Lucid Dreaming

Posts: 10,560
edited April 2007 in A Moving Train
I was reading the religious thread there and see a lot of people talking about lucid dreaming.

I'm wondering what is so interesting about it?

I mean, I don't understand how it ties into religiosity or spirituality.

Anyway here is a different perspective on it for your enjoyment.
conversations on consciousness wrote:
Stephen [LaBerge] originally studied mathematics and chemical physics, before taking a break and then returning to work for a PhD in psychophysiology at Stanford. This included his pioneering work showing that lucid dreams really do take place during REM sleep. Since then he has continue research on lucid dreaming and psychophysiological correlates of states of consciousness at Stanford. In 1988 he founded the Lucidity Institute. His books include Lucid Dreaming (1985) and Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming (1990).

Sue Why is it so difficult to become lucid in a dream, and so difficult once you've become lucid to stay lucid? I often wake up from a really bizarre dream, in which completely impossible and ridiculous things have happened--and I think, 'Why didn't I realize it was a dream?'

Stephen The usual answer is that there's something defective about our minds: there's a failure of higher cognitive function in the dream state--the assumption being that similar bizarre changes would be immediately noticed in the waking state. Of course, recent research on change blindness tells us otherwise. So when a dream character suddenly changes into 'someone else', low-level change detectors cannot compare sensory input to working memory because the system is functioning in the absence of sensory input. The fact that we do sometimes notice and properly interpret anomalies as dream signs shows that higher-order metacognition can be fully compatible with REM sleep. So it's difficult to become lucid for the same reason it's difficult in the waking state to notice anything we're not attending to. Novice lucid dreamers tend to lose their lucidity because they become emotionally involved in the dream events and lose the broader perspective. But that tendency can be overcome with a bit of practice.
Incidentally, we've just finished an experiment with Luis Bunuel's film, That Obscure Object of Desire, that is a propos. Only 25% of some 150 viewers noticed that the central character was played by two different actresses in alternating scenes throughout the movie! Does that sound like what the waking state is supposed to be like? That's the problem, it's not like what people think; and few dream theoreticians take the trouble to do comparisons with the way our consciousness actually works while we're awake.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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  • Posts: 2,440
    I read this post last night before i went to sleep. I thought lucid dreaming sounds really cool but i probably can't do it cause i don't even remember my dreams most of the time.

    so anyway I went to sleep and I started having this dream, and pretty soon into it i realized that i was dreaming and all i can say is WOW....it was awesome...it was like being the director in a movie that i was starring in....ahem...co-starring in

    so yes kiddies it does work...and it's great :)
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
    angels share laughter
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
  • Posts: 2,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I was reading the religious thread there and see a lot of people talking about lucid dreaming.

    I'm wondering what is so interesting about it?

    I mean, I don't understand how it ties into religiosity or spirituality.

    Anyway here is a different perspective on it for your enjoyment.
    I wasn't tying it to religious or spiritual experiences. I don't even think anybody was.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I was reading the religious thread there and see a lot of people talking about lucid dreaming.

    I'm wondering what is so interesting about it?

    I mean, I don't understand how it ties into religiosity or spirituality.

    Anyway here is a different perspective on it for your enjoyment.

    lucid dreaming is great once you learn how to control the events. but lucid dreaming has nothing to do with religious experiences.

    i think you should study the works of edgar cayce for a better understanding of what the mind is capable of.
  • Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    lucid dreaming is great once you learn how to control the events. but lucid dreaming has nothing to do with religious experiences.

    i think you should study the works of edgar cayce for a better understanding of what the mind is capable of.

    I'm pretty familiar with the fantasies the mind is capable of. :p
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 10,560
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    I wasn't tying it to religious or spiritual experiences. I don't even think anybody was.

    Well, it was a religious/spiritual experience thread, so I guess I incorrectly made that inferrence that the content was pertaining to the topic.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 324
    What's it called when you keep having the same recurring dream or dream pattern throughout the night and you wake up every 10-30 minutes but then fall right back asleep and pick up where you left off?

    It's annoying. I don't believe that's lucid because doesn't lucid dreaming happen when you are in a deeper state and is not
    interrupted.

    Correct that so according to the work of LaBerge you are in REM while lucid dreaming.

    I have had deep dreams where I say to myself that this is just a dream and I am going to fall or crash and die and dreams that I do not know that I realize I am dreaming until I fully wake up. Is he stating that with practice I can tell myself it's a dream everytime and control its outcomes?
    "She knows there is no success like failure
    And that failure's no success at all."

    "Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."

    "Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
    A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
  • Posts: 10,560
    gossardstradlin wrote:
    What's it called when you keep having the same recurring dream or dream pattern throughout the night and you wake up every 10-30 minutes but then fall right back asleep and pick up where you left off?

    It's annoying. I don't believe that's lucid because doesn't lucid dreaming happen when you are in a deeper state and is not
    interrupted.

    Correct that so according to the work of LaBerge you are in REM while lucid dreaming.

    I have had deep dreams where I say to myself that this is just a dream and I am going to fall or crash and die and dreams that I do not know that I realize I am dreaming until I fully wake up. Is he stating that with practice I can tell myself it's a dream everytime and control its outcomes?

    Yes, LaBerge is saying that novice lucid dreams lose their lucidity because they become emotionally embedded in their dreams. A lucid dream is a dream when you realize during the dream that it is a dream. I have lucid dreams all the time, almost every time I dream, which dreaming for me is quite rare. What LaBerge says makes sense to me because I do not typically feel emotion in my dreams.

    I believe what you initial described is simply referred to as a recurring dream. I'm not sure though.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 324
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Yes, LaBerge is saying that novice lucid dreams lose their lucidity because they become emotionally embedded in their dreams. A lucid dream is a dream when you realize during the dream that it is a dream. I have lucid dreams all the time, almost every time I dream, which dreaming for me is quite rare. What LaBerge says makes sense to me because I do not typically feel emotion in my dreams.

    I believe what you initial described is simply referred to as a recurring dream. I'm not sure though.

    It's hard to believe that you can be trained or train your mind to control it. I say that because in certain dreams where I do not think to myself "I am dreaming" I feel I am in a deep sleep and kind of on auto pilot. I wake up and feel refreshed but I do not think I have ever thought to myself that I can control it. It seems like when I tell myself it's just a dream that I either wake up or am close to waking up.

    I, like yourself, would be hard pressed to remember a time where I was emotionally involved. Even when I am dreaming and don't realize it I am not exactly fearful of someone in my dream trying to kill me just aware that the person or thing is trying to kill me. Yet I still feel like I am dreaming.

    Interesting how dreams can be and possibly are, still being with continued research, a way into our subconcious and conscious thought but still very mysterious and interpretive.
    "She knows there is no success like failure
    And that failure's no success at all."

    "Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."

    "Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
    A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
  • Posts: 2,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Well, it was a religious/spiritual experience thread, so I guess I incorrectly made that inferrence that the content was pertaining to the topic.
    yeah, i kinda figured someone would've thunk that. i'm into spritual stuff but i've never taken my sleep paralysis or lucid dream as a spiritual experience. i've had other experiences which i interpret as spiritual but they feel very different from lucid dreams or things of that sort.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Posts: 1,263
    I think they're Queensryche fans.
    one foot in the door
    the other foot in the gutter
    sweet smell that they adore
    I think I'd rather smother
    -The Replacements-
  • Posts: 2,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Yes, LaBerge is saying that novice lucid dreams lose their lucidity because they become emotionally embedded in their dreams. A lucid dream is a dream when you realize during the dream that it is a dream. I have lucid dreams all the time, almost every time I dream, which dreaming for me is quite rare. What LaBerge says makes sense to me because I do not typically feel emotion in my dreams.

    I believe what you initial described is simply referred to as a recurring dream. I'm not sure though.
    i've had dreams that contain a very strong emotion to them but then i am telling myself that it is just a dream. then i start dreaming about naked chicks and stuff like that. ;)
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Posts: 10,560
    gossardstradlin wrote:
    It's hard to believe that you can be trained or train your mind to control it. I say that because in certain dreams where I do not think to myself "I am dreaming" I feel I am in a deep sleep and kind of on auto pilot. I wake up and feel refreshed but I do not think I have ever thought to myself that I can control it. It seems like when I tell myself it's just a dream that I either wake up or am close to waking up.

    I, like yourself, would be hard pressed to remember a time where I was emotionally involved. Even when I am dreaming and don't realize it I am not exactly fearful of someone in my dream trying to kill me just aware that the person or thing is trying to kill me. Yet I still feel like I am dreaming.

    Interesting how dreams can be and possibly are, still being with continued research, a way into our subconcious and conscious thought but still very mysterious and interpretive.

    I can do a lot of things in my dreams. If I have a dream and wake up, I can easily go back to it or not if I want. I can sometimes dream up solutions to hard problems, but that's pretty rare. I really don't dream that much though. Only a few times a month that I can remember. I have a problem dreaming about what I want to though. I can't dream about sex. I've had maybe 5 dreams in my life that were sexual. Most of them were interrupted by some space alien or something. I've never had a wet dream. :(
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 10,560
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    i've had dreams that contain a very strong emotion to them but then i am telling myself that it is just a dream. then i start dreaming about naked chicks and stuff like that. ;)

    It must be nice! ;)
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I'm pretty familiar with the fantasies the mind is capable of. :p

    i didn't think the countless volumes of data would be believavle to you. you only believe what you want no matter how much evidence is presented.
  • Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    i didn't think the countless volumes of data would be believavle to you. you only believe what you want no matter how much evidence is presented.


    You believe anything that is comforting to you. I'm just a bit more sceptical
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    You believe anything that is comforting to you. I'm just a bit more sceptical

    the man cured thousands of people. what more do you want? you're science can't explain it but it's there in black and white.
  • Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    the man cured thousands of people. what more do you want? you're science can't explain it but it's there in black and white.

    Which man?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Which man?


    edgar cayce
  • Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    edgar cayce

    I've never heard of him. Obviously he didn't do what he claims to do.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Posts: 10,560
    http://shoutfile.com/v/E8Rs7x3z/Michael_Shermer_-_Why_People_Believe_Weird_Things
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire

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