Lucid Dreaming
Ahnimus
Posts: 10,560
I was reading the religious thread there and see a lot of people talking about lucid dreaming.
I'm wondering what is so interesting about it?
I mean, I don't understand how it ties into religiosity or spirituality.
Anyway here is a different perspective on it for your enjoyment.
I'm wondering what is so interesting about it?
I mean, I don't understand how it ties into religiosity or spirituality.
Anyway here is a different perspective on it for your enjoyment.
Stephen [LaBerge] originally studied mathematics and chemical physics, before taking a break and then returning to work for a PhD in psychophysiology at Stanford. This included his pioneering work showing that lucid dreams really do take place during REM sleep. Since then he has continue research on lucid dreaming and psychophysiological correlates of states of consciousness at Stanford. In 1988 he founded the Lucidity Institute. His books include Lucid Dreaming (1985) and Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming (1990).
Sue Why is it so difficult to become lucid in a dream, and so difficult once you've become lucid to stay lucid? I often wake up from a really bizarre dream, in which completely impossible and ridiculous things have happened--and I think, 'Why didn't I realize it was a dream?'
Stephen The usual answer is that there's something defective about our minds: there's a failure of higher cognitive function in the dream state--the assumption being that similar bizarre changes would be immediately noticed in the waking state. Of course, recent research on change blindness tells us otherwise. So when a dream character suddenly changes into 'someone else', low-level change detectors cannot compare sensory input to working memory because the system is functioning in the absence of sensory input. The fact that we do sometimes notice and properly interpret anomalies as dream signs shows that higher-order metacognition can be fully compatible with REM sleep. So it's difficult to become lucid for the same reason it's difficult in the waking state to notice anything we're not attending to. Novice lucid dreamers tend to lose their lucidity because they become emotionally involved in the dream events and lose the broader perspective. But that tendency can be overcome with a bit of practice.
Incidentally, we've just finished an experiment with Luis Bunuel's film, That Obscure Object of Desire, that is a propos. Only 25% of some 150 viewers noticed that the central character was played by two different actresses in alternating scenes throughout the movie! Does that sound like what the waking state is supposed to be like? That's the problem, it's not like what people think; and few dream theoreticians take the trouble to do comparisons with the way our consciousness actually works while we're awake.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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so anyway I went to sleep and I started having this dream, and pretty soon into it i realized that i was dreaming and all i can say is WOW....it was awesome...it was like being the director in a movie that i was starring in....ahem...co-starring in
so yes kiddies it does work...and it's great
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
lucid dreaming is great once you learn how to control the events. but lucid dreaming has nothing to do with religious experiences.
i think you should study the works of edgar cayce for a better understanding of what the mind is capable of.
I'm pretty familiar with the fantasies the mind is capable of.
Well, it was a religious/spiritual experience thread, so I guess I incorrectly made that inferrence that the content was pertaining to the topic.
It's annoying. I don't believe that's lucid because doesn't lucid dreaming happen when you are in a deeper state and is not
interrupted.
Correct that so according to the work of LaBerge you are in REM while lucid dreaming.
I have had deep dreams where I say to myself that this is just a dream and I am going to fall or crash and die and dreams that I do not know that I realize I am dreaming until I fully wake up. Is he stating that with practice I can tell myself it's a dream everytime and control its outcomes?
And that failure's no success at all."
"Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."
"Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
Yes, LaBerge is saying that novice lucid dreams lose their lucidity because they become emotionally embedded in their dreams. A lucid dream is a dream when you realize during the dream that it is a dream. I have lucid dreams all the time, almost every time I dream, which dreaming for me is quite rare. What LaBerge says makes sense to me because I do not typically feel emotion in my dreams.
I believe what you initial described is simply referred to as a recurring dream. I'm not sure though.
It's hard to believe that you can be trained or train your mind to control it. I say that because in certain dreams where I do not think to myself "I am dreaming" I feel I am in a deep sleep and kind of on auto pilot. I wake up and feel refreshed but I do not think I have ever thought to myself that I can control it. It seems like when I tell myself it's just a dream that I either wake up or am close to waking up.
I, like yourself, would be hard pressed to remember a time where I was emotionally involved. Even when I am dreaming and don't realize it I am not exactly fearful of someone in my dream trying to kill me just aware that the person or thing is trying to kill me. Yet I still feel like I am dreaming.
Interesting how dreams can be and possibly are, still being with continued research, a way into our subconcious and conscious thought but still very mysterious and interpretive.
And that failure's no success at all."
"Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."
"Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
I can do a lot of things in my dreams. If I have a dream and wake up, I can easily go back to it or not if I want. I can sometimes dream up solutions to hard problems, but that's pretty rare. I really don't dream that much though. Only a few times a month that I can remember. I have a problem dreaming about what I want to though. I can't dream about sex. I've had maybe 5 dreams in my life that were sexual. Most of them were interrupted by some space alien or something. I've never had a wet dream. :(
It must be nice!
i didn't think the countless volumes of data would be believavle to you. you only believe what you want no matter how much evidence is presented.
You believe anything that is comforting to you. I'm just a bit more sceptical
the man cured thousands of people. what more do you want? you're science can't explain it but it's there in black and white.
Which man?
edgar cayce
I've never heard of him. Obviously he didn't do what he claims to do.
you've never heard of his hospital or his works? are you kidding? do you live in a box? you can find a lot of websites but they add a lot of hype. the history channel runs a good special about his life that doesn't go overboard. it's a straight biography with only the facts.
I looked him up.
Michael Shermer writes in Why People Believe Weird Things, "Uneducated beyond the ninth grade, Cayce acquired his broad knowledge through voracious reading and from this he wove elaborate tales."[1] Furthermore, "Cayce was fantasy-prone from his youth, often talking with angels and receiving visions of his dead grandfather."[2] Shermer further cites James Randi as noting "Cayce was fond of expressions like 'I feel that' and 'perhaps' -- qualifying words used to avoid positive declarations."[3] Shermer also explains that methods used at the institution operated by Cayce's followers shows their ESP experiments have no statistical difference from chance.[4]
i gave you an unbiased source for information. shermer doesn't explain away the people cured nor his ability to instruct surgeons how to perform surgeries unknown at the time. without any medical training. all these are documented and available to the public. cayce didn't read books; he put them under his pillow and slept on them. until someone can discount the stenographed evidence; it remains unexplained.
That's all anecdotal evidence.
Why are you so eager to may assumptions about it?
Besides, since many spiritual experiences are akin to altered states of consciousness, it isn't that much of a leap to start talking about dreaming.
But I dont think anyone was really saying it was a spiritual experience per se.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
thanks dan.
there have been occasions where i've lost a dream and been able to get it back by changing my sleeping position until it came back into transmission so to speak.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I'm not but in the absence of true knowledge, I prefer to have no knowledge at all.