alternative methods of energy independance.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    I mean, we out number their execs by hundreds of millions.. Protesting does no good. We are too dependent. They are charging us more than double of what supply and demand should be!

    http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/21/news/economy/oil_hearing/index.htm?cnn=yes
    YES. and while we're at it we might as well take over ALL economic institutions and democratize them.
  • i like how the same huge money interests that own most of the oil companies are the same people funding the environmental groups that vehmenently protest drilling for oil in alaska, california, and the gulf.

    Why would they do that?

    Because they know that if we did drill we would accomplish two things:

    1. drive down the price of oil on the market (very bad for them)

    2. significantly ease our dependence on foreign oil thus totally altering our current foreign policy, which would therefore bring some stability back to the middle east, lower tensions between the US and the arab world, provide economic security to the US, and utterly destroy their global warmongering. (even worse for them)

    :cool:
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • I mean, we out number their execs by hundreds of millions.. Protesting does no good. We are too dependent. They are charging us more than double of what supply and demand should be!

    http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/21/news/economy/oil_hearing/index.htm?cnn=yes

    So who then is going to find the oil you use to drive your hummer? Are you going to do it?

    This "oil companies are evil" bullshit is exactly that. Energy is the most valuable commodity, so its not suprising that they make huge profits.
  • i like how the same huge money interests that own most of the oil companies are the same people funding the environmental groups that vehmenently protest drilling for oil in alaska, california, and the gulf.

    Why would they do that?

    Because they know that if we did drill we would accomplish two things:

    1. drive down the price of oil on the market (very bad for them)

    2. significantly ease our dependence on foreign oil thus totally altering our current foreign policy, which would therefore bring some stability back to the middle east, lower tensions between the US and the arab world, provide economic security to the US, and utterly destroy their global warmongering. (even worse for them)

    :cool:

    It wouldn't. This is a long term increase in oil price from which there is no recovery. Oil reserves in the arctic regions would not significantly change the current sitution, though they mights put it off for maybe 5 years.
  • It wouldn't. This is a long term increase in oil price from which there is no recovery. Oil reserves in the arctic regions would not significantly change the current sitution, though they mights put it off for maybe 5 years.

    That is hogwash.

    1. We could be drilling in the pacific, AND in the gulf

    2. There is NEVER "no recovery" from the fundamental laws of supply and demand.

    If there is more supply, the price will decrease.
    Of course global demand for oil is increasing.
    However, OPEC is ALREADY LIMITING production, is not at full capacity, and there IS extra capacity in the system (albeit not much) globaly.

    What you are seeing right now is GLOBLAL COLLUSION by the major players in the oil game to drive up the price, both on the supply AND demand side. They are selling less than they could be. And they are BUYING (speculating) RABIDLY. Now part of that buying is honest -- ie. big money is not comfortable in stocks or cash right now, and is moving in to hard assets. But part of it is PURE MANIPULATION. They are buying just for the sake of driving up price.

    Why?

    To cripple the economies of this world so badly that going concerns are no longer going. Put simply: they want to put the screws to us, so that we will have to sell. Then they will buy on the cheap.

    This is EXACTLY what the great depression was about, and it is EXACTLY what they are doing now -- an unfathomable consolidation of wealth. Bear Sterns was just the fucking beginning. Hang on and get ready.
    The Federal Reserve announced today that, outside of outright catastrophe, they are done cutting rates.
    Get ready for more bank write-offs, failures, and bankruptcies.

    They are engineering a crisis, plain and simple.

    BTW, Brazil just discovered two MASSIVE new oil fields, and we could be doing the same, if the pussy-foot liberals would STFU and get the drilling started.

    Unfortunately, the big money is MORE than happy to oblidge and not drill. It just keeps the price up for them, and they get to hold on to reserves, which they get to state on their balance sheet as assets, and use for leverage instead of selling it.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    you sure can....first you need to buy enough shares in the company to take over the board......you'll need a few hundred billion dollars but the solution is there :)









    we're screwed :(
  • That is hogwash.

    1. We could be drilling in the pacific, AND in the gulf

    2. There is NEVER "no recovery" from the fundamental laws of supply and demand.

    If there is more supply, the price will decrease.
    Of course global demand for oil is increasing.
    However, OPEC is ALREADY LIMITING production, is not at full capacity, and there IS extra capacity in the system (albeit not much) globaly.

    What you are seeing right now is GLOBLAL COLLUSION by the major players in the oil game to drive up the price, both on the supply AND demand side. They are selling less than they could be. And they are BUYING (speculating) RABIDLY. Now part of that buying is honest -- ie. big money is not comfortable in stocks or cash right now, and is moving in to hard assets. But part of it is PURE MANIPULATION. They are buying just for the sake of driving up price.

    Why?

    To cripple the economies of this world so badly that going concerns are no longer going. Put simply: they want to put the screws to us, so that we will have to sell. Then they will buy on the cheap.

    This is EXACTLY what the great depression was about, and it is EXACTLY what they are doing now -- an unfathomable consolidation of wealth. Bear Sterns was just the fucking beginning. Hang on and get ready.
    The Federal Reserve announced today that, outside of outright catastrophe, they are done cutting rates.
    Get ready for more bank write-offs, failures, and bankruptcies.

    They are engineering a crisis, plain and simple.

    BTW, Brazil just discovered two MASSIVE new oil fields, and we could be doing the same, if the pussy-foot liberals would STFU and get the drilling started.

    Unfortunately, the big money is MORE than happy to oblidge and not drill. It just keeps the price up for them, and they get to hold on to reserves, which they get to state on their balance sheet as assets, and use for leverage instead of selling it.

    Where is the supply going to come from? Oil is already getting harder to find resulting in companies going further offshore into deeper and deeper waters. It costs more to extract oil from these places and its only going to get worse. You (and many others) are obesessed with conspiracy theories about how the oil companies are screwing you. But the reality is oil is a finite resource, we have already found the biggest fields and a basic understanding of geology can tell you that as you go offshore we are going to find poorer reservoirs and less oil. So get used to rising oil prices because things are only going to get worse.
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    So who then is going to find the oil you use to drive your hummer? Are you going to do it?

    This "oil companies are evil" bullshit is exactly that. Energy is the most valuable commodity, so its not suprising that they make huge profits.


    That is sort of what I was thinking. It is not like oil companies are all completly owned by cartoon style evil billionaires who sit in their giant offices, wear top hats and smoke cigars all day. Oil companies are public companies owned by regular people. In fact I am pretty sure the oil stocks in my RRSP are the main thing keeping it in the black. Nothing is stopping anyone from getting a piece of those huge profits for themselves.
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 30,250
    I mean, we out number their execs by hundreds of millions.. Protesting does no good. We are too dependent. They are charging us more than double of what supply and demand should be!

    http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/21/news/economy/oil_hearing/index.htm?cnn=yes


    well you just posted why we have no choice you allready have the mentalaty of no protest because we are to dependent , that's what it would take a total shut down like a no drive day foreverybody no flights booked for one day ,other wise will just kep on paying as much as they are willing to charge we AMERICANS ARE SHEEP BAHHHHH BAHHHHH BAHHHHHHHHH ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • kh65kh65 Posts: 946
    No. It is called the FREE market and Capitalism. This isn't Soviet Russia.
    "If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much room."

    Gambling=a taxation on stupidity.

    Remember, you can walk anywhere, as long as you have the time.

    http://www.ryanmontbleauband.com/

    http://www.myspace.com/jessedee
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    kh65 wrote:
    No. It is called the FREE market and Capitalism. This isn't Soviet Russia.

    LOL...tell that to the subsidy-grubbing oil companies.
  • kh65kh65 Posts: 946
    LOL...tell that to the subsidy-grubbing oil companies.

    Kinda like the agribusinesses getting money from the govt. to grow corn to burn so that the price of food goes up because it is scarce.
    "If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much room."

    Gambling=a taxation on stupidity.

    Remember, you can walk anywhere, as long as you have the time.

    http://www.ryanmontbleauband.com/

    http://www.myspace.com/jessedee
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    kh65 wrote:
    Kinda like the agribusinesses getting money from the govt. to grow corn to burn so that the price of food goes up because it is scarce.

    Absolutely, yes. Do you consider that "FREE market and Capitalism"???
  • kh65kh65 Posts: 946
    Absolutely, yes. Do you consider that "FREE market and Capitalism"???
    Hell no!!! Just remember sometimes the cure is worse than the disease and the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. It ALL comes down to who gives what politicans the most money for their campaigns. THEY ARE ALL CORRUPT. This is why no real leaders run for office, from either party.
    "If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much room."

    Gambling=a taxation on stupidity.

    Remember, you can walk anywhere, as long as you have the time.

    http://www.ryanmontbleauband.com/

    http://www.myspace.com/jessedee
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    kh65 wrote:
    Hell no!!! Just remember sometimes the cure is worse than the disease and the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. It ALL comes down to who gives what politicans the most money for their campaigns. THEY ARE ALL CORRUPT. This is why no real leaders run for office, from either party.

    I'm not suggesting that we "overthrow oil companies". I'm simply suggesting that we stop pretending they're operating in a free market.
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    The President would protect his oil buddies and then declare Marshall Law. Yikes!

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • kh65kh65 Posts: 946
    I'm not suggesting that we "overthrow oil companies". I'm simply suggesting that we stop pretending they're operating in a free market.
    I'm not saying they do either. But they aren't as evil as everyone thinks they are. Hell, there are things beyond their control. What happens when oil drops to $20/barrel every idiot goes out and buys and SVU then when the price jumps they all scream. People need to be responsible for their actions and not look to blame others all the time.
    "If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much room."

    Gambling=a taxation on stupidity.

    Remember, you can walk anywhere, as long as you have the time.

    http://www.ryanmontbleauband.com/

    http://www.myspace.com/jessedee
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    kh65 wrote:
    I'm not saying they do either. But they aren't as evil as everyone thinks they are. Hell, there are things beyond their control. What happens when oil drops to $20/barrel every idiot goes out and buys and SVU then when the price jumps they all scream. People need to be responsible for their actions and not look to blame others all the time.

    I don't disagree with this at all. But just as people need to be responsible for their actions, so do oil companies.
  • SundaySilenceSundaySilence Posts: 536
    I don't disagree with this at all. But just as people need to be responsible for their actions, so do oil companies.

    Their only responsibility is to maximize profits.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    Their only responsibility is to maximize profits.

    This is not an irreducible axiom. Profits, to oil companies, are a positive measure of revenues vis a vis costs. Costs, for oil companies, extend from the challenge of extracting oil from underneath or upon the earth's surface. Revenues, for oil companies, extend from the rewards of serving oil consumers.

    So, to say that an oil company's "only responsibility is to maximize profits" is to say that an oil company must find the ideal balance between extraction costs and serving oil consumers. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that being the primary responsibility of an oil company. In fact, if the primary responsibility of an oil company was something other than that, we'd all be in trouble.
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    This is not an irreducible axiom. Profits, to oil companies, are a positive measure of revenues vis a vis costs. Costs, for oil companies, extend from the challenge of extracting oil from underneath or upon the earth's surface. Revenues, for oil companies, extend from the rewards of serving oil consumers.

    So, to say that an oil company's "only responsibility is to maximize profits" is to say that an oil company must find the ideal balance between extraction costs and serving oil consumers. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that being the primary responsibility of an oil company. In fact, if the primary responsibility of an oil company was something other than that, we'd all be in trouble.


    That was very well written. I get the feeling that some people here think that a oil company is like a one man operation where the CEO finds and pumps the oil himself then refines it and sells it to the gas stations. And when they make these massive profits it all goes in his pocket.

    But in reality oil companies have thousands of employees (so when they maximize profits it benefits these people). Plus they also have thousands of investors including average people with retirement and savings funds (so when they maximize profits these people are able to make money). Plus oil companies pay taxes so when oil companies make more money they pay more taxes and average citizens benefit (a big part of the reason the Canadian economy has been doing so well the last few years is due to oil). So even if oil companies are only out for a profit, going for that profit benefits millions of people.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    That was very well written. I get the feeling that some people here think that a oil company is like a one man operation where the CEO finds and pumps the oil himself then refines it and sells it to the gas stations. And when they make these massive profits it all goes in his pocket.

    But in reality oil companies have thousands of employees (so when they maximize profits it benefits these people). Plus they also have thousands of investors including average people with retirement and savings funds (so when they maximize profits these people are able to make money). Plus oil companies pay taxes so when oil companies make more money they pay more taxes and average citizens benefit (a big part of the reason the Canadian economy has been doing so well the last few years is due to oil). So even if oil companies are only out for a profit, going for that profit benefits millions of people.

    Absolutely. Of course, there's a flip side to this as well. All of those "thousands of people" are likely consumers of oil and suffer when oil prices increase. Furthermore, the "maximization of profits" can lead to environmental damage, monopolizations, and other undesirables.

    Regardless, what really bothers me is that people simply want to focus on some kind of niche or surface issue in regards to this very complex topic, creating false absolutes out of pre-existing biases.
  • SundaySilenceSundaySilence Posts: 536
    This is not an irreducible axiom. Profits, to oil companies, are a positive measure of revenues vis a vis costs. Costs, for oil companies, extend from the challenge of extracting oil from underneath or upon the earth's surface. Revenues, for oil companies, extend from the rewards of serving oil consumers.

    So, to say that an oil company's "only responsibility is to maximize profits" is to say that an oil company must find the ideal balance between extraction costs and serving oil consumers. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that being the primary responsibility of an oil company. In fact, if the primary responsibility of an oil company was something other than that, we'd all be in trouble.

    In addition oil companies subvert science, interfere with markets, lie to our elected representatives, manipulate gasoline supply in anticompetitive practice, and exert disproportionate influence over our government policy.
  • SundaySilenceSundaySilence Posts: 536
    That was very well written. I get the feeling that some people here think that a oil company is like a one man operation where the CEO finds and pumps the oil himself then refines it and sells it to the gas stations. And when they make these massive profits it all goes in his pocket.

    But in reality oil companies have thousands of employees (so when they maximize profits it benefits these people). Plus they also have thousands of investors including average people with retirement and savings funds (so when they maximize profits these people are able to make money). Plus oil companies pay taxes so when oil companies make more money they pay more taxes and average citizens benefit (a big part of the reason the Canadian economy has been doing so well the last few years is due to oil). So even if oil companies are only out for a profit, going for that profit benefits millions of people.

    ...and they don't pay their share of taxes.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    ...and they don't pay their share of taxes.

    LOL...define "their share".
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    In addition oil companies subvert science, interfere with markets, lie to our elected representatives, manipulate gasoline supply in anticompetitive practice, and exert disproportionate influence over our government policy.

    They certainly do. However, they're far from alone in this.
  • kh65kh65 Posts: 946
    ...and they don't pay their share of taxes.
    Would you please state facts and back it up with proof. Any one can say anything, it doesn't mean it is true. (Exhibit A= Bill Clinton).
    "If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much room."

    Gambling=a taxation on stupidity.

    Remember, you can walk anywhere, as long as you have the time.

    http://www.ryanmontbleauband.com/

    http://www.myspace.com/jessedee
  • SundaySilenceSundaySilence Posts: 536
    LOL...define "their share".


    As a result of federal corporate income tax credits and deductions oil companies pay an effective income tax rate of 11%. The non-oil industry average is 18%.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    As a result of federal corporate income tax credits and deductions oil companies pay an effective income tax rate of 11%. The non-oil industry average is 18%.

    You didn't answer my question. Define "their share".
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